What would you do if you were Lyanna's sibling?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Funny how all the female posters so far have chosen to hate her.

Gender dividing? I am calling :bs:

Is it just my sleep-deprived brain acting up, or does that sound like a huge, reversed, step-mom Oedipus complex?

It is just you. I used exactly the quote from the OP.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Gender dividing? I am calling :bs:

It was just an observation. No need to call the Feminist Gender Discrimination First Responders Squad.

It is just you. I used exactly the quote from the OP.

So, you, being his Queen Consort, would also pass him as your son?

That's some Targaryen-level marital policy.

[Kiporman]

Funny how all the female posters so far have chosen to hate her.

Is it just my sleep-deprived brain acting up, or does that sound like a huge, reversed, step-mom Oedipus complex?

I have a particular mind-set of "Not pissing off an woman" mostly because of things like that. It is surprising, honestly; I always thought men were more violent and unforgiving, yet I surprise myself time and time again by seeing many women acting this way. Not that I'm against it - in fact, I share similar views - but... man, women here are scary. I like 'em!

Also, I don't have the slighest fuckin' idea of what Oedipus complex is, so no comment about that.

And... guess I never said what I would think, do (with her son) and do (with her), right?

Think:

I would be pissed. Very, very pissed. I would break things around, I would yell at her, hell, I could even see myself hitting her once or twice in anger, confusion and frustation for all the hell that broke loose because of her. I doubt I would ever forgive her, no matter how many years passed, and I would probably be bitter and resentful of her for my whole life. Nevertheless, if/when she died, I believe I would still have been hurt for her death, since she was still, in the end, my sister. Probably not as much as if this whole thing never happened, but, yeah;

Do to her son:

Not gonna lie, I would probably initially vote to kill him so as to put an end to everything; put an end to Rhaegar, put an end to Aerys, put an end to the Targaryens, put an end to the war. But that is only how I would react at the moment, I guess. Once I managed to become calm again and thought about things, I would take the baby with me and tell Ned to say that I died with the others. I would take the baby to the Free Cities with me and would raise him there as my son, never telling him his true lineage. I would also make sure to leave prepations in case I died, so that he could go to Westeros and find Uncle Ned, but I probably would never have led him close to Lyanna, bitter as I would be by all she did.

Do to her:

I would not care. Just not. Bitter and angry as I would be, the only thing I would make sure of is that she had no contact with her children, both to hurt her and to keep the children safe, as in my opinion, she could in no way raise that children after all that happened. Nevertheless, I would not care if she married Robert, lived with Ned or went to the Free Cities.

[Tywin Manderly]

What do you think of her?

A naive and clueless child-woman who did not do her duty and whose running off led to a war that claimed tens of thousands of lives.

What do you do with her son?

What do you do with her?

I would send the both of them to the Free Cities, to start a new life over there since living in the Seven Kingdoms is out of the question for the both of them.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

So, you, being his Queen Consort, would also pass him as your son?

That's some Targaryen-level marital policy.

Wut?

[Kiporman]

Wut?

I figured it out.

Oedipus is having sexual desire for a parent. A child who loves/desires his father/mother would be a case, for example.

Your name is "Jon's Queen Consort", which means you're his wife.

Lyanna is Jon's mother.

Taking him as your son, Jon would be your bastard, at least in the eyes of people.

Which means that you are Jon's mother, but still desires him.

... I'm mostly sure that is a joke, though.

[Roddy the Ruin]

I figured it out.

Oedipus is having sexual desire for a parent. A child who loves/desires his father/mother would be a case, for example.

Your name is "Jon's Queen Consort", which means you're his wife.

Lyanna is Jon's mother.

Taking him as your son, Jon would be your bastard, at least in the eyes of people.

Which means that you are Jon's mother, but still desires him.

... I'm mostly sure that is a joke, though.

dude, I've already made a thread on Jon's total Oedipus Complex. People don't take kindly to it.

[Viserys - The last dragon]

"What do you think of her":

My thoughts about her does not change. She had NO way of knowing the consequences (I believe everyone who believes that she should be able too, is not able to put themselves in her perspective). She could not know that Brandon would go to KG, and that the mad King would kill him and her (/my) father. Of course I get a little bit upset because she did not "follow her duty", but its quite hard for me to put myself in that mindset/ situation, since obviously now everyone makes up their own mind for who they are going to marry..- But I suppose I would get a little bit upset, but not much.

"What do you do with her son":

Very interesting question. The wise move would be to do the same as Eddard. But I know myself. I am not always so wise in situation where I get angry, or in a posistion of principal. I often makes a stand for the sake of principal, without thinking through the consequences. So I suppose I would declare to the world that it was her and Rhaegar son. Going out of the assumption that he is a bastard I would bring him back home with me and raise him with my children. If he was not a bastard, and Lyanna and Rhaegar somehow married, I would probably try and talk to Robert and make him regent until Lyannas son came of age- or I would perhaps just still bring him back home and raise him without trying to place him on the throne. If I do choose to try and make him king I would probably threaten do go to war (again with the "taking a stand" issue of mine) to get him there. But if I choose to keep him and raise him, after I have declared him as the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, I would probably try and place him on the throne if I came to the conclusion that Robert was a terrible king.

"What would you do with her":

Okay, out of the assumption that she is alive, I would not send her away (if it was not needed to save her live). She is my sister, and I hope I love her, and therefor I would keep her close.

I would of course not give her back to Robert, if she did not wish so (but again, hard to place myself in such a situation, since it was normal that women and men got married off against their will).

"What would you do"?

All I could for her and her child. Maybe not the best thing, again I could put them both in danger since I could do something quick and stupid out of principles, but I would probably be willing to die for them. Family is important in the Stark family, and family has always been very important for me and in my family in "real life" too.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I figured it out.

Oedipus is having sexual desire for a parent. A child who loves/desires his father/mother would be a case, for example.

Your name is "Jon's Queen Consort", which means you're his wife.

Lyanna is Jon's mother.

Taking him as your son, Jon would be your bastard, at least in the eyes of people.

Which means that you are Jon's mother, but still desires him.

... I'm mostly sure that is a joke, though.

I see :bang: :bang: :bang:

dude, I've already made a thread on Jon's total Oedipus Complex. People don't take kindly to it.

Please don't.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Wut?

What Kiporman said.

I see :bang: :bang: :bang:

And yes, it was a joke. :)

A poorly crafted one, perhaps, but still a joke. :D

[Roddy the Ruin]

I would do anything to save my sister if she was being raped (or at least if I thought she was being raped) I would rescue her or try and kill the man responsible. Brandon was stupid, no question, but he was doing what any brother who loves their sister would do. Love makes people stupid.

[Wmarshal]

I would do a Brandon , but if I am in Winterfell a Robb, rally the army, and gut Rhaegar.

[Kiporman]

I would do anything to save my sister if she was being raped (or at least if I thought she was being raped) I would rescue her or try and kill the man responsible. Brandon was stupid, no question, but he was doing what any brother who loves their sister would do. Love makes people stupid.

I have to say, I agree with this in many levels.

Brandon was stupid, yes. He was hotheaded, impulsive, and he didn't think straight.

However, if there is one redeeming quality for him, is that he loved his family. He went out of his way to give Ned a dance with his crush, just as he went in rage to KL as soon as he heard the news about Lyanna.

... Which is, frankly, why I don't like the turn Martin is taking, making it seems like Brandon went after Ashara after he introduced her to Ned. it just turns him from "brother who was older, more handsome and better warrior, who was hotheaded and impulsive, but cared deeply for his family" to "brother who was older, more handsome and better warrior, and was capable of being a dick to his family to get laid". That really dissapoints me.

But, this is for another topic, I guess.

[Wmarshal]

I have to say, I agree with this in many levels.

Brandon was stupid, yes. He was hotheaded, impulsive, and he didn't think straight.

However, if there is one redeeming quality for him, is that he loved his family. He went out of his way to give Ned a dance with his crush, just as he went in rage to KL as soon as he heard the news about Lyanna.

... Which is, frankly, why I don't like the turn Martin is taking, making it seems like Brandon went after Ashara after he introduced her to Ned. it just turns him from "brother who was older, more handsome and better warrior, who was hotheaded and impulsive, but cared deeply for his family" to "brother who was older, more handsome and better warrior, and was capable of being a dick to his family to get laid". That really dissapoints me.

But, this is for another topic, I guess.

It could be the other way around, Ashara and Brandon seeing each other and he asked his girl to dance with his lonely brother, he may not have known Ned had deep love her and what the dance meant to him. I doubt he did that to be a dick.

[Kiporman]

It could be the other way around, Ashara and Brandon seeing each other and he asked his girl to dance with his lonely brother, he may not have known Ned had deep love her and what the dance meant to him. I doubt he did that to be a dick.

Yes, it could be this, I guess. Is just that, since I read Dance With Dragons, I always have it in my mind that he introduced her to Ned being genuinely kind, like, he thought that Ned could have a chance with her or something, or he was just doing his younger brother a favor. But then he changed his mind, and being used to taking what he wants (as Barbrey said), he went and slept with Ashara. This got her pregnant, and when she turned to him he could not offer her anything, since he was betrothed to Catelyn. That made Ned be the one to confort her, and so and so fort. Which means that, in a way, I figure the story ocurred somewhat similar to what we have in mind (Ned and Ashara had a thing because of Brandon, yadda yadda), but not exactly the way we imagined.

My biggest problem is, frankly, that the last book seems to set it up in a way that makes Brandon more of a dick, y'know? The "took what he wanted" line, for example, make it seems that he did whatever he pleased, not caring how this would affect others. I hope that is not the case, but it seems likely to me.

Anyway, best to let this rest for now, otherwise we may end derailing this topic a little. I think I may create another topic to discuss this in particular, but I'm not sure yet. Maybe.

[Dicer]

What do you think of her?

D. She is a selfish, arrogant, ignorant and stupid brat who thinks that she is better than everyone.

What do you do with her?

C.Hand her over to Robert, as his wife by right.

or

D. Cut her tongue and send her to silent sisters.

Jeezus!

The poor girl did not want to spend the rest of her life with an asshole like Robert. She loved someone else and eloped with that someone (I am assuming). Is that a crime deserving of such punishments?

Sure, the unintended consequences were far reaching and led to a lot of death and destruction. Sure the way they did it was stupid, selfish and childish (I mostly blame Rhaegar for this). But I don't think Lyanna should be consigned to the seven hells for what she did. (And giving her to Robert would have been hell for her).

It's telling that Jaime has a fanclub even though he continued an adulterous affair with his sister in his thirties. Of course over there, Cersei is blamed for everything.

[Kiporman]

Jeezus!

The poor girl did not want to spend the rest of her life with an asshole like Robert. She loved someone else and eloped with that someone (I am assuming). Is that a crime deserving of such punishments? Is this the medieval age?

Sure, the consequences were far reaching and led to a lot of death and destruction. Sure it was stupid, selfish and childish. But I don't think Lyanna should be consigned to the seven hells for what she did. (And giving her to Robert would have been hell for her).

It's telling that Jaime has a fanclub even though he continued an adulterous affair with his sister in his thirties. Of course over there, Cersei is blamed for everything.

Err... not gonna enter in detail here or really argue with you, but... well, I kinda created this topic with the intent of seeing how people would react to that situation. To put yourself in that situation means that you have to put yourself in Westeros, and that means, per se, that the laws and morals of Westeros would be active at this point. Which... kinda puts you in the medieval age, I guess.

[Dicer]

Err... not gonna enter in detail here or really argue with you, but... well, I kinda created this topic with the intent of seeing how people would react to that situation. To put yourself in that situation means that you have to put yourself in Westeros, and that means, per se, that the laws and morals of Westeros would be active at this point. Which... kinda puts you in the medieval age, I guess.

Yeah, I edited my post. But the sentiment still stands.

[KING-OF-WINTERFELL]

Jeezus!

The poor girl did not want to spend the rest of her life with an asshole like Robert. She loved someone else and eloped with that someone (I am assuming). Is that a crime deserving of such punishments?

Sure, the unintended consequences were far reaching and led to a lot of death and destruction. Sure the way they did it was stupid, selfish and childish (I mostly blame Rhaegar for this). But I don't think Lyanna should be consigned to the seven hells for what she did. (And giving her to Robert would have been hell for her).

It's telling that Jaime has a fanclub even though he continued an adulterous affair with his sister in his thirties. Of course over there, Cersei is blamed for everything.

From a modern point of view :agree:

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Jeezus!

You do know that there is something that is called "personal opinion" right?

The poor girl did not want to spend the rest of her life with an asshole like Robert. She loved someone else and eloped with that someone (I am assuming). Is that a crime deserving of such punishments?

Do you have the books about how Robert would be if Lyanna wasn't an a@@@? Can I borrow them?

Sure, the unintended consequences were far reaching and led to a lot of death and destruction. Sure the way they did it was stupid, selfish and childish (I mostly blame Rhaegar for this). But I don't think Lyanna should be consigned to the seven hells for what she did. (And giving her to Robert would have been hell for her).

Sure in a society like GRRTH everyone could say f@@@ off to their duties because they felt like it. But let me ask you, what would happened then? My first choice was to killed her like a traitor but kinslaying is not cool, maybe made someone else kill her would be a choice.

It's telling that Jaime has a fanclub even though he continued an adulterous affair with his sister in his thirties. Of course over there, Cersei is blamed for everything.

Bollocks.