Jon Snow: Azor Ahai Reborn, the prince that was promised, or the Champion of the Great Other

[Paaarostegui]

Hey guys, I've been wondering what will happen with Jon Snow. I've been searching about theories that involve him and his fate and I have encountered really interesting theories:

One of the most interesting theories in my opinion was Jon being revived by Melisandre by making a ritual similar to the ritual Daenerys did. Sacrificing his direwolf Ghost in order to bring him back to life. After that, he would join Daenerys, mount Rhaegal or Viserion, and defeat the others.

The other theory contradicts this. The other theory included Jon Snow reviving but not as a human, but as an other. The theory stated that Jon Snow will lead the others with an ice dragon (the ice dragon hatching from the wall) against Daenerys and her dragons, full-filling the prophecy of being the promised prince since he can understand both humans and white walkers (the others). This theory views Azor Ahai as Daenerys and Jon Snow as the champion of the great other, as well as the promised prince.

So what do you think? What will George RR Martin probably do? I personally like the first one but I can't say.

[Hutch]

There's also the one about sacrificing Shireen to bring him back (kings blood and all that).

The one of him living on through Ghost.

One about him becoming the Night King.

Or, even that he's just dead.

Personally, I have no idea. I do look forward to finding out though.

[Paaarostegui]

There's also the one about sacrificing Shireen to bring him back (kings blood and all that).

The one of him living on through Ghost.

One about him becoming the Night King.

Or, even that he's just dead.

Personally, I have no idea. I do look forward to finding out though.

Hehe sorry, yeah there are a lot of theories out there. I guess those where the ones that impacted me the most hehe. Which one would you like to read though?

[The hairy bear]

This subforum is to discuss "The World of Ice and Fire" upcoming books. Please refrain to discuss other topics here, and address them in the general section. :)

[Crimsonsmile]

When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt.

Maybe the star is house Thenn because the sigil of house Thenn echoes the sunburst of house Carstark. Which also happens to be a tribute to R'hllor not to mention that it signifies a great change taking place, seeing as how it's new house built to maintain a new truce. In short the sun is a star, their sigil is red, and when the Thenns bleed I think we'll see something very interesting.

[The Sea Snake]

Can't anyone remember Beric Dondarion? UnCat?

Nobody needs to be sacrificed for Jon to be brought back. Mel can give him the kiss of life. She seems more powerful than Thoros of Myr to me.. and if he could do it...

So if Jon is to be revived it would be through this method

UnJon

[Nite's King]

Jon is not the Night's King. He is definitely Azor Ahai reborn (or will be shortly). Remember his dream of being covered in black ice and a red sword blazing bright in his hand?

[Paaarostegui]

When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt.

Maybe the star is house Thenn because the sigil of house Thenn echoes the sunburst of house Carstark. Which also happens to be a tribute to R'hllor not to mention that it signifies a great change taking place, seeing as how it's new house built to maintain a new truce. In short the sun is a star, their sigil is red, and when the Thenns bleed I think we'll see something very interesting.

So are you saying the Thenns have a special connection with Jon being Azor Ahai, or that they have Azor Ahai among them?

Can't anyone remember Beric Dondarion? UnCat?

Nobody needs to be sacrificed for Jon to be brought back. Mel can give him the kiss of life. She seems more powerful than Thoros of Myr to me.. and if he could do it...

So if Jon is to be revived it would be through this method

UnJon

I have thought of that, but I don't think George RR Martin is going to do that, since he has already revived Beric and UnCat through that way, so I doubt that he will repeat the same dynamic. But who knows?

[Crimsonsmile]

So are you saying the Thenns have a special connection with Jon being Azor Ahai, or that they have Azor Ahai among them?

I have thought of that, but I don't think George RR Martin is going to do that, since he has already revived Beric and UnCat through that way, so I doubt that he will repeat the same dynamic. But who knows?

I think it's well within reason that this could very well be a possibility, though the prophecy may be subjective as it can be interpreted in numerous ways. As I said, I think something might happen though I could be wrong. Anyways at least HBO knows how it's going to end and that's :cool4: with me.

[sj4iy]

I just don't see Jon becoming an Other and leading. It looks like we've seen the Night's King already, and that is not Jon. We have a lot of storyline left for Jon, which would become pointless if he were undead, and all of the prophecies and dreams surrounding him hint that he will be fighting the Others, and not leading them.

[Benjamin F. Case]

Melissandre is going to take Jon Snow's body after Ghost(Jon) finds her and she discovers his death. She along with Grenn and Donal Noye will transport Jon's cold body to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. Then they will travel to Dragonstone and Jon will be reborn as Azor Ahai in the volcano.

He might also go on to mount one of Dany's Dragons, perhaps Viserion, only seems likely if he is in the Narrow Sea at the same time as the dragons though.

[Crimsonsmile]

I have another theory since a prophecy is subjective and functions similar to that of a domino effect. A star has to bleed than darkness has to gather in order for Azhor Ahai to be reborn, and all in that order. The star can be any number of things but here's my theory. In order for a prince to arise one has to die. Therefore Prince Oberyn whose sigil happens to be sun which could be taken for a star, dies thus creating a bloody star. Winter is coming a long running theme has arrived or the white walkers invasion take your pick than a prince shall be reborn. Now we don't know who the New Prince is but it's heavily implied that Jon snow a.k.a the brooding bastard is said prince.

Red star is most likely the comet as it heralded the resurrection of dragons while the darkness is heralding the re emergence of the white walkers.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Jon is the king of the Others.

[JLE]

My view is:

A lot of the prophecies are wrong, or misunderstood.

Stannis is the Azor Ahai equivalent - NOT the Last Hero, but the one who will be faced with a fateful choice that his predecessor (the original Azor Ahai) got wrong. Azor Ahai killed his wife, allegedly to empower his sword Lightbringer. Azor Ahai fought bravely against the Others, and drove them back... TEMPORARILY. In other words, he failed. They're back. The modern day Azor Ahai will be one who *saves* what he loves most, at the cost of his own life, and in doing so does not seize the power to become the hero himself, but empowers the sword for ANOTHER to wield, by his own sacrifice. I think the Modern AA - Azor Ahai Gets It Right This Time Round - will be Stannis saving Shireen from Melisandre attempting to burn her, having run out of other sources of kings' blood to do magic on, and he will do it by taking what was to have been her place in the fire.

Jon will be a "Reborn" though - Last Hero Reborn, returned from death. The one who takes up the flaming sword that it cost a life to empower. His return to life from death must be paid for by another, done "the right way" because "only death can pay for life": other people have come back the "wrong" way, without the proper price being paid, but if the world is to be saved, and if someone is to be "reborn" in the sense of coming back from death, they must do it the right way, not by a cheat.

"Two kings to wake the dragon", Melisandre said: and two kings it shall be - not kings who sit their thrones, but kings who are in exile. Stannis, the claimant to Robert's throne in the south: and still with him will be Theon, the only man or woman who can lawfully gainsay Euron's victory at the kingsmoot by virtue of having not been present to make his own claim. Neither is in position to actually sit the thrones that could be claimed for them, nor even realistically to challenge for them yet, but their right to make that challenge cannot be denied. Theon will be spared (possibly as a result of the tree and ravens talking back) until the right moment. And the dragon is Jon - not a dragon as a beast or warg, but a dragon because he is the (bastard) son of Rhaegar. The question of his legitimacy (for the throne) is not important in this case - and he may indeed still continue to regard himself as illegitimate - but the question of his bloodline (actual parentage, whether legitimate or not) certainly is.

Stannis's Lightbringer is not YET the real thing, but will become it as a result of this, and Jon will be its wielder.

Stannis, the unbeliever in religion although he believes in making use of Melisandre's powers,, has previously been granted one vision in the flames: he saw a vision of a king with a crown of flame, burning away to ash. I think he will be that king, and possibly of his own free will, if he becomes convinced that some kind of magical ritual involving the death of a king or burning of royal blood is necessary, and is faced with the alternative of murdering his own daughter - the Nissa-Nissa equivalent.

Meanwhile, he will beat the Boltons by rather more conventional means. Warned by Theon that Ramsay is coming, and "you do not know him", he has replied "no more than he knows me": he intends to take advantage of the fact that neither knows the other, by means of some trick involving an impostor, possibly faking his own death (he hints that an announcement of his death is expected, and it "may be true", also implying that it may not be. Ramsay is no general, therefore he is not coming with his own army: it would be pointless for him to come with the Freys, who have no hope of survival by surrendering, and will be massacred to the last man whether it is Stannis's forces or the Manderlys who do it: therefore Ramsay, as a specialist in treachery and posing as a friend, must be hiding in disguise among the Manderlys, who may surrender and may even try to defect. (Wyman, back in Winterfell, is a useless hostage against his son's behaviour: if Wyman dies, Wylis becomes lord, and is free and outside Winterfell. Wyman may even poison himself the moment Wylis and his men are outside the castle.) Since Stannis does not know Ramsay, he may rely on Ramsay not knowing him as well, in the hope that Ramsay will reveal himself by attempting to assassinate the man Stannis sets up as an impostor. Stannis hopes to catch Ramsay in the act, possibly save his "body double" and capture Ramsay: however, uncovering Ramsay's disguise by sacrificing whichever soldier looks most like him would be a good second option even if Ramsay escapes.

I believe in fact that Ramsay has already successfully done this, stolen the red sword, and escaped from the camp with the help of what he believes to be the Boltons' traitors in the camp, i.e. the Karstark army, and thus returned home thinking himself successful, and written the infamous Pink Letter... however, since the Karstark treachery is now known to Stannis, the men who help Ramsay escape will be Stannis's own northern supporters in Karstark colours, taken back inside Winterfell to open the gates from the inside when the real Stannis comes calling with the rest of his army.

In any case: Jon will be returned to true life, the debt to the Stranger properly paid by the fact that at least one other has died of their own free will to restore life to him, and he will wield the flaming Lightbringer and drive back the Others. Whether he lives or dies in the attempt, and whether there is still a Watch to follow him during or afterwards, is not clear, but he will be successful and it will be for permanent.

At some point in this he and Dany will end up on the same side - but NOT as lovers, since Jon by now will know his heritage, and he will have proper scruples against incest - and the last of the Dragons will be destroyed along with the last of the Others. Whether Dany *or* Jon survives the last battle will not be clear, but afterwards the world will have neither Dragons nor Others: and neither ice nor fire will threaten the end of the world again.

[JLE]

I think it's a very important thing that Beric and Catelyn were brought back "wrong" - in Beric's case, the proper price ("only death can pay for life") was not paid at all, and multiple times over, and the first time was even by accident: so when Catelyn came back and Beric paid the price, the price was itself paid in false coin. Thoros knows it to be wrong: the fact that this is even possible is a symptom of a far greater wrong with the world, right down at the roots of life, death, existence and magic. Almost certainly connected with an ancient attempt to cheat death or live forever. Whether "Night's King" - the one who was the 13th Commander of the Watch - is connected with this, seems possible, although if so, he was not the first, if he was after the building of the Wall but the Others came before its building.

(In which, also, Bloodraven - in having started out as honestly investigating the problem with the world - has now stretched his life beyond his natural lifespan to the point at which he may not even be able to die even if he wants to: in short, he's become part of the problem himself. Whether he is trying to seize Bran's power for himself, or build Bran up to replace him and "take on the burden" and allow Bloodraven to finally die, who can tell? Perhaps even he himself does not know. However I would bet that the last chapter of the last book will be Bran himself letting go and dying: he is already on borrowed time himself - borrowed in his case from his wolf: while he was in a coma from his fall, it was noted that the wolf's howling seemed to be the only thing keeping him alive. Bran is himself on borrowed time: in the end, he too must die. For there to be an ending that does not risk the return of the Others at a later date, the Stranger must have his due.)

Jon will come back, but the price that is paid will be the true one, not a false one, and certainly not no price at all.

I also think that Jon needn't necessarily die right now - he may be critically injured, hover on the border between life and death for some while in a coma, but will eventually truly die. However, the question "will he die or not" may run for a few in-book days or weeks worth of chapters, allowing for his timeline (as seen by Melisandre now) to catch up to Stannis's (as seen by Theon and Asha).

However, for plot purposes I think it is necessary for him to actually die: and I also believe that it is necessary on at least one occasion for the true price, "only death can pay for life", to be paid for bringing someone back from the dead to true life, and Jon will be that person.

[JonSnowWASrapedByAlliser]

Jon riding an ice dragon around is just cheesy as heck to me. I pray nothing so dramatic ever happens to his character. Azor Ahai Reborn is cheesy enough, with the flaming Lightbringer and the chosen one who destroys the army of darkness. The whole prophecy is cheesy and it is exactly what GRRM is trying to deconstruct with his series. I don't think any such thing will happen.

I do think Jon will discover some humanity or purpose within the objectives of the Others and will speak for them, by the end. From the beginning, GRRM has been writing characters who villify the others. They are straight up demons from a cold hell who have no redeemable values. Think of ASOIAF, how it deconstructs such black and white, high fantasy notions. GRRM is throwing us a curve ball about the Others and their intentions and their role in the story will be pleasantly original, I think.

No battle for the darkness or dawn. No humanity vs. the cold. Something better.

[Jon Ahai Targeryan]

this is a classic good vs evil,jon can never become like the whitewalkers as i understand there are very few of them as per the "Oathkeeper" episode hence can only be a wright which is unlikely as the Nights Watch burn their dead.Also bran and bloodraven cannot be servants of the other since the others and their wrigts cannot enter the cave they currently are in and asi understand the goal of the Others is endless winter then y would bran help them destroy life and he and bloodraven be the only humans left ?? it simply doesnt add up.our knowkedge of the Others basically comes from an incompitent fire priestess despite her power