Pijack the Burner Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 is actually, really, dead? No fancy resurrection, no AA reborn, no prince that was promised, no surviving god knows how many stabs. Just dead. Do you think GRRM wants us to believe he was not dead, only to show us he actually is very dead, and that AA will be someone else? Or do you think Jon is way too valuable for the Others war going on in the next books? Personally, I don't want him to be dead, because he was my favorite character. However, I think that's what Martin will end up doing So, what do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Then it's a lot of time wasted on his arc, which hasn't even come close to being completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Well that would suck. All that time we've been reading about this guy and he's killed off in a way that doesn't seem likely to advance the plot? Who would be in charge at the Wall? His murderers would be lucky to survive long enough to go to trial, so none of them. Would Edd take over? By the way, he doesn't have to have any kind of resurrection if he's not dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanless Mace Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 No. I don't believe for one second that Jon is dead and that that is the end of his arc. Not for one second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hielo y Fuego Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The only way I see this happening is if Jon's dead causes such chaos around the Wall (let's face it, the Wildlings will go apeshit on Marsh and his co-conspirator's arses) that it somehow leaves the doors wide open for the Others' imminent invasion. This in turn, would lead to all hell breaking loose in Westeros as the WWs march on the 7Ks unimpeded. Other than that, his dead makes no sense from a storytelling perspective. It doesn't help to move the plot forward and his usefulness is certainly not spent, which are the 2 most important reasons (if not the only reasons) why authors kill off their characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Wolf Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Jon's death could push the plot forward. Now that the men of the NW no longer stand true since they murdered him, the Others could pass the Wall. But no, I do not believe Jon is dead. I also find it interesting that Martin chose to have Maester Aemon leave the Wall and not be on hand to take care of Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obebb Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 If Jon is dead, then no other character is safe from the same fate. Maybe Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jaime Lannister Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Well that would suck. All that time we've been reading about this guy and he's killed off in a way that doesn't seem likely to advance the plot? Who would be in charge at the Wall? His murderers would be lucky to survive long enough to go to trial, so none of them. Would Edd take over? By the way, he doesn't have to have any kind of resurrection if he's not dead. Lead me to thinking this.... The only way I see this happening is if Jon's dead causes such chaos around the Wall (let's face it, the Wildlings will go apeshit on Marsh and his co-conspirator's arses) that it somehow leaves the doors wide open for the Others' imminent invasion. This in turn, would lead to all hell breaking loose in Westeros as the WWs march on the 7Ks unimpeded. Other than that, his dead makes no sense from a storytelling perspective. It doesn't help to move the plot forward and his usefulness is certainly not spent, which are the 2 most important reasons (if not the only reasons) why authors kill off their characters. The King in the North, Robb, dying left a huge vacuum in the North. And there had to be at least 7-10 (Theon and Asha) chapters devoted to the whole situation in the north in Dance. Jon dying WOULD lead to plot advancement, IF that's what Martin had planned from the beginning. That said, I don't think Jon is dead, and I don't want it. An alternative which I think is possible: Jon is dead, but wargs into Ghost, or at least his soul. Some time after, or meanwhile, Mel resurrects his bodily remains, while it becomes AA or some sort of nights king type weird thing that reeks (no pun intended at all) some havoc. This would sort of go with the OP, about how Martin wants to muck up the whole chosen one arc, while still not wasting all the character development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Then Bran, are true savior and the rightful king of the North no longer has to worry about the Night's King reborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The whole warging into ghost or zombie jon just sounds like the dumbest move I've ever heard though lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hielo y Fuego Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Lead me to thinking this.... The King in the North, Robb, dying left a huge vacuum in the North. And there had to be at least 7-10 (Theon and Asha) chapters devoted to the whole situation in the north in Dance. Jon dying WOULD lead to plot advancement, IF that's what Martin had planned from the beginning. That said, I don't think Jon is dead, and I don't want it. An alternative which I think is possible: Jon is dead, but wargs into Ghost, or at least his soul. Some time after, or meanwhile, Mel resurrects his bodily remains, while it becomes AA or some sort of nights king type weird thing that reeks (no pun intended at all) some havoc. This would sort of go with the OP, about how Martin wants to muck up the whole chosen one arc, while still not wasting all the character development. Wow, that's exactly what I'm expecting to see myself lol! Alas, GRRM is the master of the unexpected (and the heartbreak) so he'll obviously end up doing something entirely different, of course. In all seriousness, I'd hate to see Jon dead for good, but we've got to take into consideration how his dead would help move the plot along. That's how I came up to the conclusion that his dead would leave the whole scene around the Wall in such disarray, that it would almost be like an open invitation for the Others to make their move. Especially with Stannis gone now. Then again, Melissandre's viewings in the fire did show her a man becoming a wolf before becoming a man again. So I'm almost positive that Jon's not gone for good…not yet, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourneblade Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I guess GRRM would be lying to us when he said "Yes Jon will find out who his mother is" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The whole purpose of killing off Eddard and Robb and Cat and everyone else that was major and became a corpse was to instill doubt about a character's chance of survival. Same thing with the Un beric and Un cat, to sow doubt in the finality of a character's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lyman Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Jon is not dead. His last chapter mentions him not feeling the fourth knife. In my opinion that is because someone else prevented it from reaching him. Someone who could give him immediate medical treatment and save his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hand to King Davos Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The whole purpose of killing off Eddard and Robb and Cat and everyone else that was major and became a corpse was to instill doubt about a character's chance of survival. Same thing with the Un beric and Un cat, to sow doubt in the finality of a character's death. :agree: Exactly. Martin doesn't actually kill off that many *good* characters. Just the Ned Robb and Cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Too much unfinished business with Jon. All the mystery about his dreams, his parents, the prophecies, his powers, his rise to leadership...that would have been a LOT of time wasted for someone who would end up meaning nothing at the end of the day. There's a difference between killing off a character to advance the plot and killing them off only for the shock value. The latter would be an example of bad writing if that character had as many loose ends as Jon does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Jon's death could push the plot forward. Now that the men of the NW no longer stand true since they murdered him, the Others could pass the Wall. But no, I do not believe Jon is dead. I also find it interesting that Martin chose to have Maester Aemon leave the Wall and not be on hand to take care of Jon. Maester Aemon died before the reached Oldtown. It's very likely he would have died if he stayed at the Wall. The man was around 100 years old, maybe older. If he was alive, yes he could have taken care of Jon, but I don't think Aemon would have lived that long. And anyway the shock of what Bowen & Company did might have killed him. I guess GRRM would be lying to us when he said "Yes Jon will find out who his mother is" Nah. Bloodraven and Bran tell him while he's in a coma, and then he slips peacefully away knowing that he never really was a bastard, and he's going on to a better place where he can finally be with his true parents. [cue harps and angels] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lyman Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Maester Aemon died before the reached Oldtown. It's very likely he would have died if he stayed at the Wall. The man was around 100 years old, maybe older. If he was alive, yes he could have taken care of Jon, but I don't think Aemon would have lived that long. And anyway the shock of what Bowen & Company did might have killed him. Nah. Bloodraven and Bran tell him while he's in a coma, and then he slips peacefully away knowing that he never really was a bastard, and he's going on to a better place where he can finally be with his true parents. [cue harps and angels] And cue the pichforks from all the Jon fans saying he'll sit on the throne because he's Rhaegar's legitimate heir. As far as Maester Aemon goes, I don't think he would be shocked by Bowen and co. He's a Targaryen so he's seen his fair share of backstabbing and leadership squabbles. I believe the travel on two ships is probably what took its toll on Maester Aemon. Staying at the wall would probably have gained him a few more moths. (Or now that I think about it, given Melisandre an option of royal blood to burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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