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The experience of Meereen


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#1 WMarshal

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:42 AM

Would you as a reader say Dany's "adventures" makes her a good candidate for the throne, or not? Please explain your reasoning.



#2 Apple Martini

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:01 AM

If I thought that she had actually learned something about good governance from her time there, I'd be inclined to say, "Well, maybe." However, my takeaway from the ending is more like, "I failed at governing so now I'm just going to burn stuff down." Assuming that takeaway ends up being accurate, I'm going to have to say, "No."

 

But plenty of people, maybe even most people, who chase after the Iron Throne have no business sitting on it, so she's hardly alone there.


Edited by Apple Martini, 04 May 2014 - 10:02 AM.


#3 Audrey Arryn

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:11 AM

I dont believe she will want the throne by the time she gets to westeros IMO, however I do think she has gained experience in Meereen.



#4 HelenaAndTheMachine

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:11 AM

I dont think ruling Meereen is like ruling Westeros. In Meereen she was surrounded by hostile forces, and was required to seek out new allies, a new economy, balance new and old, deal with the fallout of abolishing an age old practice (slavery. We know that irl this is no easy task) etc. etc. Whereas in Westeros she would be ruling a land with well established traditions, institutions and a diverse economy that she doesn't need to replace. I dont think ruling in those two situations is quite the same.
That said, it would depend on the circumstances in which she ascended the Iron Throne as to whether I believe Meereen would help
ETA: it also depends how the Meereen storyline concludes too imo.

Edited by HelenaAndTheMachine, 04 May 2014 - 10:13 AM.


#5 The Silver King

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:24 AM

I think her time there is definitely showing her what ruling is all about. Although her "adventures" as you called them were due to her meeting a lot more hostility than I think she would meet if she ever actually took the IT. Meereen is teaching her about politics,war and the general duplicitous nature of those who play the game of thrones. All in all I would say my answer is yes. She is making a lot of bad decisions but she's also learning from them and I think her experiences here due to their extreme nature will make her more than prepared for any challenge she could meet when she goes west.



#6 Bea_Stark

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:11 AM

I dont think ruling Meereen is like ruling Westeros. In Meereen she was surrounded by hostile forces, and was required to seek out new allies, a new economy, balance new and old, deal with the fallout of abolishing an age old practice (slavery. We know that irl this is no easy task) etc. etc. Whereas in Westeros she would be ruling a land with well established traditions, institutions and a diverse economy that she doesn't need to replace. I dont think ruling in those two situations is quite the same.
That said, it would depend on the circumstances in which she ascended the Iron Throne as to whether I believe Meereen would help
ETA: it also depends how the Meereen storyline concludes too imo.

I agree with this. However, I think that by the end of DwD she's so pissed with everybody, still unaware of who exactly betrayed her, that she'll be likely to go around burning stuff down for the hell of it, to try and maybe end up getting Mereen back.

If she won the IT, perhaps her rulling style would be a little too harsh. I think she's getting more and more suspicious now, too worried about the treasons, and even if she found out who the 3 treasons are, it's possible that would haunt her forever, like her father. :(

I see her going berserk in TWoW.

Edited by Bea_Stark, 04 May 2014 - 11:13 AM.


#7 Mad Monkey

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:22 AM

I

If I thought that she had actually learned something about good governance from her time there, I'd be inclined to say, "Well, maybe." However, my takeaway from the ending is more like, "I failed at governing so now I'm just going to burn stuff down." Assuming that takeaway ends up being accurate, I'm going to have to say, "No."


I actually think she was on the right track mentally ("a queen belongs to her people") until the scene that you allude to in the ending. Meereen was a perfect storm of agony for political science; it's a foreign occupation, economic recession, societal upheaval, medical pandemic, and emancipation all at the same time. She was terrible but she was at least on the path of learning and improving. If she just burns it all and gives up... well, yikes.

#8 OldGimletEye

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:42 AM

Well, past performance is no guarantee of future results, but its the best thing we have got. Dany's start certainly hasn't boded well.

 

She might be able to turn into a decent ruler, if she wants to. But she certainly needs to work at it. If she shows more maturity and puts more effort into learning what she is doing, she might get off my shit list.

 

If I thought that she had actually learned something about good governance from her time there, I'd be inclined to say, "Well, maybe." However, my takeaway from the ending is more like, "I failed at governing so now I'm just going to burn stuff down." Assuming that takeaway ends up being accurate, I'm going to have to say, "No."

 

Yep, this is what makes me pessimistic about her future as a ruler. Her last chapter certainly did come of as “well, this ruling thing is hard, so I am just going to throw a tantrum and start burning shit down.”



#9 rondo has three heads

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:54 AM

Would you as a reader say Dany's "adventures" makes her a good candidate for the throne, or not? Please explain your reasoning.

 

No...there is nothing to indicate she has learned anything about ruling in general, nor has she started learning what she will need to know to succeed in Westeros. Mereen is helping set the stage for Dany's turn to villain



#10 Frey Pentos

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 12:01 PM

 

No...there is nothing to indicate she has learned anything about ruling in general, 

 

 

What about all the compromises she has made. Such as even marrying one the GM's even though she hates the pampered scum.



#11 AntZ

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 12:19 PM

 

 

What about all the compromises she has made. Such as even marrying one the GM's even though she hates the pampered scum.

 

In her final chapter, she rued those compromises.



#12 Victor227

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 12:23 PM

Meereen was about forging a new system surrounded by hostility. Westeros would be about assuring the nobility that she has no intentions of changing anything, and simply smoothing herself into the fabric of their world as though she was always there. It's a stagnant land. They have their system, it works, Dany doesn't seem too interested in changing it like she was with the slaver cities. Her governance in Meereen didn't teach her any of how to do that, and what assimilating she did in Meereen was an experience she came away from feeling nothing but bitterness and failure for doing.



#13 Apple Martini

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 12:24 PM

In her final chapter, she rued those compromises.


It also doesn't help that she was manipulated into making the compromises. She's trying to stop the Sons of the Harpy and ends up marrying the guy the Harpy says she should, all the while thinking she's getting good advice. That guy in turn gets her to open the fighting pits, and she lets Yunkai operate a slave market outside the city.

Can you be given credit for a compromise if your mortal enemy tricked you into making it and you're none the wiser?

Edited by Apple Martini, 04 May 2014 - 12:24 PM.


#14 A Man Reads

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 12:26 PM

I'm not sure. If it's about learning how to govern and how to lead, then it may help her in the long run. Still, she is so far away from Westeros at this point that she can't be that serious a candidate yet. If she wasn't a POV character, would we take her seriously at all?

 



#15 WingZero

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 12:29 PM

Would you as a reader say Dany's "adventures" makes her a good candidate for the throne, or not? Please explain your reasoning.

 

I think her miscarriages of ''Justic''' and compassion are exactly why she is one of the worse candidates.



#16 Waters Gate

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 12:33 PM

I get the feel that as a reader at some point in ADWD you'd actually cheer at Dany if she would burn it all. The situation around Merreen is just looking very unsymphatetic for anyone wanting to set up good rule.

And these Ghiscari mongrels with their weird name's have a certain dehumanization to them, its just difficult for the reader to build an identity for those people because of the culture clash that you end up not really wanting to like them, safe for those who you migth give some personality too. I think Grrm wants to trick people to feel arbitrary resentment towards Ghiscari so they would make the mistake of justifying the total destruction option.

 

I'd say though she is gaining experience. One can learn out of mistake's maybe more than out of succes, depends what conclusions you take. I do hope she doesn't turn it all into a fiery inferno. I do think things will turn into an inferno arround Merreen, but that doesn't have to be her fault.



#17 AryaNymeriaVisenya

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 01:03 PM

I dont think ruling Meereen is like ruling Westeros. In Meereen she was surrounded by hostile forces, and was required to seek out new allies, a new economy, balance new and old, deal with the fallout of abolishing an age old practice (slavery. We know that irl this is no easy task) etc. etc. Whereas in Westeros she would be ruling a land with well established traditions, institutions and a diverse economy that she doesn't need to replace. I dont think ruling in those two situations is quite the same.
That said, it would depend on the circumstances in which she ascended the Iron Throne as to whether I believe Meereen would help
ETA: it also depends how the Meereen storyline concludes too imo.

 

Westeros presents whole new challenges. Its huge. Its diverse. Its set in its ways but that can be just as much of a hindrance. And her family has a history that will need to be overcome. Oh, and the ice zombies. She went to Mereen and Astapor with a vision, with an end goal, the abolition of slavery. When she goes to Westeros her goal is to overcome a much bigger enemy with no bait. What can she offer the Lords of Westeros in return for the new reign of monarchs that have their own saying 'everytime a Targ is born the gods flip a coin'? If she ever sits on the throne, what is her plan? 



#18 Audrey Arryn

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 02:24 PM

Well, past performance is no guarantee of future results, but its the best thing we have got. Dany's start certainly hasn't boded well.

 

She might be able to turn into a decent ruler, if she wants to. But she certainly needs to work at it. If she shows more maturity and puts more effort into learning what she is doing, she might get off my shit list.

 

Yep, this is what makes me pessimistic about her future as a ruler. Her last chapter certainly did come of as “well, this ruling thing is hard, so I am just going to throw a tantrum and start burning shit down.”

I didn't get that impression from her last chapter



#19 Eyron Stark

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 02:35 PM

I don't have a good feeling about her. At first she was nice but she's getting more and more Aerys like. She feels very entitled with very little support. She hasn't ever seen Westeros, whereas Aegon I actually lived and breathed among westerosi nobility before starting his conquering.

#20 Fire Eater

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 04:17 PM

The experience in Meereen taught Dany that conquest and ruling are two different things. Ruling can be just as hard as conquest if not more so. Her dragons were pretty much useless in regards to the Sons of the Harpy and court politics. She learned ruling involves making tough decisions, and sometimes making the seemingly lesser tough decisions can lead to greater consequences like not following through on the hostages leads to many more people being killed by the Sons of the Harpy. 

 

I think we are going to see a darker Daenerys as of her last chapter. She is going to harden her heart and significantly reduce her desire to protect innocent life. I think she will stave off improvement in court political skills, because who needs to learn to do that when she has Tyrion. 

 

It also doesn't help that she was manipulated into making the compromises. She's trying to stop the Sons of the Harpy and ends up marrying the guy the Harpy says she should, all the while thinking she's getting good advice. That guy in turn gets her to open the fighting pits, and she lets Yunkai operate a slave market outside the city.

Can you be given credit for a compromise if your mortal enemy tricked you into making it and you're none the wiser?

She is a good offensive military commander, but a bad politician.