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Darkstar's parents and his role in ASOIAF


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#1 rvtayal

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:41 AM

Ok so this theory is semi-crackpot, but I feel like it has a tendril of truth in it. 

 

So everyone remembers Gerold Dayne, aka Darkstar. He is a knight of House Dayne and a renowned fighter. His most famous act is "helping" Arianner Martell with her plot to place Myrcella Baratheon on the throne, but when that went sour we tried to kill the little princess, succeeding in only cutting off her ear.

 

However, we get almost no history on Darkstar. No parents, no motives, nothing at all. We don't even get a good description of him: in his 20's and handsome. (remember his age, that is somewhat important to this theory. 

 

My theory is that he is the bastard son of Arthur Dayne. Arthur Dayne, aka the Sword of the Morning, is of course the famous knight of the Kings Guard who Ned Stark kills at the Tower of Joy (more on that in a moment). To be honest, I have no idea who Darkstar's mother would be.  Other than Ashara, Arthur is the only Dayne who is really mentioned in the series. And Darkstar can't be the son of Ashara, I it would have been mentioned somewhere(right?). Plus I'm pretty sure that Ashara's stillborn (?) child was her first.

 

Even if Darkstar isn't the son of Arthur Dayne, then this next part serves to tie him to Arthur Dayne. My idea is that he was a squire to our favorite Sword of the Morning. If I'm not mistaken this is a popular theory. So if Darkstar is Arthur's squire, then he would have been at the Tower of Joy with the other King's Guard members. 

 

At the beginning of Game of Thrones, Jon Snow is 14 years old. That means the rebellion finished around 14 years ago. So if Arianne Martell's description of Darkstar is correct, we can assume he was about 8-15 years old at the Tower of Joy. This is the perfect age for a squire, especially if he was related to Arthur Dayne. 

 

So obviously Darkstar survived the Tower of Joy, as he was just a squire. He would have watched the knight he serves die at the hand of Ned Stark. But he also would have been witness to the birth of Lyanna's child (Jon right?). Even if Darkstar wasn't in the room when Ned Stark was with Lyanna, he could have placed 2 and 2 together. Before Ned came there was a baby. After he left there was no baby. 

 

At some point Doran Martell states that  "Darkstar is the most dangerous man in Dorne." I am inclined to think that he is dangerous not because of his fighting prowess, which is impressive, but because of something he knows. This thing that he knows is probably that a Targaryen child is with Ned Stark. 

 

Now of course Darkstar doesn't know what the child's name is, or where the child is now, but he knows the true heir to the Iron Throne (if you think Aegon is truly dead) is with Ned Stark. Eventually, as he grew up and heard tales from the North, he probably could have pieced it together that Ned Stark is passing the heir to the Iron Throne off as his own bastard, Jon. 

 

The reason Doran thinks Darkstar is the most dangerous man in Dorne is because Doran knows that Darkstar knows what went down at ToJ. What I can't figure out is if Darkstar told anybody. I don't think he told Doran, or we would have some hint of it in his POV chapters. (It wouldn't be smart for Dorne to support Jon's claim to the throne right now anyways because who is going to believe that Jon is actually a Targaryen. No one else really has any idea of what happened at ToJ.)

 

This doesn, however, explain why he tries to kill Myrcella Baratheon. Eventually he wants to place Jon on the throne, as he serves the Targaryens like his father. It is my opinion that he meant to kill  Myrcella all along, and when their group ran into trouble he seized his opportunity. 

 

Maybe he is currently traveling north to tell Jon the truth he knows. This could be the big unveiling that we wanted. 



#2 Leap

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:50 AM

I find it hard to believe that Doran would, without knowledge of what went down at the ToJ, still place as much weight on said knowledge. Why would he think Darkstar was so dangerous because of this knowledge if he didn't know what it was, or did he just believe Darkstar when he said ''it's really dangerous info''.

 

In honesty, I don't think it's really characteristic of Dayne to have a bastard. Although I wouldn't put it past Martin. 

 

Also, of course ''Darkstar'' implies that he's the ''black goat'' of the family, such as Blackfish is. If the background on the Dayne's flag was black, then I'd be more inclined to believe he was a bastard, but Darkstar isn't a reversal of the House Dayne coat of arms. Purplestar is. 



#3 rvtayal

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:57 AM

That is true I hadn't thought of that. However, when you think about ti, what is more fitting that the bastard son of "The Sword of the Morning" being the "Darkstar?" But I am incined to believe what you said. So he might not be the bastard son of Arthur Dayne. 

 

Maybe he said this to Doran: "There is another Targaryen child and I know where he is." But maybe he didn't tell Doran who or where Jon is. 

 

To be honest I'm not all that sure about this theory. You have to admit it is semi-crackpot. 



#4 The Kinkslayer

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:59 AM

Darkstar wasn't planned and therefore he has no parents, he's just a consequence of scrapping the 5-year leap post ASOS and Edric Dayne being to young to be a credible knight



#5 KINGpanther

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:05 AM

Nice. Darkstar has to have a bigger role in upcoming books. Maybe heads north and joins the watch to protect a recuperating Jon.

#6 Ran

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:07 AM

GRRM has a family tree for the Daynes circa the rebellion, as it happens. Gerold Dayne is not a bastard son of Arthur Dayne.



#7 Apple Martini

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:09 AM

GRRM has a family tree for the Daynes circa the rebellion, as it happens. Gerold Dayne is not a bastard son of Arthur Dayne.

 

Thank God.

 

I'll be glad when the entire thing is out (please say it's in the World Book) and the "Darkstar is Aegon/Arthur's bastard/Jimmy Hoffa" stuff can fall by the wayside.



#8 Ran

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:14 AM

Darkstar is Aegon is already dead, as GRRM provided his age and he's too old. :)



#9 DaeronSnow

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:27 AM

Darkstar is Viserys, he was the one the king guards were protecting at the TOJ. The one we knew from AGOT was a just a bait who had no means to survive other than pretending to be the real Viserys and that eventually drove him mad...



#10 Apple Martini

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:53 AM

Darkstar is Aegon is already dead, as GRRM provided his age and he's too old. :)


Well yes, doesn't stop people from spouting off about it though. I do hope in his case that a spade is just a spade.

#11 HelenaAndTheMachine

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:58 AM

Darkstar is Viserys, he was the one the king guards were protecting at the TOJ. The one we knew from AGOT was a just a bait who had no means to survive other than pretending to be the real Viserys and that eventually drove him mad...

....
....
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May the forum have mercy on me, I just cant...

#12 Cold Hands warm heart

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:59 AM

The second chapter of TWOW should bring Darkstar to the Wall, The first of Jons King's Guard.



#13 John Hulboy

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 12:19 PM

The second chapter of TWOW should bring Darkstar to the Wall, The first of Jons King's Guard.



nothing would make me happier .jon will have a great Kingsguard.

#14 The Weirwoods Eyes

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 12:22 PM

This sentence makes me so happy. :wub:

 

 

 

 If I'm not mistaken this is a popular theory.

 

While I think he was indeed a Squire at the TOJ

(Here's my thread, http://asoiaf.wester...e-tower-of-joy/ )

 

I can't get on board with the Bastard idea. at all. I don't think he is anything more than a Dayne from the cadet branch, no ones secret love child or some hidden Targaryen, just a really embittered cousin of Arthur's who witnessed the relationship between Rhaegar & Lyanna and who knows R+L=J. 

 

His parents will I'm guessing just be some Dayne guy and some dornish lady. Its not who he is its what he knows. Doran knows it too but he does not want Jon revealing, it would wreck his plan to get Arrianne/Quentyn on the throne as consort to Viserys/Aegon/Daenarys. He might be a die hard Targ loyalist but he does not want that Targ monarch to be the child of the woman his sister was set aside for. 

 

 

 

But i am doing a little dance at my theory being described as "Popular" because its a crackpot but hell its my own baby crackpot. 



#15 Melisandros Megas

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 01:56 PM

Actually Dorkstar was conceived when old Mrs. Stark (whoever she was), went Mrs. Robinson on young Doran at one of those silly tourneys that the fine folk like to attend.

He is also the Chosen One, destined to be the progenitor of the Dorkstarks who will repopulate the north after.....

#16 Lady Blizzardborn

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 03:10 PM

If it's not who he is (Oberyn's son, Doran and Oberyn's brother, Viserys, Howland Reed, Papa Smurf, etc) that makes him dangerous then it must be what he knows.

 

Dangerous knowledge he might have:

 

1.  Squire at ToJ and thus knows about Jon.

2.  Viserys and Daenerys lived at/near High Hermitage temporarily (thus Dany's lemon tree).

3.  Something about Doran, Oberyn, Arianne, Quentyn, etc.  If he knows Doran's plans, he can mess them up.  Not sure there's anything he could know about Oberyn that would shock anyone.  Arianne and Quentyn are different.  If Darkstar somehow found out about Arianne's betrothal to Viserys, and/or Quentyn's mission, that could cause serious headaches for Dorne.  However, granted he tried to kill Myrcella, it's not like the Lannisters would believe him.  The only way he could work around that is if someone else was trying to kill her, he's the only one who saw it, and he used his sword to block their dagger, cutting her ear but saving her life.  And while that's possible, who would believe it?

4.  Something else entirely.  He does know about Arianne's plot to crown Myrcella, and that could also be a problem.  But again, Doran's made sure he was discredited, so I don't know that this works for why he's dangerous.

 

 

Another option.  He's dangerous because he can't be controlled.  He's highborn enough that they've never been able to discretely take him out, and a good enough fighter to make it potentially difficult, but if he won't behave he'll have to go.



#17 TheHouseHB

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 03:21 PM

Is it possible he is Oberyn's bastard?



#18 Ran

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 03:27 PM

He's no one's bastard.



#19 Dornish Vinegar

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 03:28 PM

Is it possible he is Oberyn's bastard?

That theory was tossed around a bit here, and IIRC there was no definitive evidence against it. Whether or not one believes it though is obviously to the reader and his/her/their impressions.



#20 ArabellaVidal

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 03:38 PM

Here we go again.

He wouldn't be a Dayne if he was a bastard. And why would there be secret bastards in Dorne of all places?

Edited by ArabellaVidal, 04 May 2014 - 03:40 PM.