Wmarshal Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 JRB we have just been on a roll when it comes to agreeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Did Robert need Jon to eat and to defend him? Did Joffey have any true power without Mace or Tywin? Having influence on Tommen really means nothing be it Mace is the enforcer of Tommen's law. Uh yeh, Robert did need an entire army and a kingsguard to defend him. And aside from the occassional Boar, Robert did depend on others for his food. Hell even the boars were cooked and prepared by others I'm sure.Kings aren't anything close to being self sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Atreides Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 She's not useless. The point of the Tyrells rejecting her was that she was too much used. jk. I've realised that Cersei's beauty is kind of a myth and the real useless thing here. Who is she able to seduce? The Kettleblacks, Lancel... men that really serve no purpose but being simply henchmen. Willas' family rejected her and I don't think it was not because she was already a mother of three but because she really offers nothing but being pretty. And Oberyn'd rather die than having sex with her. And didn't she also tried to seduce Ned? Heh. Strong important men don't really pay attention to Cersei now. Well as they say Beauty fades, Wisdom seldom does. Cersei has little wisdom, too much resentment which blinds her to the bigger picture, I can't hate Cersei she is too pitiful for me to hate her she is beneath contempt and predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 Ziggy, what point are you trying to make? Mace is more powerful and has more say then any hand we have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Ziggy, what point are you trying to make? Mace is more powerful and has more say then any hand we have seen.Mace has been Hand for 5 minutes, he hasn't done some unprecedented reign. The previous Hand had as much power as him, his reign also was only about 5 minutes.Wasn't Tywin Hand before Kevan? He had power in a 5 minute reign also.Idk I'm fuzzy on who the Hands were between Tyrion and Mace.Tyrion had his 5 minutesNed had his 5Jon Arryn looks amazing, took almost decades to get rid of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 The difference between all those men, is the king has no power to remove him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Mace has been Hand for 5 minutes, he hasn't done some unprecedented reign. The previous Hand had as much power as him, his reign also was only about 5 minutes. Mace has been doing things for the Iron Throne before he was named Hand. Either it was LF or Olenna behind him, the people love Margaery due to the good moves of House Tyrell. Having the father of the Little Queen as Hand of the Kind is going to be widely accepted by the people in KL, for instance, while they never completely accepted the Lannister: they rioted and tried to kill or hurt Joffrey and the Queen, they thought Tyrion was an evil monkey and as someone pointed out, they never completely forgotten that Tywin sacked the city and how he murdered Rhaegar's children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Yeh ok Mace is running shit as the Hand, I'll give you that But his power doesn't extend beyond KL and Highgarden. This is hardly anything to be drunken with unprecedented power about.Certainly nothing to feel cozy and secure about when Hands are being murdered and there are more than a couple of formidable forces aiming for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 Yeah and that means a lot be it Highgarden is the only thing keeping Tommen a float. No Mace equals a pretty fucked Cersei and Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Touché, I still think Mace isn't brilliantly handling anything. Just slightly outwitting other mustache twirlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 I still think Cersei has a hollow title against Mace's power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I still think Cersei has a hollow title against Mace's power.For now sure, but mace is eventually going to have to make some war decisions or he's going to be sitting in a seige. And smallfolk might not give a crap how cool Marg is then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 He is making war decisions, sending men to defend against invaders, doesn't change how much power he has. As to Marg, there is nothing that a siege can do that make Cersei respected by KL folk again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 He is making war decisions, sending men to defend against invaders, doesn't change how much power he has. As to Marg, there is nothing that a siege can do that make Cersei respected by KL folk again.It does change how much power he has, if you have 10 men near you and you send 4 away to deal with something, you have weakened yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 And when your a foe has no men the odds are still incredible in your favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 And when your a foe has no men the odds are still incredible in your favor.Yeh but his foes have plenty of men, the ones he's supposedly sending his men to deal with.(Where did he send troops to anyway? I thought he wasn't doing anything until the marg scandal was settled) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 He sent a force to SE order Tarley and his sons with half the Reach strength is dealing with Euron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 He sent a force to SE order Tarley and his sons with half the Reach strength is dealing with Euron. The crown told him to siege Storm's End. The crown told him to send Tarly to take Duskendale and Maidenpool. The crown told the Redwyne's to take the Lannister heavy force to Dragonstone using their fleet. The only independent move was Garlan and Willas massing forces to fight in the Reach and they had to do it independently because Mace f-ed off back to Kings Landing when Marge was in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 Then Mace returned, then tarley joined him, you act as if Tommen's word actually means something. It doesn't, he is a puppet king. Mace has yet to do something he was not okay with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Cersei spends two-thirds of her waking hours with Tommen according to Kevan, and she knows form both Jaime and Qyburn that Tommen fixes his seal to any document placed before him. SHe would likely have Tommen alone with her agents, and have him place his seal to document renaming her Regent. Mace wouldn't refuse or tear it up as it would risk accusations of treason as well as basically declaring that he doesn't wish to work with the Lannisters or share power with them, and it would be backing some suspicions that he is behind Kevan and Pycelle's deaths and initiating a palace coup. The last thing he needs is conflict with the Lannisters with Ironmen to the west and Aegon to the south. I guess Mace would let it stand for now, and work to try to find a way to remove her legally later. There is no way Marg loses, HS already told the council the charges are weak.I agree, Margaery wouldn't go for a regular trial unless she knew there was a good chance she would win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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