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It was not a coincidence. It made the Lannisters the best possible scapegoats.

So you are saying that Little Finger saw Jon Aryn snooping around, so then decided to tell Lysa to poison him because it would provide the best possible cover to murder him? He would have to correctly predict that someone would find out about the investigation of the incest, otherwise the suspicion might fall on Lysa.

Possible, but then it's an entirely different motive. But why wouldn't he wait after Jon Aryn found out and told King Robert?

I guess it's technically possible, but not very rational of him.

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So you are saying that Little Finger saw Jon Aryn snooping around, so then decided to tell Lysa to poison him because it would provide the best possible cover to murder him? He would have to correctly predict that someone would find out about the investigation of the incest, otherwise the suspicion might fall on Lysa.

Possible, but then it's an entirely different motive. But why wouldn't he wait after Jon Aryn found out and told King Robert?

I guess it's technically possible, but not very rational of him.

But he didn't predict that someone would find out about the investigation, he actually guided Ned in that direction (albeit with some unexpected help from Pycelle).

As for why not waiting until Robert knew, I guess If Robert knew, everyone would join against the Lannisters in a short and predictable war which wouldn't give him the opportunity to rise through the ranks, let alone destroy the Starks

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But he didn't predict that someone would find out about the investigation, he actually guided Ned in that direction (albeit with some unexpected help from Pycelle).

As for why not waiting until Robert knew, I guess If Robert knew, everyone would join against the Lannisters in a short and predictable war which wouldn't give him the opportunity to rise through the ranks, let alone destroy the Starks

Yes, but it was far from uncertain that the Lannisters would have came out on top. Little Finger had no way of knowing Robert would die, Ned would die, Stannis would be defeated, Robb wouldn't have joined forces with Stannis, and so on.

I'll just write this one off as a plot hole and enjoy the series :)

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I don't think we've been shown Baelish's true motives yet, other than he wants everything and to rise in power, so I will wait and see as that becomes more clear.



in the next episode or so I expect Jon to gain much more power in the night's watch. thorne and slynt expected jon to die trying to kill the traitors, now he is coming back having defeated them and gaining momentum. it will be hard for the rest of the nigh'ts watch to ignore his accomplishments.



we haven't seen the wildlings south of the wall in a couple of episodes, seeing how quickly the boy got to castle black, you would have to assume they are very close. I guess still waiting for mance's troops to get in place north of the wall?



didn't see stannis for a couple episodes either, last time we saw davos he looked like a had an idea he was acting on. my guess is that it was to write to the iron bank asking for troops to go against the lannisters since they haven't paid back their debt, also tywin foreshadows this to cersei, making it seem like a real possibility.



dany's storyline is eh at best(haven't seen dragons in a long time), especially if all they show is how she is about to take over a city, the battle happens off screen, then it's just a bunch of slaves clapping for her.



what does anyone think of benjen stark, neds brother? we haven't seen him since season 1 when he disappeared north of the wall. if being a warg runs in the stark bloodline, bran, its possible he also has the capability, maybe he is somehow tied to the three eyed raven.




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Hmm, not if she wants to be a bit subtle I guess.

I guess, but she wasn't too subtle with Tywin or the other judge (the horny guy). Also, talking to Mace directly would let her use her "grieving mother" argument directly.

Plus I'd like to see more screen time for Mace, he seems like a jolly fellow :)

I don't think we've been shown Baelish's true motives yet, other than he wants everything and to rise in power, so I will wait and see as that becomes more clear.

in the next episode or so I expect Jon to gain much more power in the night's watch. thorne and slynt expected jon to die trying to kill the traitors, now he is coming back having defeated them and gaining momentum. it will be hard for the rest of the nigh'ts watch to ignore his accomplishments.

we haven't seen the wildlings south of the wall in a couple of episodes, seeing how quickly the boy got to castle black, you would have to assume they are very close. I guess still waiting for mance's troops to get in place north of the wall?

didn't see stannis for a couple episodes either, last time we saw davos he looked like a had an idea he was acting on. my guess is that it was to write to the iron bank asking for troops to go against the lannisters since they haven't paid back their debt, also tywin foreshadows this to cersei, making it seem like a real possibility.

dany's storyline is eh at best(haven't seen dragons in a long time), especially if all they show is how she is about to take over a city, the battle happens off screen, then it's just a bunch of slaves clapping for her.

what does anyone think of benjen stark, neds brother? we haven't seen him since season 1 when he disappeared north of the wall. if being a warg runs in the stark bloodline, bran, its possible he also has the capability, maybe he is somehow tied to the three eyed raven.

Yah, Dany's plot has been boring ever since they got rid of that hunk Khal Drogo. None of the other actors have the same screen presence.

Benjen stark died didn't he? If he's not with the wildlings, then he's a white walker. Hard to imagine him still being human and surviving all this time.

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Yah, Dany's plot has been boring ever since they got rid of that hunk Khal Drogo. None of the other actors have the same screen presence.

Benjen stark died didn't he? If he's not with the wildlings, then he's a white walker. Hard to imagine him still being human and surviving all this time.

I don't think so, I think at one point it just shows his horse coming back to the wall without him on it, I dont think they ever mentioned it unless I missed it, but yeah seems rather unlikely that he is still alive, but maybe some room for hope

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Anyone hoping for a Hound vs Brienne fight? Maybe the Hound and Arya cross Brienne and Pod's paths, and they end up fighting each other. They fight to a stalemate, and maybe Hound makes love to Brienne who share a common bond being outcast knights.



They then go their separate ways without Brienne knowing Arya is Cat's daughter.




Or maybe the Hound goes to the gate to the Vale, gets attacked, and they flee somewhere else, maybe to Braavos. Seems unlikely that Arya will stay in the Vale, since her storyline has her ending up in Braavos because of that coin.


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Oh another thing about Arya's future in Braavos. Maybe she meets Syrio Farrell. If Hound says that he can beat 3 Trants, then Syrio should be able too. After Arya left, Syrio picks up the steel sword of a fallen knight. Then he fends off Trant's attacks and says "Not today" to death and leaves off a ship to Braavos. Easy to run away from a guy wearing armour :)



Farrell was an amazing character. Loved his hair too, despite what the Hound says :)


Edited by AryaSansa
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think its possible that a hound vs brienne fight happens, would be awesome to see, although that means pod vs arya may happen



oberyn vs mountain is going to happen at some point, after all the talk of oberyns skill want to see him in action



agree that arya to bravos is the direction of her storyline, she goes there becomes an assassin with teaching from the one guy at harrenhal, jager or something? then starts taking names off her list, that could be seasons away though


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We got another Chekhov's Gun this episode.

Moon Door.

Why the heck is that thing , that far open?

With an over protective mom and addled Suckling Robin running around?

Put a Osha :) standard hazard label on that thing!

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We got another Chekhov's Gun this episode.

Moon Door.

Why the heck is that thing , that far open?

With an over protective mom and addled Suckling Robin running around?

Put a Osha :) standard hazard label on that thing!

omg!

I was on the verge of outrage when I saw Robin peering into the abyss ... and Lysa just drooling all over Littlefinger. Then I remembered the insanity of her persona, and laughed. Couldn't help myself.

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I apologize to the mods; I tried starting a thread (possibly in the wrong episode forum) but realized this would be a fine place to put my Littlefinger rant:



What is Littlefinger's shifty-eyed, foot-shuffling deal? Isn't he supposed to be a mastermind of manipulation? Things are falling right into place for him, and he's basically staring at the ground and walls during his scene with Lysa and going, "Er, um, YES my dear, I'm totally marrying you willingly. It's not just for political gain! And I'm certainly not obsessed with your niece."



I do not understand the choices made in portraying him this way in this scene. With that sort of body language, who would believe anything he said to her/him, ever? I don't think non-book readers need to be reminded of Littlefinger's creepy Sansa obsession from last episode or that he was in love with Catelyn. Do we really need it hammered home every episode that he's a moustache-twirling villain?



It pulls me right out of the show when I watch it.


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I apologize to the mods; I tried starting a thread (possibly in the wrong episode forum) but realized this would be a fine place to put my Littlefinger rant:

What is Littlefinger's shifty-eyed, foot-shuffling deal? Isn't he supposed to be a mastermind of manipulation? Things are falling right into place for him, and he's basically staring at the ground and walls during his scene with Lysa and going, "Er, um, YES my dear, I'm totally marrying you willingly. It's not just for political gain! And I'm certainly not obsessed with your niece."

I do not understand the choices made in portraying him this way in this scene. With that sort of body language, who would believe anything he said to her/him, ever? I don't think non-book readers need to be reminded of Littlefinger's creepy Sansa obsession from last episode or that he was in love with Catelyn. Do we really need it hammered home every episode that he's a moustache-twirling villain?

It pulls me right out of the show when I watch it.

Well I guess they wanted to show that he wasn't into Lysa, I wouldn't have known any other way.

It was funny to see his look when Lysa was ready to be married after she opened the doors :)

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What's up with the dragons? Haven't seen em in like two episodes. And when Barristan and Jorah are talking to Danny about her chances of taking Westeros miltarily, they don't mention the dragons at all. They would be the cornerstone of my military plans. It's as if they just flew away and we don't know when they'll be back.


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What's up with the dragons? Haven't seen em in like two episodes. And when Barristan and Jorah are talking to Danny about her chances of taking Westeros miltarily, they don't mention the dragons at all. They would be the cornerstone of my military plans. It's as if they just flew away and we don't know when they'll be back. =

yeah we haven't seen them in a while, i think dany is starting to have less control over them as shown in the early episode where they snapped back at her, so they are maybe just out on their own? i wonder if they are considered "old enough" to start fighting in wars, you would think the longer you wait the stronger they become and less chance of being killed

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What's up with the dragons? Haven't seen em in like two episodes. And when Barristan and Jorah are talking to Danny about her chances of taking Westeros miltarily, they don't mention the dragons at all. They would be the cornerstone of my military plans. It's as if they just flew away and we don't know when they'll be back.

I got hopes that Jorah would mention them.

But Jorah actually looked very miserable, for some reason. He was like "Jeez, Khaleesi, I don't know, do whatever you want, don't care".

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