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The rights of Tyrion


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94 replies to this topic

#1 WMarshal

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 06:32 PM

I say he has none to CR. He murdered his own father, his king, then left. Not to mention bylaws of gods and men, he should be short a head.



#2 Hutch

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 06:35 PM

I say he has none to CR. He murdered his own father, his king, then left. Not to mention bylaws of gods and men, he should be short a head.


Well, he can't get much shorter. (*rimshot)

Seriously though, he did murder his father, but contrary to popular (Westerosi) beliefs, he murdered no king. Also, he seems more into right of conquest right now, rather than birth right.

#3 WMarshal

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 06:40 PM

I know he didn't you know he didn't, but everyone else doesn't. As to right of conquest, sure he can try, I just wouldn't be surprised his story ends with him poisoned.



#4 Adam de Felden

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 06:42 PM

Sad to say but Tyrion has no rights to anything. The kinslayer is accursed, and no one in westeros is going yo shed a tear for the demon monkey.

#5 MyLittleFinger

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 06:43 PM

I say he has none to CR. He murdered his own father, his king, then left. Not to mention bylaws of gods and men, he should be short a head.

Under current administration yes.

Under Stannistration yes.

Under Aegonstration...maybe?

Under Danystration he'll probably be a hero and welcome to all his old entitlements. 

 

 

Didn't quite kill the king sadly though.



#6 The Santa of House Claus

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 06:48 PM

Tyrion would hardly be the first nobleman to speed up his inheritance. People might not like it, they might suspect Tyrion's hand, well finger, in the murder of Tywin, but remember, there is no proof. Just like with Joffrey, it will only be popular opinion among the masses, not confirmed fact. 



#7 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:16 PM

Sad to say but Tyrion has no rights to anything. The kinslayer is accursed, and no one in westeros is going yo shed a tear for the demon monkey.

Well, he has the right to a beheading instead of a noose. After all, he is a noble :cool4:



#8 Leap

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:29 PM

There's always right of conquest! Just beware his crab fork. 



#9 vox umbrarum

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:37 PM

Just like with Joffrey, it will only be popular opinion among the masses, not confirmed fact.

He's a convicted murder in terms of Westerosi law. He did lose his trial after all.



#10 Lyanna<3Rhaegar

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:47 PM

But who will stop him if they are all gone? Tywin is dead, eventually whoever the volonquar is will get Cersei, presumably after Tommen & Myrcella die. There will be noone left to argue with him over CR except maybe Jaime & I don't think he would.

#11 Lady Blizzardborn

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:54 PM

Rights or no rights, if he rides in on a dragon, he's not going to get much opposition.  If Daenerys grants him Casterly Rock he'll have a claim through that regardless of what came before.

 

Kinslaying is frowned upon and said to ensure being accursed but...is it actually illegal?  Tyrion was deemed treasonous and all his worldly goods and claims were attainted based on the regicide charge, not based on having killed his father, IIRC.


Edited by Lady Blizzardborn, 04 May 2014 - 07:54 PM.


#12 The Bittersteel

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:08 PM

I say he has none to CR. He murdered his own father, his king, then left. Not to mention bylaws of gods and men, he should be short a head.

 

Does this mean that if Rhaegar had killed Aery's he would have no entitlement to the Iron Throne on moral grounds alone? I'm of the mind that if he'd done so it could have saved thousands of lives. These things are never as cut and dry as they seem. In relation to Tyrion killing his own father, technically the act alone does nothing to diminish his claim on Casterly Rock but as he was discovered I believe Cersei has barred him from the succession for kinslaying. He still has a genetic claim of course, that can't be taken away unless it can be proved Tywin and his wife weren't his parents, but in terms of legal succession I think he's well out of line.

 

 



#13 the conquoring bastard25

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:26 PM

Tyrion didn't murder his king. That was littlefinger and Tyrell work.

Did he kill Tywin yes and there are those that might say that was a great first step to cleansing the realm.

Jamie took that white as the second son, Casterly Rock is Tyrions by all the laws in the realm.

So there's that.

Now if he can get a king to listen to why he killed Tywin and they are sypathic to his plight and they are in need of some lannister gold or armies. Reinstating Tyrion is a great first step.

The west is more likely to bend the knee to Tyrion then someone else from a different part of the realm.

#14 Fanless Mace

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:30 PM

With a dragon under him, Tyrion can and will have CR if he wants. Or not...

#15 FerociousVeldtRoarer

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:54 PM

But who will stop him if they are all gone? Tywin is dead, eventually whoever the volonquar is will get Cersei, presumably after Tommen & Myrcella die. There will be noone left to argue with him over CR except maybe Jaime & I don't think he would.

 

Everybody in the Westerlands? Tyrion murdered his own father. If one day he finds a dagger between his shoulder blades, he should not be surprised. No, I don't see Tyrion living happily ever after as Lord of Casterly Rock, no more than Roose Bolton as Warden of the North.



#16 Boarsbane

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:00 PM

He has no right to CR and no one in the Westerlands wants to see the little beast have it. Kevan's boy is a much better option.

Edited by Boarsbane, 04 May 2014 - 09:14 PM.


#17 complexphoenix

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:17 PM

Ok, and which court do you suppose will agree with that legal argument?... oh right... there are no courts in Westeros. Westerosi Law is a set of social conventions legitimized by their long existence and broad acceptance which can be rendered malleable or even completely ignored if the person who wishes to do so has enough swords. Tyrion has a legally plausible argument that he is the rightful heir to CR and Cersei has a legally plausible argument that he isn't. Which one prevails will depend on who can defeat the other and take the Rock. A more persuasive legal argument can certainly help to attract more swords, especially from among the honorable set, but beyond that it doesn't really matter that much who is legally "correct".



#18 Lord Damian

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:18 PM

If a new occupant take the iron throne and issues a pardon to him, yeah, he is free and clear, Ser Jaime killed his own king and he was in the kingsguard. He was pardoned and is now lord commander of the same kingsguard. It can happen.



#19 WMarshal

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:20 PM

There are courts in Westeros, and the most expected and universal form of law, the trial by combat, took place. He lost, by all laws from Dorne to the Wall, is no lord, but a dead man.



#20 Lyanna<3Rhaegar

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:20 PM

 
Everybody in the Westerlands? Tyrion murdered his own father. If one day he finds a dagger between his shoulder blades, he should not be surprised. No, I don't see Tyrion living happily ever after as Lord of Casterly Rock, no more than Roose Bolton as Warden of the North.


I don't think everyone in the Westerlands is that eager to defend Tywin Lannister. If Tyrion comes with Dany & they accept Dany as their queen they will have no problems with Tyrion having CR.