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The rights of Tyrion


Wmarshal

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I know he didn't you know he didn't, but everyone else doesn't. As to right of conquest, sure he can try, I just wouldn't be surprised his story ends with him poisoned.

Poison is a very realistic ending for the larger-than-life types.

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I don't think everyone in the Westerlands is that eager to defend Tywin Lannister. If Tyrion comes with Dany & they accept Dany as their queen they will have no problems with Tyrion having CR.

No one wants to follow someone they laugh at behind the person's back. Tytos proved that, though they laughed at him to his face as well.

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If a new occupant take the iron throne and issues a pardon to him, yeah, he is free and clear, Ser Jaime killed his own king and he was in the kingsguard. He was pardoned and is now lord commander of the same kingsguard. It can happen.

As lords Frey and Bolton have been discovering lately, the Iron Throne's approval is not the panacea.

I don't think everyone in the Westerlands is that eager to defend Tywin Lannister. If Tyrion comes with Dany & they accept Dany as their queen they will have no problems with Tyrion having CR.

For anybody who isn't intimately familiar with Tyrion's and Tywin's personal history and doesn't know the old fucker had it coming, patricide is one of the most hideous crimes. As for your "if" - it's a big if. If Tyrion comes with Dany - well then, it's entirely possible that the Westerlands will reject her solely for this reason.

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Really that wasn't mance walking around winterfell that I saw at the end of Dance? Funny there must have been a different Mance that was charged with freeing lord crows sister from the skinners that held Winterfell.

Yes Stannis did pardon him, by keeping him alive and burning someone else in his place that was as far as Stannis could stomach in the ways of pardoning Mance. Like Mel said the laws of Westeros end at the Wall. So Stannis really had no right to kill Mance, if Mance as going to die by anyone's hand it should have been Jon's as he's the lord commander and Mance was Night's Watch before he was king. By those laws Mance was Jon's to deal with not the other way around.

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There are courts in Westeros, and the most expected and universal form of law, the trial by combat, took place. He lost, by all laws from Dorne to the Wall, is no lord, but a dead man.

Tyrion was convicted by the royal court of King Tommen. If a different king takes the Iron Throne and pardons Tyrion, then the conviction is out the window. Law in Westeros is much more malleable, ambiguous, and subject to self-serving motivated reasoning than law in modern America. By talking about this matter as if it's obvious, settled, and incontrovertible, you are completely missing the fundamental truth of what Westerosi Law actually is.

Like I said: what matters isn't what the law actually is or "should" be, it's what people with swords and other forms of hard power decide to make it. Judgements are meaningless without effective enforcement. If Daenerys rides in on her dragons, grants CR to Tyrion, and backs that grant up with force against anyone who tries to challenge it, most of the legal arguments against Tyrion will melt away like dew in the sun, because no one wants to contradict the queen who has dragons and is willing to use them. Other claimants might use Tyrion's prior conviction to try and oust him at some point, but whether they succeed comes down to swords, just like every other legal dispute in Westeros. Some people will pick their side based on whose legal argument they find more persuasive, but plenty of others will choose sides based on blood ties, personal affections and grudges, or perceived prospect of personal gain or loss. Hard to predict how it might shake out.

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Everybody in the Westerlands? Tyrion murdered his own father. If one day he finds a dagger between his shoulder blades, he should not be surprised. No, I don't see Tyrion living happily ever after as Lord of Casterly Rock, no more than Roose Bolton as Warden of the North.

Not the same case. Nobody loved Tywin, and I'm sure many of them were happy to see him dead.

No one wants to follow someone they laugh at behind the person's back. Tytos proved that, though they laughed at him to his face as well.

If there's a dragon supporting him, no one will laugh at Tyrion. Specially considering he has been proven to be (in the eyes of the 7 Kingdoms at least) as ruthless as his father.

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Really that wasn't mance walking around winterfell that I saw at the end of Dance? Funny there must have been a different Mance that was charged with freeing lord crows sister from the skinners that held Winterfell.

Yes Stannis did pardon him, by keeping him alive and burning someone else in his place that was as far as Stannis could stomach in the ways of pardoning Mance. Like Mel said the laws of Westeros end at the Wall. So Stannis really had no right to kill Mance, if Mance as going to die by anyone's hand it should have been Jon's as he's the lord commander and Mance was Night's Watch before he was king. By those laws Mance was Jon's to deal with not the other way around.

did miss the whole, Mance was turned into Rattleshirt to hide him from Stannis part? Mance was suppose to die, Melisandre as her own agent saved him.

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Pardoning Tyrion isn't in their power, only the HS who is the servant of the gods and can free him from death recognized by gods and men.

And if someone who says otherwise defeats the High Septon's forces on the field of battle, then what?

Once again you are assuming a level of certainty and constancy in Westerosi Law that simply isn't there.

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Not the same case. Nobody loved Tywin, and I'm sure many of them were happy to see him dead.

If there's a dragon supporting him, no one will laugh at Tyrion. Specially considering he has been proven to be (in the eyes of the 7 Kingdoms at least) as ruthless as his father.

He isn't feared nearly as much as Tywin was, or respected. Do you think Tywin's bannermen would of dared laugh at him as he walked away from a war council? No. Tyrion will always be the ugly little dwarf son of their liege lord and no dragon is going to change that. In fact I think if Tyrion sides with Dany the Western lords would oppose them just out of principle.

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Tyrion was convicted by the royal court of King Tommen. If a different king takes the Iron Throne and pardons Tyrion, then the conviction is out the window. Law in Westeros is much more malleable, ambiguous, and subject to self-serving motivated reasoning than law in modern America. By talking about this matter as if it's obvious, settled, and incontrovertible, you are completely missing the fundamental truth of what Westerosi Law actually is.

Like I said: what matters isn't what the law actually is or "should" be, it's what people with swords and other forms of hard power decide to make it. Judgements are meaningless without effective enforcement. If Daenerys rides in on her dragons, grants CR to Tyrion, and backs that grant up with force against anyone who tries to challenge it, most of the legal arguments against Tyrion will melt away like dew in the sun, because no one wants to contradict the queen who has dragons and is willing to use them. Other claimants might use Tyrion's prior conviction to try and oust him at some point, but whether they succeed comes down to swords, just like every other legal dispute in Westeros. Some people will pick their side based on whose legal argument they find more persuasive, but plenty of others will choose sides based on blood ties, personal affections and grudges, or perceived prospect of personal gain or loss. Hard to predict how it might shake out.

No it really isn't, being spared from trial by combat means you are spared, being convected in trial by combat means your dead, Cat couldn't arrest Tyrion after the trial.

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then nothing, killing the HS does not take his word or power away, that is not how religion works.

If the High Septon is dead, he has no power. If the Faith Militant is defeated, he has no power. Are you seriously assuming that everyone will defer to the High Septon just because he's the High Septon? There are some lords who respect the legitimacy of the Faith, but there are also plenty who don't. And if the High Septon is killed and replaced with a puppet, then the Faith is just rubber-stamping the judgements of whoever appointed the puppet. Most every HS between the time of Jaehaerys up until the High Sparrow was just such a puppet, including the Fat One and the One Appointed By Tyrion.

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No, he just killed his father and supposed king, both heroes of the West, the land he is trying to take. Again, kings don't dpeak for the gods oly HS can save Tyrion.


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No it really isn't, being spared from trial by combat means you are spared, being convected in trial by combat means your dead, Cat couldn't arrest Tyrion after the trial.

Just because it is supposed to work that way doesn't mean it actually will. Once again, law in Westeros is whatever the person who wins the war says it is.

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If the High Septon is dead, he has no power. If the Faith Militant is defeated, he has no power. Are you seriously assuming that everyone will defer to the High Septon just because he's the High Septon? There are some lords who respect the legitimacy of the Faith, but there are also plenty who don't. And if the High Septon is killed and replaced with a puppet, then the Faith is just rubber-stamping the judgements of whoever appointed the puppet. Most every HS between the time of Jaehaerys up until the High Sparrow came along was just such a puppet.

If the HS is dead, the Faith picks a new leader, if the FM is destroyed, he is still in charge of the faith and has say of matters involved with the gods and oaths. Yeah, that is why the GC went to an HS to pardon Aemon to make him king. Yeah, those who do not worship the Faith, to bad for Tyrion the West keep the Faith. The Faith is now in the hands of the sparrows, just killing them to make one asshole lord of a land that does not want him is jut going to cause a decade long revolt with the Faith again.

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No, he just killed his father and supposed king, both heroes of the West, the land he is trying to take. Again, kings don't dpeak for the gods oly HS can save Tyrion.

Only in theory. In practice the king tends to win, because the king has more swords than the Faith, which for a long time had no swords at all. Now that the Faith Militant is restored, the Faith has a real ability to fight the crown and win, but victory is never guaranteed. They could still get wiped out and banned again.

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