[Book Spoilers] Forel vs. Trant debate

[Vedocorban]

For the record, the sounds that we heard during the showdown were metal hitting the ground followed by screams coming form multiple sources. If the show is hinting at anything it's that Syrio disarmed Trant and issued further punishment on his cohorts.

Wow, you're totally right. Just went back and listened to this five or six times. As Arya is running down the stairs, you clearly hear a *whack* followed by a blade hitting the floor, and then slicing and stabbing and screaming. It doesn't sound like Syrio screaming, either. It sounds like Syrio carving up a room full of Lannisters with a real sword.

[boojam]

Syrio's fate was left unresolved because of the POV structure. George couldn't have Arya watching how he died and at the same time escape from Trant.

The best Martin could do to depict that Syrio was making a last stand was showing his situation as dire as possible. And he did: four men in armor are approaching him, and is wodden sword is already broken. It's obvious that George clearly intends to imply that Syrio is going to die.

Syrio defeats four armed guys , who surely were not in their position because they were total incompetents, and he can't run away from a guy encumbered by full plate?

[Colonel Green]

Syrio defeats four armed guys , who surely were not in their position because they were total incompetents, and he can't run away from a guy encumbered by full plate?

Full plate does not "encumber". Men who wear it can run, jump, and do handstands.

[Ankou]

Full plate does not "encumber". Men who wear it can run, jump, and do handstands.

With the endurance of an unarmored person? Come on.

[Envie]

Wow, you're totally right. Just went back and listened to this five or six times. As Arya is running down the stairs, you clearly hear a *whack* followed by a blade hitting the floor, and then slicing and stabbing and screaming. It doesn't sound like Syrio screaming, either. It sounds like Syrio carving up a room full of Lannisters with a real sword.

Except - Trant is still alive ... and that's who he was squared off against when Arya ran away. So we can only assume that A) Trant killed him, or B ) He smacked Trant, knocked him out, then fended off a bunch of other attackers and took off himself. People have theorized this both directions since that scene and yes I agree the audio is quite misleading or else more purposeful trolling by the show producers. ;)

[Le Cygne]

Syrio's fate was left unresolved because of the POV structure. George couldn't have Arya watching how he died and at the same time escape from Trant.

The best Martin could do to depict that Syrio was making a last stand was showing his situation as dire as possible. And he did: four men in armor are approaching him, and is wodden sword is already broken. It's obvious that George clearly intends to imply that Syrio is going to die.

In the books, it says the other men were dead or dying. They weren't armored as well as Trant. Looks like he's implying that's why Syrio had more trouble with Trant. He got the other five in all the spots they weren't armored, hands, legs, eyes, neck. So it was one-on-one in the end:

A knight of the Kingsguard stood beneath the arch of the door with five Lannister guardsmen arrayed behind him... He was in full armor, but his visor was up... The red cloaks wore mail shirts over boiled leather and steel caps with lion crests...

They had chainmail over their chest and arms, and steel codpieces sewn into their pants, but only leather on their legs. Their hands were bare, and the caps they wore had noseguards, but no visor over the eyes...

Ser Meryn Trant ran out of patience. “Take her,” he said to his men. He lowered the visor of his helm...

Five men were down, dead, or dying by the time Arya reached the back door that opened on the kitchen...

She saw: the knight in his pale armor head to foot, legs, throat, and hands sheathed in metal, eyes hidden behind his high white helm, and in his hand cruel steel. Against that: Syrio, in a leather vest, with a wooden sword in his hand. “Syrio, run,” she screamed.

“The first sword of Braavos does not run,” he sang as Ser Meryn slashed at him. Syrio danced away from his cut, his stick a blur. In a heartbeat, he had bounced blows off the knight’s temple, elbow, and throat, the wood ringing against the metal of helm, gauntlet, and gorget. Arya stood frozen. Ser Meryn advanced; Syrio backed away. He checked the next blow, spun away from the second, deflected the third. The fourth sliced his stick in two, splintering the wood and shearing through the lead core.

[Gendrys Forge]

Syrio is dead and gone. That being said, I find it ridiculous people say he couldn't have grabbed a sword. The guy was fucking flying and dancing around that room like a boss, im 110% sure he could have faked to the left, rolled to the right and grabbed a real sword as he jumped up or something like that.

[Lon]

Slightly off topic, but why would the "First Sword of Braavos" be acting as an itinerant fencing teacher in Westeros? I always just assumed that it was just one of the usual exaggerations so common with the charming, roguish character type, but most people seem to take it as fact. Is there some back story on Syrio that I missed somewhere?

[Pod The Impaler]

It did occur to me Sandor's armor looked more like studded boiled leather armor and not plate - in which case one would think Needle could pierce it ... but I tried not to over analyze the scene too much. We can't really try to scientifically explain everything in a very fantasy oriented show. ;)

Or perhaps she did stick him a bit, and underneath that armour is a wound that is currently infecting. (I guess we only have to wait a few days to find out.)

I hard to think that Robert would have appointed Trant if he was worthless as a warrior.

Trant is a Lannister appointee, and likely there because he is a "compromise" choice from the Stormlands. Not sure of how many non-book folks would know about a certain man knight named Horpe who was supposed to be there, but was denounced by Cersei and thus not appointed.

[Le Cygne]

Why the speculation that these little things are causing infected wounds that would cause problems sooner, not later, when it's clear he gets badly wounded in a fight we haven't seen yet. There's a promo where he's in a really bad fight and has blood all on his face and mouth.

[AryaSansa]

Syrio Farrell is alive! He's as swift as a cat, and can easily dodge Trant's sword. He sees with his eyes, so he probably knew he was disadvantaged. He moved like a cat, picked up a sword, parried a blow by Trant, then ran off. Or maybe Farrell was too much for Trant, and Trant ran away! First sword of Bravos does not run, but he is smarter and says no to the god of Death :)

[ServantOnIce]

Syrio is dead . . .

Ser Meryn Trant killed him because he had Armor and a big ____ sword! Let it go folks . . .. some of y'all probably think Eddard is still alive.

[idler]

The Hound isn't the only critic of Trant; seems to be well known what a poor fighter Ser Meryn Trant is. Look at 3x01. Show Ser Bronn doesn't exactly hesitate to take on Trant and Whoever-the-lefthander-is-that-is-with-him. :spank:

Oh well, he might be able to seize a 10 year old girl. If there are a few guards to help him, that is.

Edited for grammar.

[Le Cygne]

Bronn dissed him in season 2, too.

[idler]

Bronn dissed him in season 2, too.

Yep. 2x04 "Careful, now. We don't want to get blood all over your pretty white cloak"

Tyrion to Bronn: "Next time Ser Meryn speaks, kill him." Bronn doesnt give a damn wether Trant has armor or not. Well, at the Eyrie, he didn't give a damn for Ser Vardis Egen's armor, either.

[courtjezteruk]

I am going slightly off topic with this and i have mentioned it elsewhere without response, surely the most important part of this scene is the foreshadowing. Or am i just making up that Arya vs Hound in this scene emulates the Viper vs the mountain.

[iknownothingjonsnow]

I am going slightly off topic with this and i have mentioned it elsewhere without response, surely the most important part of this scene is the foreshadowing. Or am i just making up that Arya vs Hound in this scene emulates the Viper vs the mountain.

???

Well, it involved 2 people... one of which may be dead before too long...

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any similarity at all. It wasn't a duel, Arya didn't poison 'Needle', to our knowledge she didn't even injure him (let alone kill him), there was no unrelenting "you rode him down, you killed him, you slung him over the back of your horse" chant. In what way at all was this even slightly reminiscent of Gregor v Oberyn?

If anything, should The Hound have received a would which will fester (which would be a tremendous letdown, IMO), it would emulate Khal Drogo in Season 1.

[courtjezteruk]

So put the words in the battle to one side, what i saw was an unarmoured opponent against an armoured one, one makes what could be a fatal strike on the other, the other then gets smacked in the head by a Clegane, ending the fight. It may be tenuous but i saw some similarities.

[Bannerman_Forrester]

Now this may be crazy, insane, and the most farfetched theory out there about our great Forel.....

What if, now bare with me, what if he was never the first sword of Braavos, instead he was the first sword of Bravado?

That is to say, he indeed was a humble, good guy, and a skilled fighter. Buuut he was a braavosian sellsword that Eddard found to impress his daughter?

This would also assist with the "He's dead" due to having a final stand to make sure the little girl wasn't hurt.

Now I don't recall how they described him in the books, but if culture is important to the TV series that would disprove the idea of him being a common Bravos, due to them wearing crazy colorful outfits to stand out. Qouting from the wiki "Officials of Braavos, called keyholders and justiciars, wear drab coats of brown and grey." Which if I recall, was exactly what Syro was wearing in the show.

......Did... did I just end up winning an argument against myself? o-o Why am I here, again? I should go to sleep...

[Le Cygne]

Yeah, I'm not seeing any similarity. It's a real disservice to the Hound as a character if it's shown that way.

Arya and the Hound are going in different directions. She's headed to where he once was, and he's headed away.

In the books, he's moved from hating someone (Gregor) to loving someone (Sansa) as what drives him. Arya is doing the opposite, she's lost everyone she loves (her family), and is driven by hate (her kill list).

When he dies, he doesn't mention Gregor at all, the Hound dies there, because he's been dying all along. He's been becoming Sandor again all this time, slowly but surely.

So yeah, not seeing a Gregor parallel, in fact, the opposite.

Also, checking out the promos, they seem to be getting along well enough in the scenes to come. In the books, she thinks of him as Sandor, too. Takes him off her list. Thinks, "I wouldn't have to kill him." Hopefully, the show will capture a bit of the subtlety.