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Reasons Roose Bolton is not so hated in the north afterall.


sanzor

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It's blatantly obvious to anyone that Roose betrayed his King. As for conclusive evidence or eye witness accounts that doesn't matter. The Northmen don't need to put him on trial they will just seek vengeance. The Mountain Clans men are the most isolated of the Northern houses and they know Bolton betrayed Robb.



The only thing keeping him safe is the hostages being held at the Twins. The Umbers would rip his throat out after they were done with the Freys if the Geat Jon was there.


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Well truth be told i as a reader dont even know how the dad-son relationship and messages worked the days from the Hornwood incident(remember -Rodrik Cassel says "White Harbor knights are fighting dreadfort men in the woods"-who gave the order?) till the burning of WF.I as one didnt even figured it out till now why did the Dreadfort garrison follow Ramsay (i know he had some gold but it cant be only that to go against Ser Rodrick's forces that outnumbered them at least 2 to 1),as they shouldve obeyed only Roose.I dont think he anticipated anything from Ramsay...nor did they communicate.The Hornwood thing cant be put on Roose.

Well, Roose said that Ramsey taking the castle and killing the iron born after they allegedly burned WF was to try to clear his name in some sort of way to Cat and company outside of the Twins at the war council, so clearly there is some culpability. Combine that with many Northmen knowing that the Ramsey story is fake and it certainly looks like Roose is protecting his bastard's deeds (including sobbing Arya)

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Yep. Doesn't sound as if anybody is holding a grudge, no ser.

I too,forgot about that thing although i dont remember who it was that said it (mountain clan i think) ,but i still think that they are confused,bolton blood could also mean Ramsay blood for all they know ,and i dont know who they lost in the RW important to be so spiteful.(I dont remember the Flint's joining with Stannis forces)

The fArya thing is a horrifying mistake in its own right.

If the northmen believe that Arya is real, then they have had to listen to "valiant Ned's darling little girl" sobbing and suffering under Ramsay's sexual sadism every night for, what, a month? A year?

If they know that she isn't real, then their long-term plan to hold the North is doomed.

You pretty got me on that i admit.That is a loss-loss for the Boltons.But still if they think it is the real Arya,again Ramsay gets the main blame,and Roose again covers himself saying things like "The bastard killed my trueborn Domeric.They said it was a problem in the bowels..i call it poison".

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As I see it, the only reason Roose was "safe" was because the Northern Houses were recovering from the Red Wedding, after they lost both men and members of their family (who are now hostages). I suppose that even after Roose returned North, many of the information about the Red Wedding was not conclusive and absolute, and many Northern families didn't know how to act about it.

One they knew that there was a Frey involvement, that Tywin Lannister "supported" them, and now Bolton returned with Frey men and a Royal approval, they connected the dots. Still, they first needed to be sure about the situation of their own people before strike or even consider it. Now, they can finally do anything about it

Indeed. Roose was backed up by Tywin and the crown, after Tywin's death and the general Lannister downfall his position is much more fragile - he is literally walking on thin ice.

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I also don't think Ramsey will "take the fall" for Roose in anyway. People in the North will hold Roose responsible for all of Ramsey's actions. Why would people assume that a bastard son was making decision like seizing the Hornwood land on his own?


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I too,forgot about that thing although i dont remember who it was that said it (mountain clan i think) ,but i still think that they are confused,bolton blood could also mean Ramsay blood for all they know ,and i dont know who they lost in the RW important to be so spiteful.(I dont remember the Flint's joining with Stannis forces)

You pretty got me on that i admit.That is a loss-loss for the Boltons.But still if they think it is the real Arya,again Ramsay gets the main blame,and Roose again covers himself saying things like "The bastard killed my trueborn Domeric.They said it was a problem in the bowels..i call it poison".

True, and if Roose were personally more popular this might work. But Roose isn't particularly well-liked -- the nicest thing that we've heard other northmen say about him is that, "we've all known worse" which is damning with faint praise. Are they going to believe that Roose lying in his bedchamber with his Frey wife really had no inkling what Ramsay was doing to Arya? They already know for a fact that he is a Lannister puppet, they know that he knows about what Ramsay did to Lady Hornwood, they know that Roose has not said a word of chastisement to Ramsay or done anything to control him. They can reasonably only conclude that Roose approves of Ramsay's actions or he doesn't care one way or another, both of which would be unacceptable to any supporter of the Starks.

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True, and if Roose were personally more popular this might work. But Roose isn't particularly well-liked -- the nicest thing that we've heard other northmen say about him is that, "we've all known worse" which is damning with faint praise. Are they going to believe that Roose lying in his bedchamber with his Frey wife really had no inkling what Ramsay was doing to Arya? They already know for a fact that he is a Lannister puppet, they know that he knows about what Ramsay did to Lady Hornwood, they know that Roose has not said a word of chastisement to Ramsay or done anything to control him. They can reasonably only conclude that Roose approves of Ramsay's actions or he doesn't care one way or another, both of which would be unacceptable to any supporter of the Starks.

Roose is letting it slip that he fears his son, and also letting it slip that Ramsey killed his natural son... he is attempting to manipulate any of the Lords to off Ramsey.

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It's blatantly obvious to anyone that Roose betrayed his King. As for conclusive evidence or eye witness accounts that doesn't matter. The Northmen don't need to put him on trial they will just seek vengeance. The Mountain Clans men are the most isolated of the Northern houses and they know Bolton betrayed Robb.

The only thing keeping him safe is the hostages being held at the Twins. The Umbers would rip his throat out after they were done with the Freys if the Geat Jon was there.

Lord Celtigar bent the knee to Joffrey when he understood his cause was lost and we found men that got him exonerated (Davos).The bastard of Driftmark bent the knee and was exonerated,so wouldve been Alester Florent( Stannis is known in all the realm for his "justice-ness") .We can see that people dont get their heads chopped off for betraying.They can get dispossed or something like that.What i want to say is that it is obvious he betrayed his king but if no one can prove his physical involvement in the Red Wedding or his Bolton men,it is another typical betrayal that could end with him still keeping his head.

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What i want to say is that it is obvious he betrayed his king but if no one can prove his physical involvement in the Red Wedding or his Bolton men,it is another typical betrayal that could end with him still keeping his head.

The Northerners are not idiots (most of them anyway). Wyman and Robett realize that Roose is lying about his part in the Red Wedding, and everybody else can connect the dots, as other people here have said.

Also, it's not like there is a shortage of witnesses.

The Greatjon (as well as the other captives from the RW) is about to be moved from the Twins to either Casterly Rock or King's Landing. At any point between the two he can be set free by the various Stark-sympathizers who are currently roaming the Riverlands.

Lady Stoneheart also remembers. And presumably, most of the men in her branch of the BWB would know, too.

And then there is Hosteen Frey. He is heading into a trap and should he manage to survive, you can bet that he will be sharply questioned before his execution. And he definitely knows who killed Robb Stark, because he saw the whole thing.

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Lord Celtigar bent the knee to Joffrey when he understood his cause was lost and we found men that got him exonerated (Davos).The bastard of Driftmark bent the knee and was exonerated,so wouldve been Alester Florent( Stannis is known in all the realm for his "justice-ness") .We can see that people dont get their heads chopped off for betraying.They can get dispossed or something like that.What i want to say is that it is obvious he betrayed his king but if no one can prove his physical involvement in the Red Wedding or his Bolton men,it is another typical betrayal that could end with him still keeping his head.

Well Stannis did burn Alester Florent alive for trying to negotiate a peace with the Lannisters, so there's one guy who died for treason. The other two you mentioned were pardoned for their crimes in an effort to keep the peace and strip Stannis of his support that's typical stuff used to end wars.

Roose betrayed and murdered his own King, that's not a typical betrayal and something you will almost always lose your head over.

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The Northerners are not idiots (most of them anyway). Wyman and Robett realize that Roose is lying about his part in the Red Wedding, and everybody else can connect the dots, as other people here have said.

Also, it's not like there is a shortage of witnesses.

The Greatjon is about to be moved from the Twins to Casterly Rock. At any point between the two he can be set free by the various Stark-sympathizers who are currently roaming the Riverlands.

Lady Stoneheart also remembers. And presumably, most of the men in her branch of the BWB would know, too.

And then there is Hosteen Frey. He is heading into a trap and should he manage to survive, you can bet that he will be sharply questioned before his execution. And he definitely knows who killed Robb Stark, because he saw the whole thing.

Well were at the end of ADWD and the Greatjon will be moved.Why would i care about LSH since she doesnt have a maester to send Ravens(to the castles presumably held by GNC lords),nor boats to reach the bogs (if she somehow manages to pass through the twins).+she seems to stay put on her revenge all by herself.

He is involved in the RW but to what extent?By knowing and not doing nothing,like he is doing with Ned's "girl",coz i dont recall anyone saying something about Roose sending his regards.Only "they(Frey's) chopped his direwolf's head and sewn it to his head".

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Well were at the end of ADWD and the Greatjon will be moved.Why would i care about LSH since she doesnt have a maester to send Ravens(to the castles presumably held by GNC lords),nor boats to reach the bogs (if she somehow manages to pass through the twins).+she seems to stay put on her revenge all by herself.

He is involved in the RW but to what extent?By knowing and not doing nothing,like he is doing with Ned's "girl",coz i dont recall anyone saying something about Roose sending his regards.Only "they(Frey's) chopped his direwolf's head and sewn it to his head".

No one has said anything outright but you can tell something is up from Theon's POV at the end as well "normally Roose spoke in a voice not above a whisper he was shouting and for the first time there was something else in his voice fear" I am paraphrasing this not sure what the quote was word for word.

Also, UnCat more rumors they find out who she is or was I'd fear her too...

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Roose is letting it slip that he fears his son, and also letting it slip that Ramsey killed his natural son... he is attempting to manipulate any of the Lords to off Ramsey.

As moves go, it's not half bad. My concern though is that the northmen won't really respect the notion that Roose Bolton, who has led men into battle, who wears the flayed man of the Dreadfort, is too afraid to even say "boo" to his bratty bastard son. If they accept that, then they may view Bolton as a weakling and not fit to be Warden of the North.

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As moves go, it's not half bad. My concern though is that the northmen won't really respect the notion that Roose Bolton, who has led men into battle, who wears the flayed man of the Dreadfort, is too afraid to even say "boo" to his bratty bastard son. If they accept that, then they may view Bolton as a weakling and not fit to be Warden of the North.

Its a fine line, Killing his son himself marks him kinslayer. Letting it be known that he is ok with someone else killing him.... well that makes an interesting scapegoat.

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Now that Stannis has his hands on Theon and knows about Roose being behind the Red Wedding, it will be interesting to see what he does with that information. Stannis is known to expose secrets that help support his claim, just give him a few ravens.


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Nope.


1.So first he betrays Robett Glover...sending him to Duskendale.I dont think that it seems such a clear betrayal to send your men to their peril,it can easily be taken as stupidity,bad battle commander.

2.The men that he left behind to their peril at the Battle of the Ruby Ford -Wylis is caught and we all know how sane he is now,there isnt any other notable lord to get captured or escape to testify against Bolton

3.The most interesting part -The Red Wedding

1. But only Roose is not seen as stupid, and is known for his cunning. If it were the Great Jon making such a decision, then perhaps, but no one privy to the politics and history of the North would believe this an accident from Roose Bolton.

2. Notable lords, maybe not. However, it wouldn't take many reports of the Ruby Ford to further suspicions regarding Bolton.

3. No loyal bannerman of the North would have been able to walk away from the Red Wedding with his men at arms in tact.

[4. Hastily marrying his bastard to Lord Stark's "daughter"]

[5. Seizing Winterfell in the name of the false king that beheaded Lord Stark]

I would say that any 1 of these would be enough to warrant inquiry. 2 of these acts alone, IMO, would likely bring an armed force to collect Bolton for trial. Three, and the loyal lords and bannermen of the North (mourning for their liege-lord and hungry for justice), will quickly judge him to be complicit if not the traitor behind the plan. And we do not know what other slights he has made in dealing with these other Houses of the North.

The North Remembers, and they WILL demand his head.

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