Septa Lemore identity (and why it matters) v.2

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Tyene's mother is from the Reach. Arianne, Tyene and other Sand Snakes visited her, Arianne remembers that in one of her chapters :3

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Double post, sorry!

[Jay21]

Are there any missing Iron Born women that she could turn out to be? The only reason that I ask is that she CPRd Tyrion and the only other instance of that that we've seen in with Damphair and his drowned men. If the Iron Men see it as a sacred ritual I can't see the rest of Westeros using it as a regular medical remedy.

[blacken]

Are there any missing Iron Born women that she could turn out to be? The only reason that I ask is that she CPRd Tyrion and the only other instance of that that we've seen in with Damphair and his drowned men. If the Iron Men see it as a sacred ritual I can't see the rest of Westeros using it as a regular medical remedy.

I doubt any Ironborn would be invested in helping out a Targ who could unite the realm, they are successful atm because the realm is breaking apart. Also what would an Ironborn know of the Seven?

And no i can't think of any Ironborn women who are floating around, they don't get loads of mentions.

I also think its likely that any river or sea dwelling people know cpr, even if they learned it from the Ironborn initially it is pretty useful information to not be spread about.

[blacken]

On the idea of Dornish influence or Tyene's mother being involved - why would Doran have sent his eldest son halfway round the world to try and marry Danaerys if they could have snapped up Aegon and married him to Arianne?

Aegon has a better claim and is physically closer to Dorne. Additionally if they knew of both but suspected Aegon was not real, or found out after the marriage pact with Viserys was made, or his proposal of Arianne would not be accepted because Aegon was destined to wed Danaerys, well then Doran would not be acting as he does. He has spent years avoiding war and now he is risking war with Aegon by picking Danaerys' side?

[sagewich]

Back to Lemora maybe being Ashara.

Connington was annoyed with Rhaegar's great friendship with Dayne. As was Selmy.

In ADwD, Selmy reveals his love for Ashara. He thinks to himself it all began with the tournament the KG's Whent got his father to drum up in the false spring tourney at Harrenhal. When Rhaegar chose the Stark girl as queen of love and beauty, it "all went awry."

Selmy reveals that Ned dishonored Ashara at Harrenhal. As pointed out above Caitlyn outright asked about Ashara, and Ned put an end to the gossiping.

From Ned we know that Ashara was alive to receive Arthur Dayne's sword.

Ned and Selmy indicate Ashara threw herself from the tower over a still born daughter...and Selmy believes the dishonor that Ned visited upon her.

Unless I completely overlooked it, I haven't read of anyone who was there when Ashara jumped. I never thought she did. When I read what Selmy said about her, I was sure she did not take a leap.

Yes, I think she is Lemore (o, prove me wrong again, Martin). I am reading that portion of Tyrion enjoying her baths. Eye color has yet to be mentioned.

Why it matters -- she is there because her brother would have wanted someone looking after any Targ. And it R + L = J, and Ashara showed up, Caitlyn would have have had a puppy. She never thought she had a true rival for Ned's heart.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Back to Lemora maybe being Ashara.

Connington was annoyed with Rhaegar's great friendship with Dayne. As was Selmy.

Nowhere in the books is this stated. The only time Jon has mentioned Arthur, he seemed to have done it in a positive way. And I can't remember Selmy saying anything against it.

Selmy reveals that Ned dishonored Ashara at Harrenhal. As pointed out above Caitlyn outright asked about Ashara, and Ned put an end to the gossiping.

Barry never reveals it was Ned. He said that Ashara turned to a Stark, whatever that means for him. Also, Catelyn is only repeating the gossip she has heard. It's likely Ned's men have heard he returned from Dorne with Jon, and he visited Starfall. They joined the dots.

From Ned we know that Ashara was alive to receive Arthur Dayne's sword.

Ned and Selmy indicate Ashara threw herself from the tower over a still born daughter...and Selmy believes the dishonor that Ned visited upon her.

Nope. Barry believes is because of a still born daughter, or maybe a lover. Edric Dayne seems to believe is due to broken heart. The thing is, none of them actually knows why she died.

Unless I completely overlooked it, I haven't read of anyone who was there when Ashara jumped. I never thought she did. When I read what Selmy said about her, I was sure she did not take a leap.

They know the exact place where she jumped from. If she had simply gone missing, they would be saying she disappeared and probably killed herself. The fact they know the place, could means someone saw her doing it.

Yes, I think she is Lemore (o, prove me wrong again, Martin). I am reading that portion of Tyrion enjoying her baths. Eye color has yet to be mentioned.

Ashara had purple eyes. That's the first thing a man like Tyrion should have mentioned about her. Yet, he didn't. He also identifies her as a woman in her forties, and Ashara's age now is probably early or middle 30s.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Back to Lemora maybe being Ashara.

Connington was annoyed with Rhaegar's great friendship with Dayne. As was Selmy.

Where is that mentioned?

Selmy reveals that Ned dishonored Ashara at Harrenhal. As pointed out above Caitlyn outright asked about Ashara, and Ned put an end to the gossiping.

Where you read it? Because it isn't in the books.

Ned and Selmy indicate Ashara threw herself from the tower over a still born daughter...and Selmy believes the dishonor that Ned visited upon her.

Again as I said before; Where you read it? Because it isn't in the books.

Unless I completely overlooked it, I haven't read of anyone who was there when Ashara jumped. I never thought she did. When I read what Selmy said about her, I was sure she did not take a leap.

There is no way of people knowing exactly how she died if there was no one there. If she just had disappeared then it would be just that; Ashara would had disappeared not killed herself by hitting the sea or drown.

Yes, I think she is Lemore (o, prove me wrong again, Martin). I am reading that portion of Tyrion enjoying her baths. Eye color has yet to be mentioned.

And that is why 99.99999% she isn't Ashara.

[alienarea]

Where is that mentioned?

Where you read it? Because it isn't in the books.

Again as I said before; Where you read it? Because it isn't in the books.

There is no way of people knowing exactly how she died if there was no one there. If she just had disappeared then it would be just that; Ashara would had disappeared not killed herself by hitting the sea or drown.

And that is why 99.99999% she isn't Ashara.

:agree: except for: And that is why 99.99999% she isn't Ashara.

Because if Tyrion were to mention purple eyes it would be obvious?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

:agree: except for: And that is why 99.99999% she isn't Ashara.

Because if Tyrion were to mention purple eyes it would be obvious?

If the eyes would be noticeable for Tyrion not to notice them is sloppy. bad writing and *lying* all the same time. I cannot think for any possiple way for them not to be mentioned or noticed in a way that it would be logical, clever, not cheap tricks and according to GRRM's style.

[mindcrash]

Ashara turned to Brandon, not Ned. He was the hornball ladies man, it is known. He put a baby inside of her, and whether that baby died, or turned out to be Jon, or that she killed herself, well, that's up for speculation innit?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Ashara turned to Brandon, not Ned. He was the hornball ladies man, it is known. He put a baby inside of her, and whether that baby died, or turned out to be Jon, or that she killed herself, well, that's up for speculation innit?

It isn''t known to which Stark she turned to that is mere speculation.

Howeven in orde to her baby from HH to be Jon she mast have been pregnant for two years. Not even in GRRTH someone can be pregnant for two years.

[mindcrash]

It isn''t known to which Stark she turned to that is mere speculation.

Howeven in orde to her baby from HH to be Jon she mast have been pregnant for two years. Not even in GRRTH someone can be pregnant for two years.

As is most of what is discussed on these boards. But throughout Ned's POVs, is there any hint that he would ever consider besmirching his honor? He's known to be rigid about it, nearly to Stannis proportions. He wouldn't go dipping his pen in any ink that he wasn't married to, it's completely out of character.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

As is most of what is discussed on these boards. But throughout Ned's POVs, is there any hint that he would ever consider besmirching his honor? He's known to be rigid about it, nearly to Stannis proportions. He wouldn't go dipping his pen in any ink that he wasn't married to, it's completely out of character.

Not really, usually the theories have some clues. The fact that Brandon liked women means nothing. If Brandon like women=every woman who had sex, was with Brandon they what a busy boy he was.

And no there is nothing to say that a. Ned wasn't planning to marry Ash, b. that he or Ash would see sex as a dishonoring, c. that Ned was a virgin prior to his marriage to Cat.

[Hippocras]

"Looked to Stark"

1. Absolutely not the same thing as "dishonoured by" Stark.

2. It only says Stark. This could just as easily mean Lyanna or Benjen as Brandon or Ned. Since the wording absolutely is NOT equivalent to saying "dishonoured by" Stark, all four Starks who were present are candidates as the person Ashara "looked to".

Clearly Ashara was dishonoured in some way at Harrenhal. However the assumption that this was done by some Stark is misplaced.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Clearly Ashara was dishonoured in some way at Harrenhal. However the assumption that this was done by some Stark is misplaced.

Also dishonoured is what Barry thinks. We don't quite know what kind of dishonouring it was (sex, gossiping , humiliation and so on)

[mindcrash]

Wouldn't Barristan have been at least in his 40s by the time of Harrenhall if not older? And he's in love with what, an 18 year old? Old perv.

[mindcrash]

Not really, usually the theories have some clues. The fact that Brandon liked women means nothing. If Brandon like women=every woman who had sex, was with Brandon they what a busy boy he was.

And no there is nothing to say that a. Ned wasn't planning to marry Ash, b. that he or Ash would see sex as a dishonoring, c. that Ned was a virgin prior to his marriage to Cat.

We have evidence all over the place that Ned was a particularly honorable guy. There's nothing to say that Ned was planning to marry Ashara, in fact, wouldn't it have been mentioned if they were betrothed? After all, it wouldn't be up to Ned who he married now would it? It would be up to his father, right? You're making a lot of assumptions about Ned, especially with so much concrete evidence that it isn't something he'd do or even consider. Anything linking him to Ashara is rumor, other than having danced with her at the tourney...which Brandon arranged for him.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Wouldn't Barristan have been at least in his 40s by the time of Harrenhall if not older? And he's in love with what, an 18 year old? Old perv.

Jon A. was 65 when he married and beded Lysa who was 17-18

We have evidence all over the place that Ned was a particularly honorable guy. There's nothing to say that Ned was planning to marry Ashara, in fact, wouldn't it have been mentioned if they were betrothed? After all, it wouldn't be up to Ned who he married now would it? It would be up to his father, right? You're making a lot of assumptions about Ned, especially with so much concrete evidence that it isn't something he'd do or even consider. Anything linking him to Ashara is rumor, other than having danced with her at the tourney...which Brandon arranged for him.

No one said that they were engaged. I say that they had sex and they promised to marry but he had to broke his promises in order to marry Cat. Actualy the fact that Ash danced with Ned is far more that Ashara doing nothing with Brandon. Its ridiculous to say because Brandon liked women he had sex with Ashara. The most probable was that someone else dishonored Ash. imnsho like Aerys did with Joanna, and she turned to Ned which doesn't mean sex.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Ashara is Quaithe.

Septa Lemore is Wenda the White Fawn.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/111215-wenda-the-white-fawn-septa-lemore-and-the-toynes/

It is known.