Lannisters view on the Jon Arryn death?

[Screwy]

Hey guys, my first post here, I've been lurking about for a week or so and enjoyed all the insight that the forum has provided me!

I've read all the books a few years back and have forgotten some details in the meanwhile, so I started to read again.

One of the things that slipped my mind was that it weren't the Lannisters who killed Jon Arryn, but Littlefinger. I was reminded of this in a pretty lame scene of GoT last week, and that got me thinking:

In Bran II chapter of AGot, bran overhears Cersei and Jaime talking pretty causally of Lysa, and how she might grow balder in Eyrie and she might go to Robert. Jaime remarks that she'd have allready done so if she knew anything.

Pretty guilty talk, in some way.

Common belief was that Jon died of sickness.

So, from Lannisters point of view, there are two options:

1.) They believe that Jon was genuinely sick. In that case, why do they worry about Lysa at all? Hand of king, miracolusly died, his wife has left the capitol... What's the problem? Why assume that she could know anything?

On the other hand, if Jon had really told Cersei that he knew their secret, why should they believe that he got so sick all of a sudden, in the deciding moment? Kind of naive...

2.) They don't buy that. They assume poisoning (also, Pycelle could reckognise it and tell only Cersei about it, leaving Jon to die and telling everyone it was some sickness).

In this case, why aren't they worried about the poisoner? Who is this other major player who offs the hand of the king? Why do they behave as if they were guilty when alone, instead of doing everything to find out who is remorseless enough to kill someone that only they have a motive to kill, effectively framing them? (It turns out that this man also poisons their son later on).

Please share your toughts!!

[TheNorthernWarrior]

You are right, they talk as if they were guilty of it or for had some reason to suspect foul play. So either:

1) They suspected foul play but were clueless as to who it could be, but assumed Lysa would blame them.

2) Littlefinger, who we know was behind the poisoning, was playing both sides. Littlefinger whisperrf things into the Lannister's ears that made them paranoid of Jon Arryn, he arranges on their behalf to have him poisoned but does not tell them by who.

[rhaegartheprince]

So I read the books, and have been keeping up with the show. With the recent developments of the show, I decided to start re-reading the books. And I noticed that same thing about in the scene where Bran fell. In the books there's definitely something there about Jon Arryn and the Lannisters. But in the TV show Petyr says he killed him. I think this could be explained by two reasons:

1.) Explained above. Basically Littlefinger double-crossing them.

OR

2.) What if Petyr killed them in the show but the Lannisters did in the books? I read somewhere that the books and the shows aren't really brothers, they're more like cousins. Same basic plotline but things are different We've seen that already with a lot of things. So what if in GoT, it was Petyr that killed Jon Arryn without the Lannister's knowledge, and AGoT(book) it was the Lannisters? As far as I remember there is no indication in the books that Petyr had anything to do with it. Although I guess another possibility is that it could be revealed in TWoW and the show spoiled it for us.

Anyway that's my two cents.

[Elkrider]

In the books it was definitely Littlefinger who caused Jon Arryn's death via Lysa. I'd say doublecrossing is the most likely option.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Cersei knew Jon Arryn was onto them with the whole "Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen are bastards" thing, and she feared he might have told Lysa Arryn something about it, which would mean that after Lysa brought herself and her son to safety at the Eyrie, she could let something slip to Robert.

In which case Cersei and Jaime would die, for sure.

They are talking about Jon Arryn having known their secret, and the fact that Jon might have shared some info with Lysa, since they were husband and wife. With Lysa untouchable, should she know such information, she would be a big danger to Lysa.

What Cersei means about the accusations that Lysa might make, is about Jon Arryns death. Jon Arryn died suddenly and quickly after learning the secret. If Jon had shared Cersei's secret with Lysa, Lysa might see his death as something suspicious, and accuse Cersei of having done so, which could lead to an investigation, and the discovery of the truth about Cersei's kids.

[Odon]

Remember too the Lannisters aren't completely guiltless -- Jon Arryn was recovering, but Maester Pycelle interrupted his treatment, knowing that Cersei would want him dead.

And as we discover, Cersei is so paranoid it really doesn't matter. As far as she's concerned, in the Game of Thrones you play or you're a naive idiot; so she probably assumes any number of families might have done it to advance their own agenda.

[PurpleSerpents]

I think it's likely that Cersei intended to kill Jon Arryn. Littlefinger arranging for him to be poisoned without telling Cersei who would be doing the deed, definitely a possibility. Or perhaps two separate plots going on at the same time unbeknownst to each other. Either way, there must be some reason why Cersei and Jaime seem to be admitting guilt, they must have done something.