The cinematography/style of this show drives me crazy (only TV spoiler)

[Bridgeburners]

I have felt this way for the whole show, but I kinda wanted to get it off my chest after tonight's episode (Tyrion's trial). The way the camera zooms in on faces during dramatic tension or a showdown, the way the music tries to capture the mood, it's all things you would expect on television, but I feel like it's heavily exaggerated on this show. It very much has the overly dramatic soap opera feel. To be clear, this thread isn't about this episode/scene in particular, but about the show in general. I'm just using this scene as an example of my general argument.

Take the trial scene from tonight's episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdA9H8Y0kUE

I really loved that scene from the book. Tyrion's whole schtick about being on trial for being a dwarf was one of my favourite speeches of his. But then that (the above) happened on the show and, well, it ruined it for me. First there was the overacting by Dinklage, which feels like a move on the director saying "hey, let them know how dramatic this scene really is". Then the extremely sappy "horrified crowd" ensues, with everyone yelling "oh, well I never!" Then that dramatic close-up of all the important characters' reactions to his "trial by combat" demand, followed by the worst part (which the video spared us of), the close-up on Tyrion's face and then Tywin's as they stared each other down at the end. All this over-dramatization completely robs the scene of its authenticity, and it reeks of the directors trying to spoon feed us what the stakes are in this scene, as if we couldn't have picked it up ourselves.

Contrast this style to my favourite show, The Wire. Here's one of my favourite scenes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA5za4VsskM

This is one of the most important, and most powerful speeches on the show, which basically moulds a main character's career. Yet there was no dramatic music in the background to tell us how important it is, just the office paging people periodically as we would expect in the background. The extent of their cinematography magic was a few cuts to Carver listening to the speech, for us to gauge his reaction; subtle enough and not shoved in our face. We can feel how strong it is without the show dramatizing it to death, and in fact the authenticity of the scene makes it even stronger in my opinion.

I'm not asking GoT to use the same cinematography and style as The Wire, considering not everybody really favours the style of the latter. But I put those up there to show the stark contrast. I feel like the producers and directors understand how big of a machine this GoT turned into, and they feel like they have to match the popularity of this show with theatrical dramatization, so that the show itself can reflect the mood and hype of the audience. But they have gone way too far with it, to the point that I have a hard time taking many of the scenes seriously.

[eliamo]

I agree. At times, the show can be very overt and disappointingly ham-fisted. The viewers are made exactly to feel how the show runners want them to feel, when they don't really need to be. The desired feelings could be reached in the audience, and in perhaps a more acute way, without a red flag being waved in their faces. Plus, the dramatic zooms following Tyrion's speech didn't seem quite justified: asking for a trail by combat is certainly a dramatic event, but not an incredible revelation. It's like the director was trying to make the audience think what Tyrion said was more impactful than it was. But that's just my two cents :)

[iknownothingjonsnow]

I do think the show has become overly superficial and manipulative. The 'Dany crucifixion' scene would also fit into what you're saying, I believe, with that 1 guy's repetitive screaming in perfect rhythm. You can tell there's never a conversation on set about what a character might honestly do or what his motivation would truly be. Who cares if the love story actually makes sense? As long as we play pretty music at the end then everyone will feel fulfilled and go home happy.

GRRM = brilliant at exploiting the underlying reality of complex situations

D&D = brilliant at exploiting the petty emotions of stupid people

[igrewupinKL]

I think it comes down to the 2 types of shows, The Wire (Realism) and GOT (Fantasy)

The close-ups during those two scenes weren't that different except in the end of the GOT one after tyrion says he wants a trial by combat.

On another note, I don't think dinklage over acted, his reaction was what i expected. i just expected there would be more testimony to get him to that stage. I felt the trial was a bit short.

[Miodrag]

In all honesty, GOT was never remarkable in those technical aspects OP's talking about. Some mistakes can be attributed to early sloppiness that can be somewhat understandable; for example, the scene of Ned’s arrest, when he meets with Littlefinger and Varys before entering The Throne Room, camera cuts from his face to their faces; if you look at the shots of Ned’s face, you’ll see they’re placed out of order (go to 0:30 mark):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8afaQFLSTH4

But OK, let’s say it was the first season, and they were inexperienced and in a hurry. However, the last episode suggests the editing didn’t improve at all. Something’s very wrong in Ramsay/Yara showdown (in technical aspect; as for writing, everything’s wrong there, but let’s leave that aside here): at one moment, Ramsay’s making love with a girl, and next time we see him, he’s all covered in blood, but no explanation is given. In other threads, few posters speculated some material was cut from there for god knows what reason, and a shot from the trailer (girl slapping Ramsay) really isn’t there in the final version. In every case, something important happened to Ramsay of-screen.

Then there’s the Red Wedding scene. As noticed last year, everything was staged too obviously. There was no chaos that would inevitably ensue, which would give the scene a far more realistic tone. It looked like all the Northerners were lined up for the moment each of them is to be slaughtered. And then, the worst part in my opinion: the music! Not the in-scene music, but soundtrack. Not only that it’s overly suggestive/manipulative, just like during Tyrion’s speech at the trial, but it’s also too loud: it would be more effective to hear people screaming and the steel clanking, without any soundtrack in the background. But, the soundtrack is generally and vastly overused in the show. It’s not about the musical themes themselves, I happen to enjoy them very much on their own, but they’re used too frequently and too manipulatively all the time. One of the best directed episodes in the show was the third episode of the second season, where director Alik Sakharov used the music only in the scenes with little or no dialogue in them – strange enough, the same guy directed the last episode, where he’s done exactly the opposite in the Tyrion’s speech.

Action scenes are very sloppy, too. Now, that can be due to time constrains, because good action scenes require a lot of takes. But, on the other hand, by now they could’ve learned not to put prolonged fight scenes in the first place. But no, based on Karl/Jon fight (in which, by the way, Karl not even once attempted to use his two knives as two separate weapons, which is pretty ridiculous), it looks like they actually see nothing wrong with it. And then, there’s the “Blackwater” episode, and the battle in which, according to Neil Marshall’s famous interview (“I represent the pervert side of the audience...”), he, Marshal (the director), changed numerous things in order for the battle to look more “effective”. Now, he’s been the last minute replacement, so he didn’t know better, but how come nobody on the set told him that it may be a tad ridiculous to have all those people and heads cut in half by a single strike?! (Overall, he did a pretty decent job with action scenes in that episode, but occasionally ridiculous gore did stand out.)

[L’Age d’or]

It's a TV show not a Cannes participant, OP you are a BB fan I assume? You should be too familiar with melodrama, overacting, repetitive close ups and the like.

[Le Cygne]

I didn't care for the trial scene... I think it was the direction more than anything.

[DaveyJoe]

The Wire is in a league of its own, and the only dramatic series to not use a background score, aside from the season-ending montages.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I agree, I guess. My beef with the cinematography is that it's too conservative, too textbook. I'm baffled at how Hannibal (in NBC of all networks!) delivers just the best directing and style every episode

[Queen of Whores]

I agree, I guess. My beef with the cinematography is that it's too conservative, too textbook. I'm baffled at how Hannibal (in NBC of all networks!) delivers just the best directing and style every episode

I agree that Game of Thrones' directing and cinematography are very bland and unoriginal. I've never been in awe of anything in Game of Thrones after 36 episodes like I have been after the long take at the end of True Detective's fourth episode.

[Prince_Snow]

I think it comes down to the 2 types of shows, The Wire (Realism) and GOT (Fantasy)

The close-ups during those two scenes weren't that different except in the end of the GOT one after tyrion says he wants a trial by combat.

On another note, I don't think dinklage over acted, his reaction was what i expected. i just expected there would be more testimony to get him to that stage. I felt the trial was a bit short

I second that, i also felt it was a bit rushed but i can imagine why. Don't we forget that it's also a buisness, it cost a lot to make an episode and that's why we might also have some surprises in season 5 or 6 not seeing some great characters because of that producing point of view (and from a story telling point of view sometimes it can make sens to do it in a tv show).

There is also differents directors who have worked or will work on the show that's why every episode is not technically equal in my opinion.

.

[DaveyJoe]

Anyway if we have some fans of The Wire in this thread, you might enjoy this video I made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS5uI3a916o

[ghost23]

One of the best directed episodes in the show was the third episode of the second season, where director Alik Sakharov used the music only in the scenes with little or no dialogue in them – strange enough, the same guy directed the last episode, where he’s done exactly the opposite in the Tyrion’s speech.

There is basically no music used through most of Tyrion's trial. When his speech happened, there is very minimal background music. If that amount of background music is too distracting for you, than I don't know what to say. The prominent music only starts after he demands the trial by combat and lasts for about 20 seconds.

People are seriously over exaggerating this point about the overuse of music by cherry picking parts of the show where it is used prominently and ignoring all the times when they do let the drama or the action play out. I understand that people feel that it was too loud during the red wedding, but that was the climax of the entire season. Look at the Hound fight in E401, no soundtrack, just swords and grunting.

[Frey Pies]

Tyrion's speech has been built up to for 3.5 seasons, a culmination of all that he's endured during his life. Of course it's going to be dramatic. The crowd's reaction is nothing more than anticipation of the trial by combat, and a reaction to the venom and malice behind his words- they are as captivated as us. Also, personally, I prefer a good soundtrack over none at all. Tyrion's speech is the finest moment of GoT bar none, in my opinion.

[Le Cygne]

The speech and showing the reactions is not the point, it's that the obvious way it was shot actually takes away from the drama, and it's about direction, too. It's like there's a checklist, Dinklage chewing up the scenery, cut to standard reaction shot 1, 2, 3, repeat, dramatic music, done.

[Frey Pies]

The speech and showing the reactions is not the point, it's that the obvious way it was shot actually takes away from the drama, and it's about direction, too. It's like there's a checklist, Dinklage chewing up the scenery, cut to standard reaction shot 1, 2, 3, repeat, dramatic music, done.

Except it doesn't, most people thing it adds to the drama. Many people refer to it as one of GoT's finest scenes.

[eliamo]

Except it doesn't, most people thing it adds to the drama. Many people refer to it as one of GoT's finest scenes.

And it undoubtedly was - but it had the potential to be even better. The reaction shots and dramatic zooms at the end of Tyrion's speech seemed like they came right out a 101 directing textbook, and while that isn't necessarily a bad thing, it does emphasise the show's general complacence and lack of experimentation in the cinematography department. Case in point: I can't even remember the last time a shot in the show impressed me at a creative level.

So yeah, the direction of the show is very by the numbers. I'd really like to see some more innovation in the cinematography because GoT deserves it.

[oierem]

For a fantasy show, GoT doesn't use much music at all, and most of the time is background atmospheric music.

[Le Cygne]

The music is fine. Showing reactions is fine. The speech is fine. That's not what we are talking about. It's the way it's all presented. And that has nothing to do with the genre. It's about telling a story on film.

[Mr Fixit]

The music is fine. Showing reactions is fine. The speech is fine.

I agree. Couldn't have said it better myself!