The cinematography/style of this show drives me crazy (only TV spoiler)

[Bridgeburners]

Except it doesn't, most people thing it adds to the drama. Many people refer to it as one of GoT's finest scenes.

If that's so, the credit goes entirely to GRRM. That was a fine scene in the book, one of my favourite talking points of Tyrion. It was one of the speeches that stuck with me. But I pictured it like I picture basically every scene when I read it - people talking, with normal human interaction tendencies, in a real world setting. Much like the Colvin & Carver scene I linked. That's how I get immersed, by feeling the realness of the scene, and knowing that the words and ideas exchanged have all the power.

You're right, the music was nice and ambient throughout the trial. Then, as Tyrion was demanding a trial by battle, it rose dramatically, and played the signature Rains of Castamere song in a powerful foreboding tune as the camera zoomed in on the reaction faces of all the important characters, finishing with a panning zoom on Tyron's face and then on Tywin's as the music climaxed, to show that they're facing off dramatically. To me the entire immersion was lost as the director bashed me over the head with a blunt stick saying "hey! Bridgeburners! This is dramatic, pay attention!"

Others have mentioned earlier that the cinematography and score is used in a way to manipulate the audience's emotions. In a way, it leads the drama of the show rather than following it as it generally should.

[Le Cygne]

This scene was filmed better (his trial at the Eyrie):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc93gQRRKbA

[eliamo]

This scene was filmed better (his trial at the Eyrie):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc93gQRRKbA

Tonally, that is a very different scene to the trial in E06. It shouldn't be compared. The scene in the most recent episode was more concerned with presenting the hate, vulnerability and darkness in Tyrion's character. His speech at the end is a culmination of everything that's been thrown at him in life. The scene you posted has no emotional heft to it and because of that I don't think you can claim that it was directed comparably better. I'm not saying I thought the E06 trial was especially well directed, because it wasn't, but I do think that the scene you posted had a very different moods that completely separates it from the E06 trial.

[eliamo]

I think it comes down to the 2 types of shows, The Wire (Realism) and GOT (Fantasy)

The close-ups during those two scenes weren't that different except in the end of the GOT one after tyrion says he wants a trial by combat.

On another note, I don't think dinklage over acted, his reaction was what i expected. i just expected there would be more testimony to get him to that stage. I felt the trial was a bit short.

OK, but why should the genre of a show influence the way in which it's directed? It's not as if certain directorial techniques only apply to the fantasy genre.

[igrewupinKL]

OK, but why should the genre of a show influence the way in which it's directed? It's not as if certain directorial techniques only apply to the fantasy genre.

The way a movie/show is shot will give a different feel to it. i don't know just suggesting the genre may have influence on style of direction. Fantasy gives you more freedom to be over-dramatic in my opinion

[eliamo]

The way a movie/show is shot will give a different feel to it. i don't know just suggesting the genre may have influence on style of direction. Fantasy gives you more freedom to be over-dramatic in my opinion

I guess that's true to an extent, but I think that in the case of Game of Thrones (which is grounded in reality despite the fantasy elements) it's important to keep the drama unexaggerated. Makes it more realistic and less melodramatic.

[Angmar]

The only thing I dislike from the directing/script of the show is the character presentation. Whereas in the book characters make questionable actions and we are led to think of them in different ways (as in, each of us have our own interpretation of the character and none is more "invalid" than the other), the show is always so black and white "Tyrion is always good and smart and witty, Dany is a flawless awesome mary sue, Arya is a badass who can kill whoever she wants!".

The characters turn bland and into typical cliches instead of being their own original unique selves they were in the books. I don't like how so many people look at Arya's story and aren't a bit sympathetic or thinking "wait, this isn't right for a little girl to go through". Like people actually expect to go Batman on our asses and say "oh yeah, that's awesome!"

[eliamo]

The only thing I dislike from the directing/script of the show is the character presentation. Whereas in the book characters make questionable actions and we are led to think of them in different ways (as in, each of us have our own interpretation of the character and none is more "invalid" than the other), the show is always so black and white "Tyrion is always good and smart and witty, Dany is a flawless awesome mary sue, Arya is a badass who can kill whoever she wants!".

The characters turn bland and into typical cliches instead of being their own original unique selves they were in the books. I don't like how so many people look at Arya's story and aren't a bit sympathetic or thinking "wait, this isn't right for a little girl to go through". Like people actually expect to go Batman on our asses and say "oh yeah, that's awesome!"

That's very true - Arya, most notably, does not come across like she does in the books at all. Hopefully Tyrion continues down the dark road we saw hinted at in E06. I hope he's at least half as twisted as he was in ADWD.

[Frey Pies]

The only thing I dislike from the directing/script of the show is the character presentation. Whereas in the book characters make questionable actions and we are led to think of them in different ways (as in, each of us have our own interpretation of the character and none is more "invalid" than the other), the show is always so black and white "Tyrion is always good and smart and witty, Dany is a flawless awesome mary sue, Arya is a badass who can kill whoever she wants!".

The characters turn bland and into typical cliches instead of being their own original unique selves they were in the books. I don't like how so many people look at Arya's story and aren't a bit sympathetic or thinking "wait, this isn't right for a little girl to go through". Like people actually expect to go Batman on our asses and say "oh yeah, that's awesome!"

She is not shown as flawless and awesome at all. In last three episodes, she has been making and is being questioned about her controversial actions. Oathkeeper had an awesome shot of her, that basically screamed "dictator". Her development is going exactly as it was in the books.

[Le Cygne]

Yeah, that's a good point about characterization. I think the Eyrie trial scene is a good comparison. He's fighting for his life there, too. He seems more a part of what's going on there. Rather than he is what's going on.

I added the link below...

[Bridgeburners]

The way a movie/show is shot will give a different feel to it. i don't know just suggesting the genre may have influence on style of direction. Fantasy gives you more freedom to be over-dramatic in my opinion

That would be an okay argument, except that it's aSoIaF that the fantasy is based off. GRRM made it very clear that these were books based on real characters behaving like, and motivated by the nature of, real human beings, in a minimalist fantasy setting. If he decided to be all pretty and poetic about every scene, which plays out like a mythology story and throws a fantasy element as symbolism for everything (like Tolkien) then maybe I would agree somewhat (although the blatant spoon-feeding directing would still annoy the hell out of me).

It's a TV show not a Cannes participant, OP you are a BB fan I assume? You should be too familiar with melodrama, overacting, repetitive close ups and the like.

I admit there was some overacting in BB (particularly on Jesse's part). But the director didn't shove it in my face, and somehow they just felt more authentic. Actually, Jesse's outbursts felt very believable because they were very much in line with how they established his character from day one. But that doesn't even matter, Dinklage's overacting was minor, and it's a very minor point of mine; he's a great actor in general. In fact I don't think I should have even added it, because I wanted this to be about the direction style. I don't see anything close to the same kind of fault in Breaking Bad as I do in GoT. And gods know the dialogue, which is about as cheesy in GoT as the direction style, doesn't come anywhere near the BB dialogue.

[Red Tiger]

First there was the overacting by Dinklage

Oh for fucks sake.....

[iknownothingjonsnow]

Tonally, that is a very different scene to the trial in E06. It shouldn't be compared. The scene in the most recent episode was more concerned with presenting the hate, vulnerability and darkness in Tyrion's character. His speech at the end is a culmination of everything that's been thrown at him in life. The scene you posted has no emotional heft to it and because of that I don't think you can claim that it was directed comparably better. I'm not saying I thought the E06 trial was especially well directed, because it wasn't, but I do think that the scene you posted had a very different moods that completely separates it from the E06 trial.

That's precisely the point. The dialogue/premise has more than enough inherent drama - it doesn't need any "drama" artificially infused through cheap cinematographic tricks.

[Le Cygne]

I read a good article about how watching the series all at once (binge viewing) helps, will try to find it.

Here's the article, he talks about "scenes per hour" and focus:

http://justtv.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/the-scenic-rhythms-of-game-of-thrones/

[boojam]

I totally disagree.

I have found very slips in the cinematography very very rare.

Besides production values , art, set and costume design, it's one of the best parts of the show.

It has won one Emmy and several awards.

Some of the best cinematography for TV I have ever seen.

[King Tommen]

In reading this thread in it's entirety, I can safely say that not one person making complaints here has any idea what cinematography actually means. Like, at all. Wikipedia/Google is your friend if it's not your area of expertise either.

I think the word you want is "direction" and as an aside, the directors who work on GoT are some of the most acclaimed working in television today (and participate in some of the shows that are mentioned here that can do no wrong) so you aren't going to get any better in terms of craftsmen.

[Konradsmith]

Other than Boardwalk Empire I'd say GoT is the most cinematic show that HBO has had. The Wire in particular, despite its great writing, interesting narrative etc. was very televisual and sometimes even boringly shot.

[DaveyJoe]

In reading this thread in it's entirety, I can safely say that not one person making complaints here has any idea what cinematography actually means. Like, at all. Wikipedia/Google is your friend if it's not your area of expertise either.

I think the word you want is "direction" and as an aside, the directors who work on GoT are some of the most acclaimed working in television today (and participate in some of the shows that are mentioned here that can do no wrong) so you aren't going to get any better in terms of craftsmen.

http://media.giphy.com/media/12sR4ZRknSLq8w/giphy.gif

[iknownothingjonsnow]

In reading this thread in it's entirety, I can safely say that not one person making complaints here has any idea what cinematography actually means. Like, at all. Wikipedia/Google is your friend if it's not your area of expertise either.

I think the word you want is "direction" and as an aside, the directors who work on GoT are some of the most acclaimed working in television today (and participate in some of the shows that are mentioned here that can do no wrong) so you aren't going to get any better in terms of craftsmen.

Funny, since you clearly have no idea what a slash means...

[Night King]

I honestly do not understand the complaints on this thread. In my opinion, it’s just people trying to appear intelligent by saying the direction and style of the show should be more subtle and nuanced, as if implementing dramatic close ups and background music is somehow a cheap tactic that forces emotion. It’s not. It’s a vital component of creating dramatic and memorable moments- imagine Tyrion’s trial without the background score building up to a crescendo, signifying the beginning of the end of the Lannisters. Imagine it without the powerful, close up shots at the end of Tyrion and Tywin staring each other down. I get goose bumps during those shots. Just look at the critics and forum reaction towards the trial scene- it’s gone down as one of the best scenes in the series, and that’s mostly down to the direction, score etc (along with Peter Dinklage’s acting). Imagine it with no music and static direction…wouldn’t it be completely dull in comparison? But hey, look at how subtle it’d be! I can work out the emotion of the scene for myself now- not like the dumb masses that are manipulated by background music! (That’s a completely condensing view by the way, whoever said the show is “brilliant at exploiting the petty emotions of stupid people” and similar statements. In my experience, anyone who refers to the majority as stupid is usually the idiot).

Nearly all big dramatic moments in film and television have big dramatic techniques to match, whether it’s the camera angles; music etc. I’m fine with people criticizing aspects of the direction and cinematography- for instance, if they feel it’s unoriginal, lacking creativity or too forceful with its point (that’s very debatable by the way). But my point is that the argument that using dramatic music, camera angles and direction in a dramatic, episode-ending scene that has massive repercussions is somehow a cheap, cop-out tactic to “artificially infuse” drama and that somehow direction being more subtle is always better, is completely wrong. I’d love to see Tyrion’s trial with just dialogue and see how exciting, thrilling and hype-inducing that would be to lead us into the infamous trial by combat and the final confrontation between Tyrion, Shae and Tywin.

I don’t think the majority of people held this view in the thread to that extent, but some did. I just feel like some posters on here are just trying to come across as intelligent by dismissing basic cinematic techniques as unsubtle tools to manipulate stupid people, and that they would prefer a more subtle and nuanced show because they’re apparently too intelligent to be manipulated. I also hate the idea that anything that isn’t subtle is cheap or lazy. Other posters in this thread are fine with the use of these cinematic techniques but just feel they’re too forceful with the point. That’s fine I guess, but it was a massively dramatic scene- beginning of Tyrion’s dark side; the trial by combat revelation. I thought the techniques suited the scene fine, but that’s just my opinion. I’d also like to point out how different people I know experienced different emotions watching the scene- some were excited at the prospect of the trial by combat; some were concerned at Tyrion’s dark side emerging; some of my friends felt sadness at Shae’s betrayal; others felt anger; others believed she was forced to do it by Cersei. If the cinematic techniques used in this scene were so extremely manipulative and forceful, surely the viewers would all feel the same thing? Or maybe, people can think and feel emotion for themselves. The fact some people on this thread were indifferent to the scene highlights this also...