Jump to content

Can a Jon Snow + Daenerys romance work in the final book? Part 2


MoIaF

Recommended Posts

Sure I think that's a possibility. The title asks about romance specifically and it's hard for my mind not to go to the Twilight* place when they are both so special. Like I said though with a seconds more reflection I have faith in GRRM when it comes to the broad strokes.

*I have never read or watched Twilight. So perhaps it is a well written romance.

The first book was well written, and not that cheesy. Can't say about the others, because I haven't read them. But at least after the first movie it became overexposure of cheesy.

With regards to the time factor - sure, Dany/Drogo and Jon/Ygritte developed quickly. First of all GRRM was able to do that because of the significant time jumps between those POV and chapters. Did that tactic convince me? Not really. It always felt as if I was given the result of a development that had occurred off-stage and had to accept as fact. Because it was written that way and actually did not convince me, I knew it wouldn't last. In contrast with a few other characters we have so far only witnessed development without there even being a romantic hook-up, and it has many more people convinced (irregardless whether GRRM ever ends up getting them together or not): such as Sansa/Hound and Arya/Gendry. When people put forward their doubts whether there will be time enough, imo they are saying they doubt there is time to write a Jon/Dany romance which allows us to witness the development and thus is a convincing romance. There is time I admit to write it like the Dany/Drogo and Jon/Ygritte relationship, but that would probably the worst way to write it imo. To be honest, I'm not yet convinced whether GRRM can actually write a convincing romance that way (per GRRM Arya/Gendry is out of the question as they would never meet again).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first book was well written, and not that cheesy. Can't say about the others, because I haven't read them. But at least after the first movie it became overexposure of cheesy.

With regards to the time factor - sure, Dany/Drogo and Jon/Ygritte developed quickly. First of all GRRM was able to do that because of the significant time jumps between those POV and chapters. Did that tactic convince me? Not really. It always felt as if I was given the result of a development that had occurred off-stage and had to accept as fact. Because it was written that way and actually did not convince me, I knew it wouldn't last. In contrast with a few other characters we have so far only witnessed development without there even being a romantic hook-up, and it has many more people convinced (irregardless whether GRRM ever ends up getting them together or not): such as Sansa/Hound and Arya/Gendry. When people put forward their doubts whether there will be time enough, imo they are saying they doubt there is time to write a Jon/Dany romance which allows us to witness the development and thus is a convincing romance. There is time I admit to write it like the Dany/Drogo and Jon/Ygritte relationship, but that would probably the worst way to write it imo. To be honest, I'm not yet convinced whether GRRM can actually write a convincing romance that way (per GRRM Arya/Gendry is out of the question as they would never meet again).

I'm a big fan of the Ygritte/Jon romance, not in a 'shippy' way I just think it was nicely written and a bit quirky. Calling Drogo and Dany a romance makes want to throw up a little.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We know Dany won't make it to Westeros until at least the end of Winds.

Why do we know this?

I willing to guess that she land closer to the middle of the book, as she needs to deal with fAegon. My bet is she is engaged to Afegon by the end of the book is either finds out real story or out right kills him at the end of Winds/ beginning of Dream

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why do we know this?

I willing to guess that she land closer to the middle of the book, as she needs to deal with fAegon. My bet is she is engaged to Afegon by the end of the book is either finds out real story or out right kills him at the end of Winds/ beginning of Dream

I think the author said that Dany and Tyrion won't meet until towards the end of Winds and it's reasonable to assume that they'd meet in Essos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh and from the time Dany met Drogon to the time she made him "fall in love with her" it took 3 chapters.

They are two POV characters they'll be sharing a lot of "screen time". It can be done and quite easily.

We don't need any reptiliphile pyromaniac bestiality in the series thank you very much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That just read as 'How I learned to chill out and love my rapist' to be honest.

Again, yes. The novel read as that. Which is why the story held people's interest, due to the shock value of seeing a main character going through that, having to grapple with the reality of being abandoned to the savages after starting with such lofty expectations, then reaching acceptance of her lot in life as a castaway queenling and deciding to persist as a queen despite it all, to thrive instead of fail under that brutal test of the soul, to claim her title as the queen of these castaways. From the Khal's POV lesser beings are to be used as chattle, and he at first saw no signs that she was any different from her mewling brother Viscerys who certainly deserved no respect, and thus Drogo had no reason to treat Danny as a peer when she was not. He rode down mewlers as a career and wasn't going to stoop to the level of civilized people just because this one happened to be his wife. So it was up to her to elevate her Game and not remain a bauble, and when she demonstrated the will and ability to rule the horselords as a functional and worthy khaleesi that's when she and the khal started to bond from common experience and she saw anew that the treatment she'd thought terrible wasn't so terrible anymore now that she herself brooked no half-measures. Not on the field of battle and not in the bedroom.

(That's what's so disappointing about the recent turn of events in Meereen: she started accepting half-measures again in the attempts to "rule" that place, and lost touch with the fiery dragon spirit that had not only gotten her through the Drogo guantlet but had aligned her with him as the same species: conquerers. Consequently her momentum stalled and her outlook has withered.... then we maybe saw a dragon reboot at the end when she remembered who her best role model was when she was riding high.)

Deserved by birth? What does that even mean?
his station. highborn. allowed to marry a queen under normal circumstances. Like the Disney "love's true kiss" just often happens to be delivered by some guy who's already a prince, as if that's what really qualifies one to be capable of true love. So if Jon is carried on the people's shoulders and made king solely owing to how he just saved humanity's ass, and that's what Daenerys finds attractive, then Jojen's dad can just smile and keep silent about how Jon was already supposed to be king according to the normal rules of succession anyway. You could further reduce the fairy tale similarity by having Jojen's dad get slain horribly by Roose and there goes the last guy who could have proven who Jon really was! (But then Jon beats the darkening of his fate by "earning" his way onto the throne using the method mentioned above.) That'd be dark enough for most folks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Time constraints aside, I am pretty sure that Jon is going to be an important, positive figure in Dany's life, per the blue flower in HotU. It doesn't have to be a love story, necessarily, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was. We've been given two stories where a blue rose is the symbol of romance (Bael/the Stark girl, Rhaegar/Lyanna) and while it could also only mean that there's the product of Rhaegar/Lyanna on the Wall, I think that GRRM may be going for double meaning, history repeating itself in inverse and all, it's a very romantic vision Dany's been repicient of. As for whether a "love at first sight" would be corny, well, it depends on many variables, on the context in which they meet, how their experience in TWoW influence them etc., perhaps they will adore each other, but still have their differences, a love-hate relationship, we can't really know.


(Also, there's been new semi-canon info (material left out from TWoIaF) that there had been rumors at the time about Prince Jacaerys falling in love and secretly marrying Cregan Stark's bastard half-sister while he had been at Winterfell at the start of the Dance of the Dragons. So perhaps GRRM likes Targs and (bastard) Starks mixing.)



I don't think time is a problem, really. I expect they will interact plenty during the War for Dawn, and I don't believe they will change into robots without any feelings because they need to fight right now. So, if GRRM can fit in the Others' invasion, I think he can manage their relatioship, too, if he means to write it to begin with, of course.



Perhaps I will eat crow once Season 7 finishes on HBO. You never know.



I'll take anything, just not Jon/Arya, Jon/Sansa, or Dany/Tyrion. Please, George, please.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Time constraints aside, I am pretty sure that Jon is going to be an important, positive figure in Dany's life, per the blue flower in HotU. It doesn't have to be a love story, necessarily, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was. We've been given two stories where a blue rose is the symbol of romance (Bael/the Stark girl, Rhaegar/Lyanna) and while it could also only mean that there's the product of Rhaegar/Lyanna on the Wall, I think that GRRM may be going for double meaning, history repeating itself in inverse and all, it's a very romantic vision Dany's been repicient of. As for whether a "love at first sight" would be corny, well, it depends on many variables, on the context in which they meet, how their experience in TWoW influence them etc., perhaps they will adore each other, but still have their differences, a love-hate relationship, we can't really know.

(Also, there's been new semi-canon info (material left out from TWoIaF) that there had been rumors at the time about Prince Jacaerys falling in love and secretly marrying Cregan Stark's bastard half-sister while he had been at Winterfell at the start of the Dance of the Dragons. So perhaps GRRM likes Targs and (bastard) Starks mixing.)

I don't think time is a problem, really. I expect they will interact plenty during the War for Dawn, and I don't believe they will change into robots without any feelings because they need to fight right now. So, if GRRM can fit in the Others' invasion, I think he can manage their relatioship, too, if he means to write it to begin with, of course.

Perhaps I will eat crow once Season 7 finishes on HBO. You never know.

I'll take anything, just not Jon/Arya, Jon/Sansa, or Dany/Tyrion. Please, George, please.

Where did you get the "new" info/rumour that was left out from tWoIaF? This one in particular, I mean
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where did you get the "new" info/rumour that was left out from tWoIaF? This one in particular, I mean

Here. Answer #7. The author's Mushroom, I know he's a dubious source, but there are things I'm sure he was right about (like that Corlys was Addam and Alyn's father), so I wouldn't discount it right away. It would also explain who was the Targaryen bride Jace promised to Cregan... Baela. Of course, since it wasn't officially published, it's semi-canon, not full canon, and can be subject to change.

Edit: ninja'd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...