TerraPrime Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Please continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 protar Posted Today, 06:55 AM Having just seen an LGBT based thread in another forum devolve into flaming and bigotry within three posts, I was just reminded of what a great thread this is and what a great community this forum is in general that it can have a continually running LGBT thread that remains completely cordial at all times. So thanks everyone, I do wish I could contribute more. :) Your contributions are great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I just discovered someone following me on Twitter The description on their account. Do any words (or hashtags) have any meaning, anymore? I will have to discern from this person's tweets what is going on, before deciding if I will block them. A transvestite since 1957. My new book, HAPPILY TRANSVESTITE, is what I've learned living as a woman (no-op) for the last 16 years. (Due Oct 2014.) #GirlsLikeUs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 *waves to everyone* I hope you don't mind me posting in here! Regarding Conchita Wurst specifically, one reason there is such confusion about her identity seems to be the press itself. Sometimes they refer to Conchita as a she, sometimes as the alter ego of Tom Neuwirth, sometimes as gay, sometimes as straight, sometimes as a drag queen (or drag persona) and once I even saw her referred to as trans*. This probably doesn't help much at all. My interpretation at the time was that she was probably gender queer or somewhere there on the scale, although the press coverage being so terrible really didn't help. I checked news in three different languages but it only made things more confusing. :( The main thing, I think, was that unlike previous drag acts in Eurovision this wasn't just a joke, unlike say Verka Serduchka, and it also wasn't a transwoman that could "pass" (to use Serano's terminology) like Dana International (a brilliant transwoman who won with "Viva la Diva" in -98, one of my fave Eurovision winners of all time). This was something that didn't fall obviously within gender binaries. DatePalm and I discussed it during the competition and agreed that this was different and more...positively transgressive? to try and describe it. It made me think of Serano's discussion on femininity being so devalued in society. Regardless of which category Conchita falls under, the message to the haters was clear, I think. People should be able to have whatever gender identity they want, and be who they want and this is perfectly fine. I might add that Conchita has sailed to the top of the Russian iTunes list (plus Finland, Greece, the Ukraine etc) despite various leaders wanting to ban her from appearing. Guess not everyone in Russia is as afraid of teh unnatural GAY!! & stuff as Putin wants them to be. For us here this may mean very little, but a lot of people rarely, if ever, even encounter anyone who fall outside of gender binaries. If they can see and hear Conchita and think "Yeah this is ok, I could get used to this" then it's a small step on the way in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I'd say the rather strict banning policy around here has something to do with the cordial nature of these kind of threads. Many people probably just stay away from the topic, rather than risk sharing casually held, yet unpopular, opinions on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brook Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Those people are welcome to stay away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Regardless of which category Conchita falls under, the message to the haters was clear, I think. People should be able to have whatever gender identity they want, and be who they want and this is perfectly fine. I might add that Conchita has sailed to the top of the Russian iTunes list (plus Finland, Greece, the Ukraine etc) despite various leaders wanting to ban her from appearing. Guess not everyone in Russia is as afraid of teh unnatural GAY!! & stuff as Putin wants them to be. I don't think Putin personally cares one way or another. It's more that he's playing on perceived popular opinion and giving people something to agree on. There's probably a decent number of Russians who are tolerant of homosexuals, but I bet that a large number of those also happens to be fluent in English, and able to afford living abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 I saw her song and I am not particular moved by it. But ok. If the worst criticism here is that she defies conventional labels and doesn't fit neatly into one box or another, then I think we can say that it's a good problem to have. Conchita reminds me of the fabulous dancer in the videos of The Young Professionals: D.I.S.C.O. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcZnRz7WujA 20 Seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7TvtWLnHUc (cultural appropriation alert) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Is it okay to use eye bleach before the cranial glue I had to use after my head exploded, has set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 lol Robin, it's good to stretch your limits from time to time. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 There's already been a guy performing with a feminine persona in the music industry in Europe. Not sure if he actually identifies as a woman. Definitely more entertaining than Conchita though Azis i Ustata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Your contributions are great. Are they? :p All you guys you've got your articles and your philosophical debates and sometimes I feel a bit behind the curve. But thanks anyway. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emberling Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Do any words (or hashtags) have any meaning, anymore?Not really, no. :devil: Are they? :P All you guys you've got your articles and your philosophical debates and sometimes I feel a bit behind the curve. But thanks anyway. :)That's okay, as long as you're here to make me feel like I'm blazing a trail for someone behind me instead of just stumbling around like a n00b in other peoples' footsteps. That's what you're here for, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 lolRobin, it's good to stretch your limits from time to time. ;)I did, once. It took me years to lose all that weight. :P Are they? :P All you guys you've got your articles and your philosophical debates and sometimes I feel a bit behind the curve. But thanks anyway. :)Articles and philosophical debates are mostly of the mind. If you speak what you feel, that's good! Not really, no. :devil:That's okay, as long as you're here to make me feel like I'm blazing a trail for someone behind me instead of just stumbling around like a n00b in other peoples' footsteps. That's what you're here for, right?For me, that's a shame. boxes, labels and boundaries allow be to feel secure. The box I created fro myself is comfortable, inside and camouflaged and armored, outside. I set my boundaries to stay safe. But, when it comes to labels, the deconstruction of language and co-opting of words, has left me at a disadvantage. When it came to matters of sex and gender, I used to be able, if I chose to define myself to someone, be able to use a single word (two, if I wanted to be really precise). Now, to convey the same meaning, I need at least seven. Because, now, in addition to describing what I am, I need to also describe what I am not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Trans people have been thrown under the bus,so many times, that we are covered in tire tracks. http://www.chron.com/news/politics/houston/article/Mayor-drops-bathroom-provision-from-5474575.php That is tantamount to saying, "but we have to salvage this for the LGB". Was "T" ever really part of "LGBT"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Not to dispute, at all, that trans* issues have often been sidelined in the politics of the larger LBGT movement, but is this case really an example of this? According to the article: Members of the gay, lesbian and transgender community were equally outraged, however, by a clause that would give businesses an out if the defendant had a "good faith belief" that the person's claim of being transgender was disingenuous. Without looking further, it seems that the LBG in the LBGT community were backing the trans* folks on this issue. The decision also seems to be more from the mayor's office in reaction to the religious conservative protestors, and not pressure from the LBGT community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The problem with the internet is that site publish opinions, not fact.I have the actual text that was removed. The issue involves gender presentation and if it conforms to the gender the restroom is intended.The view was that the wording enforced societal norms for gender, leaving it possible to refuse those whose presentation did not meet those standards.My thought is that the baby got thrown out with the bath water.I'll post the actual text that was dropped, when I get back to my computer. ETA: the text that was removed. ARTICLE IV. PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONSSec. 17-51. Prohibition against discrimination in public accommodations.[...]b. It shall be unlawful for any place of public accommodation or any employeeor agent thereof to intentionally deny any person entry to any restroom, shower room, orsimilar facility if that facility is consistent with and appropriate to that person’sexpression of gender identity. It shall be a defense to prosecution for discrimination onthe basis of gender identity under this article, however, if the defendant had a good faithbelief that the gender or gender identity of the person discriminated against was notconsistent with the gender designation of the facility. For purposes of this section, adefendant has a good faith belief if the manner in which the person represented orexpressed gender to others (e.g. behavior, clothing, hairstyles, activities, voice ormannerisms) is not consistent with the gender designation of the facility the personattempted to access. Nothing in this section shall require construction of a newbathroom, shower room, or similar facility. ETA2: I found the following conversation regarding the Houston Mayor's twitter post. https://twitter.com/AnniseParker/status/466431834440884224 You can see how the battle is shaping up. The binary trans people are pissed that affirmative language specifically helping them has been scrapped, while the non-binary people are pissed, even at her use of the phrase, "brothers and sisters". My take is that scrapping language that would have protected binary identified people who presented reasonably within societal norms, is wrong. What should have been done is for people who craft such laws, was to learn how to use the English language, effectively and reword the section to make discrimination against non-binary people more difficult. ETA3: Not that I expect the mayor to listen... https://twitter.com/RobinLFrank/status/466927889175162881 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuitableTrain8 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 LGBT I get but what do the Q and I stand for.... at work and don't want to google it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 LGBT I get but what do the Q and I stand for.... at work and don't want to google itQueer and intersex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuitableTrain8 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Queer and intersex. isn't queer a derogatory term? Also what is intersex ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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