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NBA Continued - Conference, Finals, and Beyond


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This may be old news, but Cowherd or someone on his show this morning suggested that Pat Riley had suggested that Allen's 3 last year had the effect of delaying or putting off serious structural changes.

It looked to me like the plan for the Heat this year was just to have James be so good that they could coast through the regular season with modest contributions from the rest of the team. Regular season wins weren't really that important, what was important was that Wade was healthy in the playoffs, on the assumption that their 4 Hall of Famers, if they were all healthy, would be enough to do it again. In the Eastern playoffs, it looked like it might work - Wade looked like his old self for much of the time.

But in the Finals? Wade is one of the worst players out there, and Chalmers/Cole are no better. Lebron is Lebron, Allen is still doing his thing, but the rest of the team is really poor.

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Just want to say that I don't think any team could beat the Spurs right now. Their ball movement, defense and shot making has been exceptional and there isn't a team in the NBA that would make those games competitive. Hyperbole like the Heat are terrible, bad, ect is a bit ridiculous. They're getting beat by a better team playing at the top of their game but the Heat would still beat every other team in the NBA. Can't win them all.

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the Heat would still beat every other team in the NBA. Can't win them all.

I don't think you're right about that. I'm not sure the Heat as currently put together would be able to beat the Thunder or the Clippers. Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka is better than James/Bosh/Wade (James/Bosh/Allen?), probably Paul/Griffin/Jordan as well. And the guys behind those big 3 haven't looked any better than what they had in OKC or LA.

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Just want to say that I don't think any team could beat the Spurs right now. Their ball movement, defense and shot making has been exceptional and there isn't a team in the NBA that would make those games competitive. Hyperbole like the Heat are terrible, bad, ect is a bit ridiculous. They're getting beat by a better team playing at the top of their game but the Heat would still beat every other team in the NBA. Can't win them all.

I agree with this. The Spurs have been dominant all year long. This should come as a suprise to no one.

A couple things make this year's Spurs team superior to their other squads over the last 5-6 years. Obviously one is the emergence of Kawhi Leonard as a legitimate difference maker. Also, their roster construction down to the last man is phenomenal. They get so many positive contributions from the bench, and everyone buys into the system completely. They are unique in the NBA right now in that regard.

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I don't think you're right about that. I'm not sure the Heat as currently put together would be able to beat the Thunder or the Clippers. Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka is better than James/Bosh/Wade (James/Bosh/Allen?), probably Paul/Griffin/Jordan as well. And the guys behind those big 3 haven't looked any better than what they had in OKC or LA.

Neither of those teams play as good defense as the Spurs nor do they play team ball. The Heat are being beaten to a pulp because the Spurs move the ball so damn well that they're constantly getting open shots and hitting them. Neither the Thunder nor the Clippers are anywhere near as good at that and would likely play Miami's game instead of how Miami is currently playing SA's game. Additionally, the Spurs are really deep with contributors everywhere whereas the Thunder and Clippers are relatively shallow. The games would be closer but I'd take the Heat in both of those match ups without question.

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I don't think you're right about that. I'm not sure the Heat as currently put together would be able to beat the Thunder or the Clippers. Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka is better than James/Bosh/Wade (James/Bosh/Allen?), probably Paul/Griffin/Jordan as well. And the guys behind those big 3 haven't looked any better than what they had in OKC or LA.

I was rooting for OKC precisely because Miami can beat them without much issue at all. Spurs can contain Wade, OKC can't. Spurs can go deep into their bench, OKC can't. Spurs can move the ball, OKC has some of the worst half court offense in the league. Spurs have a great coach, OKC has one that can't call a decent play with a full timeout

We're forgetting that Cole looked great last series. Miami looks bad now because it's the Spurs and they're shutting down people not named LeBron, but they'd still beat anyone not named the Spurs. OKC is Miami-lite, small ball with less passing and more inefficient jump shots, Clippers size presents a problem, but they don't have the Spurs passing, depth, or shooting which is Miami's main issues. Clippers still present more of a challenge than OKC, OKC just doesn't have the tools to beat Miami.

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We already had this argument when we were discussing a potential Thunder-Heat finals. But OKC was a LOT more competitive against the Spurs than the Heat have been, and I feel like all this discussion is assuming that Wade is just terrible against the Spurs, as opposed to just over-the-hill. If anything, I think the Heat are OKC-lite at this point.


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Bosh is the head scratcher. What happened to that guy? He doesn't look physically done like Wade, but he's been terrible. This a guy that was a 20 and 10 on a team with no supporting cast, and got that team to the playoffs a few times. Now he's a glorified Matt Bonner.


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Bosh is the head scratcher. What happened to that guy? He doesn't look physically done like Wade, but he's been terrible. This a guy that was a 20 and 10 on a team with no supporting cast, and got that team to the playoffs a few times. Now he's a glorified Matt Bonner.

He was actually 24-11 in his last season in Toronto, so his decline in production is huge. At this point as you say he's an over qualified spot up shooter. A few years of playing that role has likely caused other parts of his game to regress (well he was never a good defender, so that didn't change).

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Neither of those teams play as good defense as the Spurs nor do they play team ball. The Heat are being beaten to a pulp because the Spurs move the ball so damn well that they're constantly getting open shots and hitting them. Neither the Thunder nor the Clippers are anywhere near as good at that and would likely play Miami's game instead of how Miami is currently playing SA's game. Additionally, the Spurs are really deep with contributors everywhere whereas the Thunder and Clippers are relatively shallow. The games would be closer but I'd take the Heat in both of those match ups without question.

I think Maith has the right of it here. I think that both the Thunder and the Clippers would give this Heat team a serious run for its money. Now I would have said that before this series as well, because I don't think the Clippers or Thunder would be walkover teams for the current Heat squad. But this series does make it much more obvious that the gap between Heat and those two team is not huge.

Look, Miami can upgrade this summer, they're not damned. It's not just OKC that really needs to upgrade its roster. But when you look at their regular season performance and their playoffs performance, I cannot honestly say that this season's Heat team is that great and that OKC and Clippers wouldn't have been more serious opponents for them than the Pacers.

As for this series, it's two sided. Yes the Spurs are great and have been all year. But the Heat players are not exactly rising to the occasion either. It's incredible how in both home games they let the Spurs run away to a huge divide, right from the start.

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Bosh is the head scratcher. What happened to that guy? He doesn't look physically done like Wade, but he's been terrible. This a guy that was a 20 and 10 on a team with no supporting cast, and got that team to the playoffs a few times. Now he's a glorified Matt Bonner.

Whoever's been in charge of Bosh's training is to blame. Why take a power forward and send him off to the perimeter to chuck up 3s? His job is to finish at the rim, have a reliable midrange, grab rebounds. That's where he can make a difference. Bosh roams out to the 3pt line and half the time no one covers him because they don't care. His offensive job is too spread out.

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We already had this argument when we were discussing a potential Thunder-Heat finals. But OKC was a LOT more competitive against the Spurs than the Heat have been, and I feel like all this discussion is assuming that Wade is just terrible against the Spurs, as opposed to just over-the-hill. If anything, I think the Heat are OKC-lite at this point.

It's all about matchups, that's like saying Mavericks are better than OKC because they were more competitive, or Grizzlies better than the Clippers for being more competitive. Or that two years ago OKC would beat Miami easy because an old Boston team took Miami to 7.

Wade over the hill commentary is just ridiculous. Against teams that he matches up well against, he's been playing great all season and all postseason up until this series. What this series shows is that he's probably no longer fit to be a reliable consistent second option on a championship team, especially against a team as deep and smart as the Spurs.

OKC will be Miami lite because Perkins can't space the floor, they live and die by the jump shoot, and their half court sets are horrendous. Also they don't have a single contributor off the bench and a bad coach. They can't do the things that make Miami uncomfortable. they don't share the ball, they play two man hero ball.

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