The sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler (Aemon Having Prophetic Dreams?)

[Lady Blizzardborn]

allaris is a bit obvious, here name is reverse en se is described as " looking a f'lott like here daddy doran" so she is interesting in here own so perfect for a red herring.

<snip

You mean Oberyn. He's Sarella/Alleras' father.

<snip

The sphinx: in Essos, Tyrion passes a sphinx: a dragon's body, and a woman's head. The sphinx is the riddle.. perhaps the riddle of who the head(s) will be? It is kind of curious that this specific sphinx that we come across has a dragon's body after all.

In that case though there is no riddle. It's an obvious reference to Daenerys the Dragon queen. She is a Targaryen and thus a dragon, and she clearly has a woman's head.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

In that case though there is no riddle. It's an obvious reference to Daenerys the Dragon queen. She is a Targaryen and thus a dragon, and she clearly has a woman's head.

Tyrion also remarks that the male sphinx is missing.. perhaps that's the riddle?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Tyrion also remarks that the male sphinx is missing.. perhaps that's the riddle?

That would work. Perhaps a commentary on how everyone is expecting a man to save the world but it's actually going to be a woman. Turn those gender stereotypes on their heads!

[James Arryn]

I think it's v. unlikely to be about Alleras. He/she was given that nickname because of the understood significance of the creature, not the other way around.

As for the rest, I think it's mainly what Aemon is thinking about in his waking state, and trying to puzzle out. I think we're supposed to be seeing that the cost of his noble choices extend beyond a sentence or 2 to Jon; that he in fact battles with regret and recrimination every day.

[The Kinkslayer]

From AFFC's prologue (paraphrasing): An Sphinx is a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

Dany likely has a mostly Valyrian slightly Dornish heritage, Stannis has an unknown heritage although most likely Southron-Valyrian, Jon has a Northron and Dornish(Wylla/Ashara) or Valyrian(Rhaegar) heritage.

The character with the most diverse heritage is Brown Ben Plumm.

[get your tinfoil]

So there you have it, the real Azor Ahai or prince who was promised is the current leader of the second sons.

[TheReal_Rebel]

He spoke of dreams and never named the dreamer

Bloodraven the greenseer who dreams a lot, and wore many names.

a glass candle that could not be lit and eggs that would not hatch

Daemon II dreamed of a dragon hatching from an Egg at Summerhall only for it to refer to Egg. "Egg" was the name used to hide the identity of a Targaryen. There are three black glass candles and one green candle. I think the green candle refers to Aegon while the three black candles refer to three living Targaryens: Dany, Aemon and Jon. One of the black candles is lit, and it burns but is not consumed, burning and preservation, ice and fire. I think the candle being lit signifies that the "egg" will hatch, and Jon will learn his Targaryen identity.

No, I think it could refer to Alleras the Sphinx, who is actually Sarella Sand. Also, Jon is the PtwP, Dany is the StMtW not the PtwP

As for other possible interpretations, there are sphinxes at the RK in KL (which I think refers to Cersei), at the Citadel (which I think refers to Connington) and one Tyrion comes across with the other in VD (the female sphinx representing Dany and the male representing Tyrion). Tyrion did kill his father and come upon a sphinx like Oedipus.

If we follow the story of the sphinx, it was come across by a man of royal blood who didn't even know who his parents were.

Dany is the what?

And why wouldn't a child of Dany and Jon be the Prince Who was Promised?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Dany is the what?

And why wouldn't a child of Dany and Jon be the Prince Who was Promised?

I believe StMtW stands for "Stallion that Mounts the World".

[Parizad]

I think you mean "heard" not "haired" to start with for future reference. Aemon believed Dany was the PtwP, but he also believed the same of Rhaegar and Aegon at some point. GRRM doesn't reveal who the prophecy pertains to explicitly in the text until after said event occurs as is the case in Dunk and Egg in both THK and TMK. Aemon doesn't (just so you know that is how we spell it) know Alleras, but he doesn't know Dany either to be fair, they also never met.

It doesn't have to all do with Dany. It is never mentioned that the riddle of the sphinx is male or female, so I see little connecting it to Dany.

Also, are you saying not to say Jon is the the PtwP since we don't know who the PTwP is, and then saying you know Dany is the PtwP? If you are that is being hypocritical.

Thanks for the English course! I am not saying Dany is tPtwP, I'm saying when when Aemon was talking about the sphinx he was talking as a person who believed that Dany is tPtwP. He thought the translation misled him and many others for 1000 years, that's why he uses the metaphor of the sphinx which conveniently has a dragon body. I personally have no idea who tptwP might be and will stay like that until GRRM includes that information in the books.

[Voice]

In regards to the quotes below, I think the symbolism is quite clear. The Dothraki take down and steal the dragon-sphinx with a man's head, leaving only the female dragon-sphinx standing for Tyrion to notice on his journey east.

We saw the downfall of Viserys as he stayed with the Khalasar on their way to Vaes Dothrak (where the male-headed sphinx was taken and laid near the Horse Gate). There, after his appalling Frey-like dinner manners, he is 'crowned' by Khal Drogo. This leaves only Dany standing, a single dragon, with the head of a woman.

Tyrion also remarks that the male sphinx is missing.. perhaps that's the riddle?

<snip

The sphinx: in Essos, Tyrion passes a sphinx: a dragon's body, and a woman's head. The sphinx is the riddle.. perhaps the riddle of who the head(s) will be? It is kind of curious that this specific sphinx that we come across has a dragon's body after all.

Rhaenys_Targaryen, on 18 May 2014 - 11:07 AM, said: In that case though there is no riddle. It's an obvious reference to Daenerys the Dragon queen. She is a Targaryen and thus a dragon, and she clearly has a woman's head.

[Fire Eater]

Thanks for the English course! I am not saying Dany is tPtwP, I'm saying when when Aemon was talking about the sphinx he was talking as a person who believed that Dany is tPtwP. He thought the translation misled him and many others for 1000 years, that's why he uses the metaphor of the sphinx which conveniently has a dragon body. I personally have no idea who tptwP might be and will stay like that until GRRM includes that information in the books.

There are also sphinxes with lions' bodies mentioned in AGoT and AFfC.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

From AFFC's prologue (paraphrasing): An Sphinx is a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

Dany likely has a mostly Valyrian slightly Dornish heritage, Stannis has an unknown heritage although most likely Southron-Valyrian, Jon has a Northron and Dornish(Wylla/Ashara) or Valyrian(Rhaegar) heritage.

The character with the most diverse heritage is Brown Ben Plumm.

[get your tinfoil]

So there you have it, the real Azor Ahai or prince who was promised is the current leader of the second sons.

Stannis' heritage is rather well-known actually. He has Baratheon, Durrendon, Tarygaryen and Estermont blood to begin with. Southron (particularly Stormlands) with a splash of Valyrian.

Dany also has some Arryn way back, so she has a bit of the Vale.

Jon has the North, the Riverlands, and the Vale through the Stark side (per the WOIAF preview pages with the Stark family tree). If his mother was Wylla, who knows where she was from. If Rhagar was his father he has Valyrian, Dornish, and a tiny bit more Vale through the unknown Arryn woman who was married to one of the Targ kings (I'm thinking Aenys I but I could be wrong on that). Plus anybody else in there. Egg's wife, we don't know, so there is that to consider. And IIRC there's some Baratheon, and thus diluted Durrendon, through the Targ line.

[joluoto2]

It's probably a reference to the Citadel, and the fact that there are more to it than it seems.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Stannis' heritage is rather well-known actually. He has Baratheon, Durrendon, Tarygaryen and Estermont blood to begin with. Southron (particularly Stormlands) with a splash of Valyrian.

Dany also has some Arryn way back, so she has a bit of the Vale.

Jon has the North, the Riverlands, and the Vale through the Stark side (per the WOIAF preview pages with the Stark family tree). If his mother was Wylla, who knows where she was from. If Rhagar was his father he has Valyrian, Dornish, and a tiny bit more Vale through the unknown Arryn woman who was married to one of the Targ kings (I'm thinking Aenys I but I could be wrong on that). Plus anybody else in there. Egg's wife, we don't know, so there is that to consider. And IIRC there's some Baratheon, and thus diluted Durrendon, through the Targ line.

Aenys was married to Alyssa Velaryon.

It was the Arryn wife of Viserys I who had some Targaryen blood. Seeing as how Jaehaerys and Alysanne had 9 kids, I'm guessing that one of those daughters married an Arryn Lord, making their daughter of the same generation as Viserys and of the right age to marry him.

[Bloodrobin]

There are also sphinxes with lions' bodies mentioned in AGoT and AFfC.

Just to muddy the waters a bit, this talk of sphinxes causes me to recall the Persian ones I saw at Persepolis which had the body of a lion, wings of an eagle, and the head of a king. One also can't help but see similarities between Melisandre's fire religion and Zoroastrianism. Lannister lion? Dany's head? Any wings references that might be relevant? Bloodraven's "you will fly" comments to Bran?

I'm sure this is all irrelevant, just late night insomniac thinking out loud...

[Skoboe]

Well IF I'm right about LF and he's a Reyne in hiding, then his real coat of arms is a lion. He currently uses a titan...big giant man-like thing. He also personally uses the mockingbird...which can mimic almost anything.

Merge the lion with the titan and what do you get, beside a mockingbird laughing at how he's fooled everyone :D

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Well IF I'm right about LF and he's a Reyne in hiding, then his real coat of arms is a lion. He currently uses a titan...big giant man-like thing. He also personally uses the mockingbird...which can mimic almost anything.

Merge the lion with the titan and what do you get, beside a mockingbird laughing at how he's fooled everyone :D

And how would that work? LF being a secret Reyne? His family arrived in Westeros before the Reyne's were terminated.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Aenys was married to Alyssa Velaryon.

It was the Arryn wife of Viserys I who had some Targaryen blood. Seeing as how Jaehaerys and Alysanne had 9 kids, I'm guessing that one of those daughters married an Arryn Lord, making their daughter of the same generation as Viserys and of the right age to marry him.

Thanks for the info about Aenys' wife but there was also a Targaryen king who married an Arryn lady. I can't remember which one but it's in a graphic on the wiki somewhere and all current Targs are descended through their line.

ETA: I looked it up. Viserys I's first wife was Unknown of House Arryn--Rhaenyra's mother, and thus Aegon III and Viserys II's grandmother was of an Arryn.

[Parizad]

There are also sphinxes with lions' bodies mentioned in AGoT and AFfC.

I'm talking about Valyrian sphinxes here

[Twatbeards conspiracy]

That had been one of his last good days. After that the old man spent more time sleeping than awake, curled up beneath a pile of furs in the captains cabin. Sometimes he would mutter in his sleep. When he woke hed call for Sam, insisting that he had to tell him something, but oft as not he would have forgotten what he meant to say by the time that Sam arrived. Even when he did recall, his talk was all a jumble. He spoke of dreams and never named the dreamer, of a glass candle that could not be lit and eggs that would not hatch. He said the sphinx was the riddle, not the riddler, whatever that meant. He asked Sam to read for him from a book by Septon Barth, whose writings had been burned during the reign of Baelor the Blessed . Once he woke up weeping. The dragon must have three heads, he wailed, but I am too old and frail to be one of them. I should be with her, showing her the way, but my body has betrayed me.

Was Aemon having that Targ Dreams? Did he foresee Sam's encounter with the Sand Snake in Old Town? Or is this a much older prophecy dreamt by another member of his family or something taken from the book. I kind of doubt this pertains to Alleras due to Aemons desperate need to be there to support Danny. I want to lean on the idea this has more to do with the Targ Dynasty and or The Prince That Was Promised. One could even say Jon is the Sphinx due to be a little bit of a Targ / Start / Wildling etc.. You get where im going.

What do most of you think this sentence means.

I think, and it might be out there, but Aemon also references that Dragons are both male and female or neither one at the same time, iirc, and that's the riddle itself, as Sarella is Alleras and Alleras is Sarella, they are dulpilicity caught within the same being or person, loving and hateful, passive and aggressive, peaceful and violent et al. And that's what serves as a confirmation that Dany is tptwp after hearing her story along with the other signs that had happened.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I just figured it was a reference to Alleras' Sand's true identity. After all they call Alleras the Sphinx.

It could also mean that the riddles posed by the sphinx (any general sphinx) are insignificant compared to the riddle that is the sphinx.

Or it could be a combination of things suggested above. I think Alleras/Sarella is involved somehow though.

Aemon doesnt know Alleras/Sarella at all though. I seriously doubt anything he said had anything to do with Oberyns children. The quote from the OP is all about Jon and Dany and Aemon, the only Targ's left. IMO Jon is the Sphinx, he is a crow, a dragon and a wolf.