Brotherhood without banners/Lady Stoneheart

[jon stark I]

So Beric gave his "powers" to Lady Stoneheart because he believed in her and wanted her to get her vengence?

Also, who left the BwB after LS was appointed the new leader?

Yea, like most said, I see why the BwB follows LS now. RW showed who were the real bad guys. The Freys are supposed to be the new wardens of the Riverlands, but I seriously doubt they are doing anything to help the smallfolk there. And like stated before, after that war, it showed that the Boltons and Karstarks were probably the "Wolves" doing the bad things, not the Starks and Tullys.

Actually Harwin begged Thoros to give her kiss of fire but he rejected so Beric did it.Beric was tired of his existence and wanted to pass this world doing something "nice" I guess.He gave LSS a second chance for revenge.Harwin seems to be the mmost loyal men under her command.

[spunken en eggs]

I'd respond the many wrong points in the above posts if I could read it.

1 hanging ppl for wearing a segil is not legit, they could be made to wear them/ not know what they mean.

( arya would have bin hanged if her mom got here hands on here in the bolten segil after she escaped)

2 she leaves it up to her man to do most of the.. lets call them hangings.

3 the only thing giving here the power to do this is the killers she keeps about her.

good that u can read its wrong but not the text, i like that sort of clairvoyance.

[jon stark I]

1 hanging ppl for wearing a segil is not legit, they could be made to wear them/ not know what they mean.

( arya would have bin hanged if her mom got here hands on here in the bolten segil after she escaped)

2 she leaves it up to her man to do most of the.. lets call them hangings.

3 the only thing giving here the power to do this is the killers she keeps about her.

good that u can read its wrong but not the text, i like that sort of clairvoyance.

Are you real?Wearing a sigil and not knowing?They live in Westeros every smallfolk knows who their lord is what is their sigil and how do you suppose they would find armor or soldier uniforms?

What is the point in your 2?

So BWB are killers I guess by your point of view Lannisters and Boltons and Freys are the saviours all westeros has been waiting for.

Find a better argument to make this one makes no sense.

[spunken en eggs]

I didn't get any of that sorry.I can't decide which word is see and which one is she.

But to compare her with a serial killer and the likes of Lannisters is going a little too far.Did she order her men to go and raid Westernlands, did she order rape, torture?

Red god doesn't heal someone they are resurrected.Beric had all his death wounds and if I am not mistaken he was rotting a little.She was a ruined mess when they found her Freys cut open her throat then they threw her to the river NAKED.

I don't really understand your understanding of evil here.She hangs Freys the same guys who sewed his sons body to his direwolves head.I didn't see her doing that all she does is hanging criminals.

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE HER DO?

beric did heal, his nek was cut he was cut in half, he was hanged enzenz. no problem speaking on breating ( like her) en i did get the story en it is tragic, doesnt make it write to go on the same sort of rampage, we see rows of trees full of ppl, did she all "juge" them?

im starting to wish she got here hands on "arry" back then en hanged here for the sigil, what would u say then?

i would have her stay dead/end it again if given the chance. do we not know what happens to revenging zombie's? is there ever a happy end?

[Shpati]

Actually Harwin begged Thoros to give her kiss of fire but he rejected so Beric did it.Beric was tired of his existence and wanted to pass this world doing something "nice" I guess.He gave LSS a second chance for revenge.Harwin seems to be the mmost loyal men under her command.

Any reason why Thoros rejected?

I figured Beric did it because he was so tired and sick of life.

Also, would this make LSS a follower of the Lord of Light?

[spunken en eggs]

Are you real?Wearing a sigil and not knowing?They live in Westeros every smallfolk knows who their lord is what is their sigil and how do you suppose they would find armor or soldier uniforms?

What is the point in your 2?

So BWB are killers I guess by your point of view Lannisters and Boltons and Freys are the saviours all westeros has been waiting for.

Find a better argument to make this one makes no sense.

even jofry sentences the ppl do death himself,( en far less, less gruesome then her) she does noting like this.

en no alliances en marriages en trade pacts make wasteros, not killers en the people that wild them.

en yes u can get a armor/mantle from a dead solder in a war, ( arya remember ?)

red herring ? So BWB are killers I guess by your point of view Lannisters and Boltons and Freys are the saviours all westeros has been waiting for.

[Fat Trell]

Catelyn has every reason to distrust Brienne. Everything about her looks guilty, which makes her trial a lot better than the one we saw Beric give Sandor. Catelyn doesn't forget about the oath, which is why she names Brienne False Friend and Oathbreaker. But if you remember, one of the last things she sees in her former life was "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" before her world ended. She has no reason to think Jaime kept his oath nor Brienne.

Exactly. From any point of view but her own, Brienne looks like a loyal subject of King Tommen and his family.

Not to mention Brienne's honor is easily swayed by attraction. She joins in on Renly's usurpation of his nephews and brother for the sole reason of love. Why would Catelyn believe her incapable of switching loyalties again for Jaime?

[Shpati]

these dude is trolling lol (spunken en eggs)

[LordStoneheart]

*sigh* feeding time.

@spunken en eggs, your criticisms make no sense

First of all, Brienne is a highborn Lady. She knows full well what wearing a certain house's colors and sigils means to others. No matter what we know about her as readers, she undoubtedly looks guilty. I am a big fan of Brienne, but unfortunately the evidence is against her.

I have no idea what you're going on about Arya wearing the Bolton sigil, but its ludicrous to think that Arya merely wearing a Bolton sigil would be the only thing Catelyn sees. She would see the daughter she's missed. She would hear her our. In fact, she heard Brienne out too, but her testimony implicated her further.

What's wrong with having other people do the hangings for her? She has willing followers who will do things for her. That's not a bad thing for any leader.

You should do two things for me. the first is buy Hooked on Phonics or at least a dictionary. Second, I'm going to need you to see below.

[Ser Few of the Fingers]

Killing people indiscriminately is not justice, is just mindless vengeance. LS hangs people for being somewhat related to real criminals. Persuing justice would be to go and find Jaime Lannister, Walder Frey and Roose Bolton, collect evidence against them and judge them fairly. In contrast, LS "justice" is asking "is this person related to someone I hate?" if the answer is "yes", this person has to die. The relation between people can be wearing their sigils, having the same last name (Merret, Petyr), or just being hired or called to arms by their lords to go to war (imagine you are a peasant in the Westerlands and your liege lord tells you to fight the Battle of Oxcross, then you meet this zombie lady that yells "you are lannister, therefore, you probably burned crops and killed inocent people, die!", wouldn't you be a bit upset?).

It is very annoying to be on the side of spunken en eggs because (s)he is a tough ally to have, but (s)he is right in some points.

[Parizad]

How did Beric did it anyway? He was not a red priest so he should not have had that power to begin with. Furthermore red priests don't die after themselves. It's not like their life goes into the other person. My impression was that life comes back to the dead again, so they are like other people only damaged. But stoneheart doesn't seem the same sort of living as Beric. She is a lot like wights, walking dead but with memory

[jon stark I]

Killing people indiscriminately is not justice, is just mindless vengeance. LS hangs people for being somewhat related to real criminals. Persuing justice would be to go and find Jaime Lannister, Walder Frey and Roose Bolton, collect evidence against them and judge them fairly. In contrast, LS "justice" is asking "is this person related to someone I hate?" if the answer is "yes", this person has to die. The relation between people can be wearing their sigils, having the same last name (Merret, Petyr), or just being hired or called to arms by their lords to go to war (imagine you are a peasant in the Westerlands and your liege lord tells you to fight the Battle of Oxcross, then you meet this zombie lady that yells "you are lannister, therefore, you probably burned crops and killed inocent people, die!", wouldn't you be a bit upset?).

It is very annoying to be on the side of spunken en eggs because (s)he is a tough ally to have, but (s)he is right in some points.

So you suggest that loyal subject to the Lannisters a soldier who wears their sigil and does everything they say shoul be released.And also what other option we have other then hanging them?Did we actually see any other LS judgement other then the Frey and Brienne?And in both cases she didn't say anything like what you say.That Frey guy was there at the wedding so he was a part of it.Brienne had huge evidince against her but LS gave her a way out even then.

Well there is athing called free will and if what you say was true about being called to arms then there is always a way out like Karstarks did.

Also this is war and if you are willing to hol a weapon then you have to be ready to face the results of using that weapon.

You argument makes sense in a modern world but in Westeros it is not important.If you are a Lannister soldier you are either responsible for killing, raping or burning or you will be because that is all your Lord/Lady ordered.If you wear a Frey sigil then you know what they did and still you stay with them so you are a heretic(guest right), if you are a known criminal you have no way out.

It is not too complicated to understand by LSs point they are either criminals or they are potential threats either way they are still their enemy.

Your argument about Jaime, Bolton and Frey is a little bit like a childs dream.These guys are protected by thousands of men day and night they won't just wait for you to pass your judgement.What you can do is punish the ones you can find or lure.

[spunken en eggs]

*sigh* feeding time.

@spunken en eggs, your criticisms make no sense

First of all, Brienne is a highborn Lady. She knows full well what wearing a certain house's colors and sigils means to others. No matter what we know about her as readers, she undoubtedly looks guilty. I am a big fan of Brienne, but unfortunately the evidence is against her.

I have no idea what you're going on about Arya wearing the Bolton sigil, but its ludicrous to think that Arya merely wearing a Bolton sigil would be the only thing Catelyn sees. She would see the daughter she's missed. She would hear her our. In fact, she heard Brienne out too, but her testimony implicated her further.

What's wrong with having other people do the hangings for her? She has willing followers who will do things for her. That's not a bad thing for any leader.

You should do two things for me. the first is buy Hooked on Phonics or at least a dictionary. Second, I'm going to need you to see below.

my english is not good, i know, but i'm not trolling.

1 im not talking about brianne, uncat had a point there. i don't agree whit here, but most oathbreakers will pay whit there life in this world.

2 do u think cat talked to all those ppl en assest there guild before hanging? there every were in the riverlands, real remote places en every thing.

3 ( for the ppl that dint read the book that well -_-) arya wears bolten-clothing, with the sigil, when she escaped harrenhall ( coming back?) at the same time LSS starts here " campaign of justice". now if arya was captured (en not by LSS here self), she would have been hung as the traitor boy arry. ( not my wish, i love the girl.) (remember the fray-boy?, now replace him whit " arry the orphan boy" in bolten-sigel, think se would talk't her way out of that one?

i understand there is some love for cat here, i don't share it, but i'm not trolling, its just my opinion ( en examples from the book)in the best English i can manage.

ty Octavio, i don't try en make it harder on u, sry if it does happen.

en on a more cynical note, ty shpati for u'r great input.

Did we actually see any other LS judgement other then the Frey and Brienne? ( how do u supose all those hanging ppl got there?)

These guys are protected by thousands of men day and night they won't just wait for you to pass your judgement.What you can do is punish the ones you can find or lure.

the same go's for here, she is protected by man. should the lannisters hang sansa, just because they " can get to her" ? ( like she did the frayboy?)

if u assume lan/fr/bal to be evil, she cant do wrong. but this is not how we read gorge's books do we?

am i wrong in thinking he like's to make good ppl do horrible things? for understandable reasons? en this is one of em?

btw funny coincidence both u'r names are her son en .. did she remarry?

[jon stark I]

my english is not good, i know, but i'm not trolling.

1 im not talking about brianne, uncat had a point there. i don't agree whit here, but most oathbreakers will pay whit there life in this world.

2 do u think cat talked to all those ppl en assest there guild before hanging? there every were in the riverlands, real remote places en every thing.

3 ( for the ppl that dint read the book that well -_-) arya wears bolten-clothing, with the sigil, when she escaped harrenhall ( coming back?) at the same time LSS starts here " campaign of justice". now if arya was captured (en not by LSS here self), she would have been hung as the traitor boy arry. ( not my wish, i love the girl.) (remember the fray-boy?, now replace him whit " arry the orphan boy" in bolten-sigel, think se would talk't her way out of that one?

i understand there is some love for cat here, i don't share it, but i'm not trolling, its just my opinion ( en examples from the book)in the best English i can manage.

ty Octavio, i don't try en make it harder on u, sry if it does happen.

en on a more cynical note, ty shpati for u'r great input.

Did we actually see any other LS judgement other then the Frey and Brienne? ( how do u supose all those hanging ppl got there?)

These guys are protected by thousands of men day and night they won't just wait for you to pass your judgement.What you can do is punish the ones you can find or lure.

the same go's for here, she is protected by man. should the lannisters hang sansa, just because they " can get to her" ? ( like she did the frayboy?)

if u assume lan/fr/bal to be evil, she cant do wrong. but this is not how we read gorge's books do we?

am i wrong in thinking he like's to make good ppl do horrible things? for understandable reasons? en this is one of em?

btw funny coincidence both u'r names are her son en .. did she remarry?

Don't manipulate my words please.

First of all what I meant by "did we actually see any other ...." I meant did we witness how she hanged them how she judged them.So far she used very reasonable arguments to judge people both Frey and Brienne are reasonable.

I didn't say if you are protected by them you are an enemy and actually Sansa isn't protected by them try to find the difference between a captive and a captor.Sansa is a captive.And What I meant by that was she couldn't get to Walder, Jaime or Roose without having an army of at least thousands of men.Both three are lords with their own armies how can she get to them and judge them?

I suggest you write in your own language we can use translater to understand this is really mind melting to me.

[In A Coat of Gold]

Wow...what a beautiful shade of rose those glasses you guys are wearing are.

[CROW'S 3YE]

It took place at the Twins at a wedding marrying the Frey family to the King in the North. My bet is every Frey relative was there and had to have taken part in the RW so yes they're all guilty by association. It's dumb to think they're not. Also the Freys are threatening to hang her brother every day and she knows this because of her spy's so I think the executions are pretty just. Also she's not mutilating corposes or anything. She seems to be going pretty vanilla on the killings compared to what her and her son received.

[spunken en eggs]

Don't manipulate my words please.

First of all what I meant by "did we actually see any other ...." I meant did we witness how she hanged them how she judged them.So far she used very reasonable arguments to judge people both Frey and Brienne are reasonable.

I didn't say if you are protected by them you are an enemy and actually Sansa isn't protected by them try to find the difference between a captive and a captor.Sansa is a captive.And What I meant by that was she couldn't get to Walder, Jaime or Roose without having an army of at least thousands of men.Both three are lords with their own armies how can she get to them and judge them?

I suggest you write in your own language we can use translater to understand this is really mind melting to me.

i won't its a english forem,

how did i " manipulate" your words ?

because we dint see these people being hanged it dint happen? some one els did it?

brianne, nor the fray kid are part of a army, the are captives just like sansa

i do understand how some people are easy to get to in a war en some are not. that is no reason to hang the ones u can get to, for the crimes of the ones u cant. this is different in battle, but brianne notices how most of them don't have wounds, so this is no excuse.

the fray boy came as a envoy, this has writes, deny is beat to death whit the" u burn'd en envoy's tokar"

do u think he harmed any one? do u feel he was supposed to leave his family, friends, lands en name, for what his 3times removed relative did? what point would that have made ? would it bring them back? would they stop then? would they feel ashamed?

u can love cat, i can get it, but not every one she dislikes deserves to die, if only justice where that simple.

[AlliYoyo]

So Beric gave his "powers" to Lady Stoneheart because he believed in her and wanted her to get her vengence?

Also, who left the BwB after LS was appointed the new leader?

According to the appendices in AFFC, the following "Outlaws and Broken Men" are not part of LS's band:

Edric (Ned) Dayne (listed as Lord of Starfall)

The Mad Huntsman of Stoney Sept

Greenbeard, a Tyroshi sellsword

Anguy the Archer

Merrit o' Moontown

Watty the Miller

Swampy Meg

John o' Nuttin

I haven't got my copy of SoS in front of me, but I know that Ned Dayne, who was Dondarrion's squire, and Anguy were in the BwB.

[spunken en eggs]

It took place at the Twins at a wedding marrying the Frey family to the King in the North. My bet is every Frey relative was there and had to have taken part in the RW so yes they're all guilty by association. It's dumb to think they're not. Also the Freys are threatening to hang her brother every day and she knows this because of her spy's so I think the executions are pretty just. Also she's not mutilating corposes or anything. She seems to be going pretty vanilla on the killings compared to what her and her son received.

i'l reed it again but i think the kid recalls not being there at the wedding, even if he is, he dint kill or hurt or captured any one, he is at least as innocent as the lanniser kids. who karstakk killed en got beheaded for, that was justice.

same thing go's for her brother, what is the kid supposed to do, go rescue eddenmure in case he meets her? because its the write thing to do?

think he would have lost a head for that.

i don't think "hanging to be eaten by crows" is in any way a respectful way to treat dead bodies, they could even be calls mutilated if u ask me.

no one is excusing the fray's here, i don't think this excuses here to do as she like's/ hang whom she pleases, thats all.

[Reek Havoc]

According to the appendices in AFFC, the following "Outlaws and Broken Men" are not part of LS's band:

Edric (Ned) Dayne (listed as Lord of Starfall)

The Mad Huntsman of Stoney Sept

Greenbeard, a Tyroshi sellsword

Anguy the Archer

Merrit o' Moontown

Watty the Miller

Swampy Meg

John o' Nuttin

I haven't got my copy of SoS in front of me, but I know that Ned Dayne, who was Dondarrion's squire, and Anguy were in the BwB.

All BwB with the possible exception of Watty and John o'Nuttin. They probably are as well, but they're unaccounted for on the wiki. The names are there but their pages won't pop up for me. But if I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure that at least Watty was also BwB, if not both of them.