Moments of Foreshadowing 9

[Mithras]

The Most Devout must have been mad as well, to elevate this creature [High Sparrow] . . . mad, or terrified of the beggars at their doors. Qyburn’s whisperers claimed that Septon Luceon had been nine votes from elevation when those doors had given way, and the sparrows came pouring into the Great Sept with their leader on their shoulders and their axes in their hands.

When last the salt kings and the rock kings met in kingsmoot, Urron of Orkmont let his axemen loose among them, and Nagga’s ribs turned red with gore. House Greyiron ruled unchosen for a thousand years from that dark day, until the Andals came.

Both coups are the same.

High Sparrow seems far more educated than a normal septon, and not only in the Faith but in politics as well.

The septon had a lean sharp face and a short beard, grizzled grey and brown. His thin hair was pulled back and knotted behind his head, and his feet were bare and black, gnarled and hard as tree roots.

The man’s beard was grey and brown and closely trimmed, his hair tied up in a hard knot behind his head. Though his robes were clean, they were frayed and patched as well. He had rolled his sleeves up to his elbows as he scrubbed, but below the knees the cloth was soaked and sodden. His face was sharply pointed, with deep-set eyes as brown as mud. His feet are bare, she saw with dismay. They were hideous as well, hard and horny things, thick with callus.

Compare him to Haldon.

His companion was older, clean-shaved, with a lined ascetic face. His hair had been pulled back and tied in a knot behind his head.

They look like brothers, don’t they?

Crackpot time;

I think Haldon was the master at Dun Fort during the Defiance of Duskendale and High Sparrow is his brother. They studied in the Citadel together. When the defiance ended, Haldon was spared and sent to exile. He found his way among the GC. High Sparrow decided to join the Faith and served as a wandering septon. Both of them were approached by Team fAegon and became agents of Varys.

[Fire Eater]

Viserion's tail lashed sideways, thumping the trunk of the tree so hard that a pear came tumbling down at Dany's feet

This may be reaching, but the Germans believed pear trees symbolized a baby girl's birth. I think Dany will have a daughter before the series ends. The pear that falls to her feet is a result of Viserion, and I think that Viserion's rider would give Dany this baby girl. Tyrion has a lot of clues pointing to him riding Viserion. And I won't go into detail of the Freudian analysis of thumping a tree trunk hard.

Or the more likely interpretation is the Vale.

About that slippers;

Fire Eater posted

Which tze replied

Those small slippers were sent by the butcher king. Victarion (another would-be king who is no less butcher himself) has a small penis, which Dany should find not satisfying. But to see that it is not satisfying, she should try it first, just like she tried the slippers. I agree with tze that the dream of Dany refers to a Greyjoy but that one is Victarion, who is becoming more Euron every day. He is keeping a wizard like him, he is trying to think like “what would Euron do?” etc.

Euron has a fascination for the grotesque. Perhaps Victarion will adopt that too. He hated the monkeys in the Isle of Cedars but it is possible that he will keep Tyrion (who was referred to as a monkey a lot and at the same time sold to a grotesquery) in his company, which I think Moqorro will advise him to do.

“The man [Cleon the butcher king] was a fool, and his hands were red with blood.”

“I could sail the Iron Fleet to hell if need be.” When Victarion opened his hand, his palm was red with blood. “I’ll go to Slaver’s Bay, aye. I’ll find this dragon woman, and I’ll bring her back.” But not for you. You stole my wife and despoiled her, so I’ll have yours. The fairest woman in the world, for me.

I posted more about Dany-Victarion somewhere. I think Dany-Victarion sex is a must and a marriage is possible. Perhaps Dany will promise him to give her hand if he gives her father’s throne to her.

There is nothing to point to Victarion in Dany's dream. Them having sex isn't a must, except possibly in the minds of you and a few Victarion fans, no offense. :)

Crackpot time;

I think Haldon was the master at Dun Fort during the Defiance of Duskendale and High Sparrow is his brother. They studied in the Citadel together. When the defiance ended, Haldon was spared and sent to exile. He found his way among the GC. High Sparrow decided to join the Faith and served as a wandering septon. Both of them were approached by Team fAegon and became agents of Varys.

Haldon couldn't have been the maester as he has only six links, not even a full maester.

[Stormborn36]

Sansa book 1: "Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead; wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head."

When I first read Janos' death in ADWD, I did not remember this thought at all. On my re-read I caught it. Crazy how so early in the series Martin had something like this planned for a minor character. Also "some hero" are key words here, pertaining to Jon. Awesome.

[tf13]

Jon, ADWD, Alys Karstark Wedding Chapter

"Jon Snow could see his own reflection dimly inside the icy walls. "

Foreshadowing that Jon's body will be stored within the Wall before his eventual recovery/resurrection. "Dimly" makes it sound as if he'll still be alive, though just barely hanging on.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Captain Khorane had told him of the end of Stannis's hopes, on the night the river burned. The Lannisters had taken him from the flank, and his fickle bannermen had abandoned him by the hundreds in the hour of his greatest need. "King Renly's shade was seen as well," the captain said, "slaying right and left as he led the lion lord's van. It's said his green armor took a ghostly glow from the wildfire, and his antlers ran with golden flames."

Renly's shade. Davos wondered if his sons would return as shades as well. He had seen too many queer things on the sea to say that ghosts did not exist.

Davos II, Storm

So, does this foreshadow Davos's dead sons returning to life? Perhaps they survived and are being held in the Black Cells? Or does it lend support to other foreshadowing of sea monsters and/or dead things in the water?

ETA: Dale's ship was named Wraith...

[tf13]

One of the reasons I think Jon will have a connection with Viserion: Viserion is found by Quentyn burrowed deep into the wall of the pyramid; GRRM goes on to describe the wall's thickness, where a dragon is resting. Curiously, Jon's chapter comes next. Jon is a dragon who may just be resting within a thick Wall come the next book.

[IceFire125]

One of the reasons I think Jon will have a connection with Viserion: Viserion is found by Quentyn burrowed deep into the wall of the pyramid; GRRM goes on to describe the wall's thickness, where a dragon is resting. Curiously, Jon's chapter comes next. Jon is a dragon who may just be resting within a thick Wall come the next book.

I still think that Drogon will be the dragon that Jon will ride, however, if not Drogon, Viserion is a close second.

Viserion launched himself from the ceiling, pale leather wings unfolding, spreading wide. The broken chain dangling from his neck swung wildly. His flame lit the pit, pale gold shot through with red and orange...

The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she (Mel) heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange...

However, when Viserion had a tangle with one of the Brazen Beast men, he shot an arrow toward Viserion's neck, a trail of dragon blood was the result, glowing gold and red.

We know that Jon wound smoke similarly to Drogon's wound; Drogon is of black blood (Jon's heart is black), as was the dragon, Stormcloud in tPatQ.

[tf13]

In Jon's first AGoT chapter, he really has an opinion on kings. First noticing Robert looks like an oaf and how Jaime looks like a king, but he can see through the fake Lannister smiles. Not to mention Tyrion shadow standing as tall as a king. It's as if he knows how kingship should be at a young age, and develops a leading ability later on.

Eta: ghost is described as "snow white". Snow White was also a character who was resurrected.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Daenerys V, ClashDaenerys V, Clash

I thought I'd seen this one before, but my search didn't find it. This foreshadows Tyrion's trial in King's Landing. A fantastic reptilian beast, the basilisk was the king of serpents.

And then...

Near the kennels a group of men-at-arms were fighting a pair of dogs. Tyrion stopped long enough to see the smaller dog tear half the face off the larger one, and earned a few coarse laughs by observing that the loser now resembled Sandor Clegane.

Tyrion II, Storm

I suppose this foreshadows the eventual showdown between the brothers Clegane. It looks like Sandor will lose, but perhaps expose Gregor for the undead monster thst he has become...

[Mithras]

Tyrion II, Storm

I suppose this foreshadows the eventual showdown between the brothers Clegane. It looks like Sandor will lose, but perhaps expose Gregor for the undead monster thst he has become...Near the kennels a group of men-at-arms were fighting a pair of dogs. Tyrion stopped long enough to see the smaller dog tear half the face off the larger one, and earned a few coarse laughs by observing that the loser now resembled Sandor Clegane.

Good catch. I think means Sandor Clegane will take his revenge from UnGregor. Note that it will be Sandor Clegane, not the Hound.

“Most like they’re just some Umbers,” he said. “Or they could be Knotts or Norreys or Flints come down from the mountains, or even brothers from the Night’s Watch. Were they wearing black cloaks, Jojen?”

“By night all cloaks are black, Your Grace.”

A foreshadowing to what will happen after the NW is over and the Long Night 2.0. falls heavy. The remaining true brothers will be joined by mountain clans and Umbers first. They will fight the Others under Jon's command.

Lost Melnibonean added

Dusk had settled, turning all the banners black.

We noted these as foreshadowing to the eventual unification of the people against the common threat. I think there is another one.

“Are you blind, man?” Yoren waved his staff back and forth, making the cloak ripple. “You see a bloody lightning bolt?”

“By night all banners look black,” the knight in the spiked helm observed. “Open, or we’ll know you for outlaws in league with the king’s enemies.”

[tf13]

Jon III AGOT

"Get the Aurochs on his feet, he has funeral arrangements to make."

What will Jon's friends do when they hear of Jon's stabbing and potential death? Will they come to defend his body from the Red Woman?

ETA: "in a few years he would forget what it felt like to be warm."

Jon ADWD:

"He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold..."

[Lost Melnibonean]

Jon III AGOT

"Get the Aurochs on his feet, he has funeral arrangements to make."

What will Jon's friends do when they hear of Jon's stabbing and potential death? Will they come to defend his body from the Red Woman?

ETA: "in a few years he would forget what it felt like to be warm."

Jon ADWD:

"He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold..."

I expect so. I posted this in Fire Eater's Ides of Marsh thread...

The multple daggers used in the assassination of a leader was not th e only allusion to the assassination of Julius Caesar. Just as Wick barely grazed Jon's neck with the first dagger, Casca was the first to cut Ceaser with a glancing cut to the neck. Just as Ceaser caught Casca by the arm, Jon caught Wick's wrist. Just as Wick retreated and put his arms up, Casca was frighted and shouted for help. That Jon understood this to mean that Wick was denying involvement was very curious. I'm not sure what to make of that other tjan he might have been mistaken. Another thing that was very curious was his inability to draw Longclaw. I've seen this discussed elsewhere so I'll just point out that he did flex jis hand once earlier in that chapter. That Bowen Marsh wept and claimed to be doing it for the Watch clearly alluded to Brutus.

"Let's kill him boldly, but not wrathfully; Let's carve him as a dish fit for the gods, Not hew him as a carcass fit for hounds:"

And Brutus expected his fellow Romans to be glad, going so far as to persuade his fellow conspirators to ignore Marcus Antonius. Given the strong allusion to the assassination of Julius Caesar I'm assuming that Bowen will expect his brothers to be glad. I don't think he has a plan. And much like Brutus was forced to flee Rome in short order I think Bowen is in a very, very tight spot.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Twow, Rogue Prince and TPatQ Spoilers:

The free cities, at least Myr, Lys and Tyrosh seem to be always at war or at the brink of war.

It could be worth checking, but I think Cersei is always wrong during AFFC. Every concept or idea she has is worth analyzing on the assumption that things will go exactly the opposite way of what she thinks. I find it interesting that Tyrosh and Lys are finally seeking for peace, while, without the Golden Company, Myr wont be warring with her neighbors. Maybe the Free cities will not always be fighting one another as Cersei thinks, and this time their alliances will be very important to Westeros future.

Crackpot alert: I think we will see the rebirth of the Kingdom of the Three daughters (or an alliance between those three cities), and that they will play a part during the Dance of Dragons 2.0

the three victorious cities had entered into an

eternal alliance and formed a strong new power: the Triarchy, better known in Westeros as the Kingdom of the Three Daughters, or, more rudely, the Three Whores (this kingdom was without a king, being governed by a council of thirty-three magisters)

It was after all, said to be an Eternal Alliance. It didn´t last very long, perhaps this is a clue it might come back

by 109 AC Daemon Targaryen and his army of sellswords and cutthroats controlled all but two of the islands, and the Sea Snakes fleets had taken firm control of the waters between. During this brief moment of victory, Prince Daemon declared himself King of the Stepstones and the Narrow Sea, and Lord Corlys placed a crown upon his head . but their kingdom was far from secure. The next year, the Kingdom of the Three Daughters dispatched a fresh invasion force under the command of a devious Tyroshi captain named Racallio Ryndoon, surely one of the most curious and flamboyant rogues in the annals of history, and Dorne joined the war in alliance with the Triarchy. Fighting resumed.

In the Rogue Prince, in their thirst of power, Prince Daemon and Corlys Velaryon conquered the Stepstones and established a kingdom there. They fought against the Triarchy and Dorne for the control of the region.

Daemon Targaryen and his army of sellswords and cutthroats

()

The fighting began in 106 AC. Prince Daemon had little difficulty assembling an army of landless adventurers and second sons, and won many victories during the first two years of the conflict.

()

that savage sellsword kingdom ended for good and all

I find certain parallelisms with the current events.

There are bodies in the water. A few have washed up on our shores. And thats not half of it. A new pirate king has set up on Torturers Deep. The Lord of the Waters, he styles himself. This one has real warships, three-deckers, monstrous large.You were wise not to come by sea. Since the Redwyne fleet passed through the Stepstones, those waters are crawling with strange sails, all the way north to the Straights of Tarth and Shipbreakers Bay. Myrmen, Volantenes, Lyseni, even reavers from the Iron Islands. Some have entered the Sea of Dorne to land men on the south shore of Cape Wrath. We found a good fast ship for you, as your father commanded, but even so... be careful."

This new pirate king, self-styled Lord of the Waters is non-other than the bastard Velaryon. I think he is fighting the Myrish and the Lysene pirates for the control of the Stepstones. (the ships from Volantis were just the ones that carried Aegon´s army, and the reavers of the Iron islands was the Iron fleet on its way to Meereen, or some of the ships that were lost on the way)

Aurane waters do have certain similarities with Daemon and Corlys in his attempts to control the stepstones. He was a sellsail in service of Stannis, then he bent the knee, got a fleet, crewed it with his own people ( young sellswords with no loyalty to the crown), and stole the ships.. he sounds like a rogue..

He is using the same kind of people, Daemon used to build his own kingdom.

One could understand how this could unite the Three Daughters again.

The curious thing is that chips are falling in a certain way that the Three Daughters 2.0, if involved in the Dance, will fight in (f)Aegon´s side. The new green side. Just like the last time.

Highgarden refuses to hire sellsails from the free cities, but Hightower is actually attempting to do so.

Here Im assuming that Fire Eater is correct in his theory (can´t find the link) that Oldtown will declare for Aegon after he saves the city from Euron. Wouldn´t it be interesting if Cerse´s plan backfires and the ships from the Free Cities end up fighting against her?

Note that relevant players seem to have great connections there:

Lynesse Hightower seems to have real power in Lys.

Doran seems to have good relations with the Archon of Tyrosh. Good enough to send his daughter and heir to serve him.

Illyrio as well.

Again, Dorne joined the Triarchy against the king of the Stepstones. Dorne will most likely join (f)Aegon.

The triarchy had a Lysene admiral during the Original Dance of Dragon. We also have a spare Lysene captain, Salladhor Saan, whom styles himself Prince of the Narrow sea. Will he fight for Lys? Btw, he is the son of Samarro Saan, one of the Band of Nine. So naturally we should think he would side with the Blackfyre pretender.

Battle in the Gullet 2.0.

Ninety warships swept from the Stepstones under the banners of the Three Daughters, bending their oars for the Gullet

()

When Prince Jacaerys swept down upon a line of Lysene galleys on Vermax, a rain of spears and arrows rose up to meet him. The sailors of the Triarchy had faced dragons before whilst warring against Prince Daemon in the Stepstones. No man could fault their courage;

The battle of the Gullet is considered a victory for the Triarchy since their sailors had experience fighting Dragons ( King Daemon over the Stepstones). This time, they won´t have any experience.

Tyrion, who takes dragonstone (for dany),

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/81408-moments-of-foreshadowing-4/?p=4203914

will come with Viserion against their fleet

Is this product of my imagination?

You should start a thread with this. I would like to see the discussion that follows.

[HexMachina]

You should start a thread with this. I would like to see the discussion that follows.

I think he did at some point. Or it might have gone in the RP thread.

[The Drowned Prophet]

A smile played across Euron’s blue lips. “I am the storm, my lord. The first storm, and the last. I have taken the Silence on longer voyages than this, and ones far more hazardous. Have you forgotten? I have sailed the Smoking Sea and seen Valyria.”

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

(My first post!)

I am not really surely if we can have something foreshadowed and then happen within the same chapter. But I thought this was interesting (surely been said before, of course).

From AFFC "The Prophet" (Ch.1) (Emphasis added)

He [balon] was born a lord's son and died a king, murdered by a jealous god, Aeron thought, and now the storm is coming, a storm such as these isles have never known.

So we get an early foreshadowing of Euron. It is interesting that he is described as "such as these isles have never known" given that he only left two years - my guess is that it hints at how much he has changed since he left.

Then, later in the same chapter

Aeron tugged his beard, and thought. I have seen the storm, and its name is Euron Crow's Eye.

Of course, we also get numerous references to the Storm God as evil etc by Aeron (all a matter of POV though I suppose).

ETA: Sorry for replying to a post so far back, I was waiting to be verified by an admin (thanks for that btw!)

[Lost Melnibonean]

Perhaps Jeyne will persuade Catelyn to put aside her vengeance...

"It will not be much longer," Maester Vyman warned her, when he came that afternoon. "His last strength is going, though still he tries to fight."

"He was ever a fighter," she said. "A sweet stubborn man."

"Yes," the maester said, "but this battle he cannot win. It is time he lay down his sword and shield. Time to yield."

To yield, she thought, to make a peace. Was it her father the maester was speaking of, or her son?

At evenfall, Jeyne Westerling came to see her. The young queen entered the solar timidly. "Lady Catelyn, I do not mean to disturb you . . . "

"You are most welcome here, Your Grace." Catelyn had been sewing, but she put the needle aside now.

"Please. Call me Jeyne. I don't feel like a Grace."

"You are one, nonetheless. Please, come sit, Your Grace."

Catelyn III, Storm

[Sword of the Morgan]

She threw back the shutters and shivered as gooseprickles rose along her arms. There were clouds massing in the eastern sky, pierced by shafts of sunlight. They look like two huge castles afloat in the morning sky. Sansa could see their walls of tumbled stone, their mighty keeps and barbicans. Wispy banners swirled from atop their towers and reached for the fast-fading stars. The sun was coming up behind them, and she watched them go from black to grey to a thousand shades of rose and gold and crimson. Soon the wind mushed them together, and there was only one castle where there had been two.

She heard the door open as her maids brought the hot water for her bath. They were both new to her service; Tyrion said the women who’d tended to her previously had all been Cersei’s spies, just as Sansa had always suspected. “Come see,” she told them. “There’s a castle in the sky.”

They came to have a look. “It’s made of gold.” Shae had short dark hair and bold eyes. She did all that was asked of her, but sometimes she gave Sansa the most insolent looks. “A castle all of gold, there’s a sight I’d like to see.”

“A castle, is it?” Brella had to squint. “That tower’s tumbling over, looks like. It’s all ruins, that is.”

People have made several interpretations of this scene. This is obviously important because it is long and enigmatic.

My theory is that this whole imagery is mostly about Jaime and Brienne.

These two castles are Jaime and Brienne. The castles were initially black (they hated each other). As the sun goes up, they turned to grey. After the bathtub incident, their view of one another changed and their relationship turned to grey. And soon after, they fell in love with each other. Note that gold and crimson are associated with Lannisters. And House Tarth has yellow suns and white crescent moons on rose and azure. Most of these heraldic imagery is present in the scene.

The wind mushes these castles together and they are merged into a single castle. This is the consummation of their relationship and I expect it to happen in TWoW because it is the wind that brings them together.

Shae claims that one castle is made of gold. Note that Shae was the beloved of Tyrion at that time and she was very good to him. Just like Jaime was the only one to love Tyrion and he had a queer affection to him. Later we see that Shae betrays Tyrion and Tyrion learns that Jaime had betrayed him about Tysha. So, Shae represents the side of Jaime here.

The other maid of Sansa is Brella. She has a pessimistic realism, a feature fit for Brienne. There is another thing they share in common:

“I served with Lord Renly before m’lady Sansa, and both turned traitor,” the woman Brella complained bitterly.

Brella served Renly once. So did Brienne. Now, Brella is serving Lady Stark. So is Brienne. So, Brella represents the side of Brienne here.

The tumbling tower seems like an eventual death. I expect Jaime to die and Brienne to give birth to their son, who will be raised by Jon and he will make a far greater knight than both of his parents combined.

I think Jaime will return to KL and become Cersei’s Hand to the end of ADoS. After the Others are defeated, Jon will come with a force to the KL to save Sansa, who has been a prisoner of Cersei the whole time. Jon will not be able to move and we will see the Defiance of Duskendale 2.0. where the Mad Queen is the defiant in this case. Arya, Pod, Brienne, Sandor will make a rescue mission to get Sansa out. Pod will slay Osmund and sadly die in front of Sansa, whom he had a crush in ASoS. Arya will take out Ser Meryn and she will manage to stab Cersei fatally. Sandor will slay UnGregor but he will not survive the fight. Jaime will help them on the mission since he had said Sansa is his last chance to honor. In the end, Cersei will decide to activate the wildfire plot to not let Jon sit on the throne of his ancestors. Jaime will strangle her with the Hand’s chain but at the same time she will stab Jaime fatally. This time, Jaime will not be able to save the city. The KL will be mostly burned but Bran will summon the Hammer of Waters to put out the fire and save as much as he can. I think the visions Mel saw might be related to this finale.

Visions danced before her, gold and scarlet, flickering, forming and melting and dissolving into one another, shapes strange and terrifying and seductive. She saw the eyeless faces again, staring out at her from sockets weeping blood. Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths. Shadows in the shape of skulls, skulls that turned to mist, bodies locked together in lust, writhing and rolling and clawing. Through curtains of fire great winged shadows wheeled against a hard blue sky.

This is very interesting and detailed. Obviously the more detail involved the less likely it is to be accurate, but it is an interesting scenario. However, I have a hard time seeing Jaime being Cersei's hand after all that has transpired.

[Sword of the Morgan]

Jon, ADWD, Alys Karstark Wedding Chapter

"Jon Snow could see his own reflection dimly inside the icy walls. "

Foreshadowing that Jon's body will be stored within the Wall before his eventual recovery/resurrection. "Dimly" makes it sound as if he'll still be alive, though just barely hanging on.

I just reread this chapter two days ago and noticed the same line. I am confident that Jon is going to warg into Ghost for the beginning of WoW and will eventually be resurrected somehow. This fits with that.

[Mithras]

The dwarf pushed his black dragon across a range of mountains. “But what do I know? Your false father is a great lord, and I am just some twisted little monkey man. Still, I’d do things differently.”

That got the boy’s attention. “How differently?”

“If I were you? I would go west instead of east. Land in Dorne and raise my banners.”

Tyrion pushed his black dragon cyvasse piece across a range of mountains. At the same time, he advised fAegon to go to Dorne. fAegon took Storm’s End and it looks like he will go across a range of mountains (the Red Mountains) to make alliance with Dorne, as Tyrion advised.

Black dragon flying over the Red Mountains.

[The Bedding]

After delivering the pink letter to Jon, Jon Snow asks someone to help Clydas back to the Castle, saying:

Where is the usual "The night is dark, and full of terrors."? Is this a foreshadow that Snow will mess up Mel's plans, her 'paths'?

WOW