Moments of Foreshadowing 9

[chrisdaw]

maybe that in the battle for dawn old alliances and fealty will be forgotten and everyone must work together.

Something like another pact, between the First Men North, a vast host of wildlings, giants and wargs, and the Andal South, invaders that came from Essos and took the continent up to the Neck. Maybe at the God's eye, before they both turn North to defend the trident as per Dany's dream.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

In life, Ser Myles Toyne had been ugly as sin. His famous forebear, the dark and dashing Terrence Toyne of whom the singers sang, had been so fair of face that even the king’s mistress could not resist him; but Myles had been possessed of jug ears, a crooked jaw, and the biggest nose that Jon Connington had ever seen. When he smiled at you, though, none of that mattered.

At a lord’s court the girl would never have been considered anything but common, he knew. She had a round peasant face, a pug nose, and slightly crooked teeth, and her eyes were too far apart. Jon had noticed all that the first time he’d seen her, when his dirk had been at her throat. Lately, though, he was noticing some other things. When she grinned, the crooked teeth didn’t seem to matter.

She [Ygritte] had a warm smile, despite her crooked teeth.

Looks like JonCon had a thing for good old Ser Myles Toyne.

Their conversation about TBotB was totally pillow talk.

It is known.

[DragonDreamer]

Jon will know who his true parents were but will never reveal it.

Jon AGOT:

"For the rest of his life— however long that might be— he would be condemned to be an outsider, the silent man standing in the shadows who dares not speak his true name. Wherever he might go throughout the Seven Kingdoms, he would need to live a lie, lest every man’s hand be raised against him.”

[Uldra I]

Jon will know who his true parents were but will never reveal it.

Jon AGOT:

Totally missed this in both readings. Surely, learning his name won't condemn him to living silent in the shadows as an outsider though? Wow this one is interesting.

ETA: when Jon said that he was still alive, and he has had to live as an outsider and looked down on. Now, if he is dead and resurrected, then maybe that all changes, especially when he learns his real name.

[DragonDreamer]

Totally missed this in both readings. Surely, learning his name won't condemn him to living silent in the shadows as an outsider though? Wow this one is interesting.

ETA: when Jon said that he was still alive, and he has had to live as an outsider and looked down on. Now, if he is dead and resurrected, then maybe that all changes, especially when he learns his real name.

I don't think him feeling like an outsider will change much after he recovers/resurrected. He'll feel like an outsider because he doesn't really belong with either the Starks or the Targaryen. He was raced with the Starks but he's not really one and he's a Targaryen but he doesn't know them at all, they are strangers to him.

To your ETA, he says "his life" whether it's this one or the next it's still "his life". If you look at what he says closely he says "not dare speak his true name". Now, why would he not dare to speak his name now, he's Snow and everyone knows he's a Snow, he can't really hide it. I think this is about him not daring to speak his Targaryen name, his true name.

[Uldra I]

I don't think him feeling like an outsider will change much after he recovers/resurrected. He'll feel like an outsider because he doesn't really belong with either the Starks or the Targaryen. He was raced with the Starks but he's not really one and he's a Targaryen but he doesn't know them at all, they are strangers to him.

To your ETA, he says "his life" whether it's this one or the next it's still "his life". If you look at what he says closely he says "not dare speak his true name". Now, why would he not dare to speak his name now, he's Snow and everyone knows he's a Snow, he can't really hide it. I think this is about him not daring to speak his Targaryen name, his true name.

Yeah I see that now. I think you are right. If he had spoken his true name (Targaryen) all the contenders for the IT would be seeking his death. It is odd the Martin worded it like that in the first place, considering what you said... no one knows he is Targ, and the bastard name Snow was common place. That definitely makes that line a foreshadow. Good One!

[Fire Eater]

in the days when the Seven Kingdoms were ruled in all but name by the bastard sorcerer men called Bloodraven.

"The king is missing his sword," Lady Dustin observed.

It was true. Theon did not recall which king it was, but the longsword he should have held was gone. Streaks of rust remained to show where it had been. The sight disquieted him. He had always heard that the iron in the sword kept the spirits of the dead locked within their tombs. If a sword was missing . . .

When he [Jon] put his hand to the side of his neck, blood welled between his fingers.

I think Jon's longsword, Longclaw, will be taken from him while he is put in the ice cells. The red rust in the king's fingers could point to the blood on Jon's hands. Swords in the crypts are said to keep the dead from rising, and this could foreshadow the king, Jon, rising from his "tomb." The swords are removed by Bran's party. Bloodraven is mentioned just before this, and I think him and Bran will be meeting Jon after the Ides of Marsh, and be instrumental in his resurrection.

This could also foreshadow Jon visiting the crypts while he is out, and complete the dream he mentioned in AGoT.

So the Winged Knight slayed the Griffin King.

I think this foreshadows that another winged knight (yet to be determined) will kill the Griffin's King, Fake Aegon.

Perhaps the Blackfish who served House Arryn for years, and as Bracken described "hadn't yet grown wings"? Wings that he could get by leading the forces of House Arryn in the second Dance?

Jon will know who his true parents were but will never reveal it.

Jon AGOT:

I think eventually he will, or there is little point to R+L=J. All secrets are revealed in due time.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Yeah I see that now. I think you are right. If he had spoken his true name (Targaryen) all the contenders for the IT would be seeking his death. It is odd the Martin worded it like that in the first place, considering what you said... no one knows he is Targ, and the bastard name Snow was common place. That definitely makes that line a foreshadow. Good One!

I would think the George intended this as yet another subtle hint at Jon's true parents rather than a foreshadowing. It might also be a subtle hint that Rhaegar wed Lyanna.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Twow, Rogue Prince and TPatQ Spoilers:

There is fighting on the Stepstones, and a new war between Tyrosh and Lys seems likely. Both hope to win Myr as ally.

Myr is on the point of war with Lys and Tyrosh.

The free cities, at least Myr, Lys and Tyrosh seem to be always at war or at the brink of war.

(qyburn) There is talk that the Archon of Tyrosh has offered terms to Lys, to end their present trade war. It had been rumored that Myr was about to enter the war on the Tyroshi side, but without the Golden Company the Myrish did not believe they . . .”

(Cersei)“What the Myrish believe does not concern me.” The Free Cities were always fighting one another. Their endless betrayals and alliances meant little and less to Westeros. “Do you have any news of more import?”

It could be worth checking, but I think Cersei is always wrong during AFFC. Every concept or idea she has is worth analyzing on the assumption that things will go exactly the opposite way of what she thinks. I find it interesting that Tyrosh and Lys are finally seeking for peace, while, without the Golden Company, Myr won’t be warring with her neighbors. Maybe the Free cities will not always be fighting one another as Cersei thinks, and this time their alliances will be very important to Westeros future.

Crackpot alert: I think we will see the rebirth of the Kingdom of the Three daughters (or an alliance between those three cities), and that they will play a part during the Dance of Dragons 2.0

the three victorious cities had entered into an

“eternal alliance” and formed a strong new power: the Triarchy, better known in Westeros as the Kingdom of the Three Daughters, or, more rudely, the Three Whores (this “kingdom” was without a king, being governed by a council of thirty-three magisters)

It was after all, said to be an “Eternal Alliance”. It didn´t last very long, perhaps this is a clue it might come back…

by 109 AC Daemon Targaryen and his army of sellswords and cutthroats controlled all but two of the islands, and the Sea Snake’s fleets had taken firm control of the waters between. During this brief moment of victory, Prince Daemon declared himself King of the Stepstones and the Narrow Sea, and Lord Corlys placed a crown upon his head …. but their “kingdom” was far from secure. The next year, the Kingdom of the Three Daughters dispatched a fresh invasion force under the command of a devious Tyroshi captain named Racallio Ryndoon, surely one of the most curious and flamboyant rogues in the annals of history, and Dorne joined the war in alliance with the Triarchy. Fighting resumed.

In the Rogue Prince, in their thirst of power, Prince Daemon and Corlys Velaryon conquered the Stepstones and established a kingdom there. They fought against the Triarchy and Dorne for the control of the region.

Daemon Targaryen and his army of sellswords and cutthroats

(…)

The fighting began in 106 AC. Prince Daemon had little difficulty assembling an army of landless adventurers and second sons, and won many victories during the first two years of the conflict.

(…)

that savage sellsword “kingdom” ended for good and all

I find certain parallelisms with the current events.

There are bodies in the water. A few have washed up on our shores. And that’s not half of it. A new pirate king has set up on Torturer’s Deep. The Lord of the Waters, he styles himself. This one has real warships, three-deckers, monstrous large.You were wise not to come by sea. Since the Redwyne fleet passed through the Stepstones, those waters are crawling with strange sails, all the way north to the Straights of Tarth and Shipbreaker’s Bay. Myrmen, Volantenes, Lyseni, even reavers from the Iron Islands. Some have entered the Sea of Dorne to land men on the south shore of Cape Wrath. We found a good fast ship for you, as your father commanded, but even so... be careful."

This new pirate king, self-styled “Lord of the Waters” is non-other than the bastard Velaryon. I think he is fighting the Myrish and the Lysene pirates for the control of the Stepstones. (the ships from Volantis were just the ones that carried Aegon´s army, and the reavers of the Iron islands was the Iron fleet on its way to Meereen, or some of the ships that were lost on the way)

Aurane waters do have certain similarities with Daemon and Corlys in his attempts to control the stepstones. He was a sellsail in service of Stannis, then he bent the knee, got a fleet, crewed it with his own people ( young sellswords with no loyalty to the crown), and stole the ships.. he sounds like a rogue..

“Our new dromonds will need oarsmen,” said Aurane Waters. “Let us instruct the lords to send their poachers and thieves to me henceforth, instead of to the Wall.”

He is using the same kind of people, Daemon used to build his own kingdom.

One could understand how this could unite the Three Daughters again.

The curious thing is that chips are falling in a certain way that the Three Daughters 2.0, if involved in the Dance, will fight in (f)Aegon´s side. The new “green” side. Just like the last time.

(Loras) “And when the longships of the ironborn descend upon our ragtag fleet as it is making its way across this ‘little stretch of water,’ what would Your Grace have us do then?”

Drown, thought Cersei. “Highgarden has gold as well. You have my leave to hire sellsails from beyond the narrow sea.”

“Pirates out of Myr and Lys, you mean?” Loras said with contempt. “The scum of the Free Cities?”

Highgarden refuses to hire sellsails from the free cities, but Hightower is actually attempting to do so.

The Hightower must be doing something.”

“To be sure. Lord Leyton’s locked atop his tower with the Mad Maid, consulting books of spells. Might be he’ll raise an army from the deeps. Or not. Baelor’s building galleys, Gunthor has charge of the harbor, Garth is training new recruits, and Humfrey’s gone to Lys to hire sellsails. If he can winkle a proper fleet out of his whore of a sister, we can start paying back the ironmen with some of their own coin.

Here I’m assuming that Fire Eater is correct in his theory (can´t find the link) that Oldtown will declare for Aegon after he saves the city from Euron. Wouldn´t it be interesting if Cerse´s plan backfires and the ships from the Free Cities end up fighting against her?

Note that relevant players seem to have great connections there:

While I (Jorah) was fighting Braavosi on the Rhoyne, Lynesse moved into the manse of a merchant prince named Tregar Ormollen. They say she is his chief concubine now, and even his wife goes in fear of her.”

Lynesse Hightower seems to have real power in Lys.

“It has not been so long since you were playing in those pools. You used to ride the shoulders of an older girl . . . a tall girl with wispy yellow hair . . .”

“Jeyne Fowler, or her sister Jennelyn.” It had been years since Arianne had thought of that. “Oh, and Frynne, her father was a smith. Her hair was brown. Garin was my favorite, though. When I rode Garin no one could defeat us, not even Nym and that green-haired Tyroshi girl.”

“That green-haired girl was the Archon’s daughter. I was to have sent you to Tyrosh in her place. You would have served the Archon as a cupbearer and met with your betrothed in secret, but your mother threatened to harm herself if I stole another of her children, and I . . . I could not do that to her.”

Doran seems to have good relations with the Archon of Tyrosh. Good enough to send his daughter and heir to serve him.

Illyrio whispered to them. “Those three are Drogo’s bloodriders, there,” he said. “By the pillar is Khal Moro, with his son Rhogoro. The man with the green beard is brother to the Archon of Tyrosh,

Illyrio as well.

The next year, the Kingdom of the Three Daughters dispatched a fresh invasion force under the command of a devious Tyroshi captain named Racallio Ryndoon, surely one of the most curious and flamboyant rogues in the annals of history, and Dorne joined the war in alliance with the Triarchy. Fighting resumed.

Again, Dorne joined the Triarchy against the king of the Stepstones. Dorne will most likely join (f)Aegon.

The Triarchy’s admiral Sharako Lohar had taken a combined fleet of ninety Myrish, Lysene, and Tyroshi warships from the Stepstones;

The triarchy had a Lysene admiral during the Original Dance of Dragon. We also have a spare Lysene captain, Salladhor Saan, whom styles himself Prince of the Narrow sea. Will he fight for Lys? Btw, he is the son of Samarro Saan, one of the Band of Nine. So naturally we should think he would side with the Blackfyre pretender.

Battle in the Gullet 2.0.

Ninety warships swept from the Stepstones under the banners of the Three Daughters, bending their oars for the Gullet

(…)

When Prince Jacaerys swept down upon a line of Lysene galleys on Vermax, a rain of spears and arrows rose up to meet him. The sailors of the Triarchy had faced dragons before whilst warring against Prince Daemon in the Stepstones. No man could fault their courage;

The battle of the Gullet is considered a victory for the Triarchy since their sailors had experience fighting Dragons ( “King” Daemon over the Stepstones). This time, they won´t have any experience.

(Tyrion) Oh, it was all too much. Plots within plots, but all roads lead down the dragon’s gullet.

Tyrion, who takes dragonstone (for dany),

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/81408-moments-of-foreshadowing-4/?p=4203914

will come with Viserion against their fleet

Is this product of my imagination?

[Lost Melnibonean]

@Lord Too Fat... I like it. I like it a lot. A whole lot. Here's a minor thing to consider, though... Salladhor spike very disparaging of Illyrio. It might be difficult for those two to work together. And do you believe that Daenerys will join with Aurane?

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

@Lord Too Fat... I like it. I like it a lot. A whole lot. Here's a minor thing to consider, though... Salladhor spike very disparaging of Illyrio. It might be difficult for those two to work together. And do you believe that Daenerys will join with Aurane?

is this Davos II ASOS? Salladhor speaks of Illyrio obesity.. i find that passage mildly supportive, since it shows Salladhor and Illyrio know each other. At least for those of us who believe in the theory of (f)Aegon with Illyrio as a blackfyre.. he would know the band of nine.

Then again Salladhor might have connections everywhere.

yes, i see Aurane on dany´s side of the Dance.

[Fire Eater]

Is this product of my imagination?

I think imagination is requirement for finding foreshadowing, and I think you may have something. Other than that, I think the only thing you are imagining is that the mods will be okay with you posting stuff that isn't supposed to be released until June 17.

[bogdevil]

i started a thread in TWOW forum but it hasn't had much traffic. In the WOIAF sample on GRRM's site it states that

the massey's and the other house on Massey's hook were sworn to Storm's End but sided with Aegon the Conqueror instead of Argilac.

could this possibly foreshadow Justin Massey betraying Stannis?

[Mithras]

i started a thread in TWOW forum but it hasn't had much traffic. In the WOIAF sample on GRRM's site it states that

the massey's and the other house on Massey's hook were sworn to Storm's End but sided with Aegon the Conqueror instead of Argilac.

could this possibly foreshadow Justin Massey betraying Stannis?

Agreed

[tf13]

@Lord Too Fat... I like it. I like it a lot. A whole lot. Here's a minor thing to consider, though... Salladhor spike very disparaging of Illyrio. It might be difficult for those two to work together. And do you believe that Daenerys will join with Aurane?

I think the fact that Cersei thinks of him as almost a Targ himself sets him up to either be confronted, allied by Dany or destroyed by her.

[SerArthurHeath]

I don't know if it's been found yet, but some foreshadowing for Jaime and his interactions with Cat.

"Lannister raised his head. Lady Stark, he said from his knees. Blood ran down one cheek from a gash across his scalp, but the pale light of dawn had put the glint of gold back in his hair. I would offer you my sword, but I seem to have mislaid it.

It is not your sword I want, ser, she told him. Give me my father and my brother Edmure. Give me my daughters. Give me my lord husband.

I have mislaid them as well, I fear.

A pity, Catelyn said coldly.

Kill him, Robb, Theon Greyjoy urged. Take his head off.

No, her son answered, peeling off his bloody glove. Hes more use alive than dead. And my

lord father never condoned the murder of prisoners after a battle.

A wise man, Jaime Lannister said, and honorable."

Since Jaime has permanently mislaid his sword hand, and when asked by SH and the Band about Cat's daughters, has lost them (or his House has, too), after also "losing" Ned (though not Edmure). Now we shall see whether they think Jaime is more use alive than dead, again in Cat and Jaime's 3rd interaction. The topic of his sword, Ned and Cat's daughters and Jaime's usefulness alive not dead are also more explicit and key to Cat and Jaime's 2nd interaction so I suspect the 3rd time will be in GRRM's triple reveal pattern and we will see Jaime survive and his sword hand, Ned and the girls all looked at in great detail.

[chrisdaw]

Will come with Viserion against their fleet

Is this product of my imagination?

No.

Consider the foreshadowing of how Tyrion will come to take Viserion, wiping blood from the piece

. Jace flew too low in the battle of the gullet and Vermax fell into the sea, Jace was then killed by crossbow. And we have Victarion screwing around with crossbows and monkeys, and Tyrion rather adept with a cross bow. Viserys II who is Tyrion's strong parallel was also at the battle, but hid his dragon egg. And Doran's about it being easy enough to hide a young dragon in a boats hold (though I don't see how it wouldn't burn the boat down).

TWOIAF reading of Visenya's taking of the Vale chimes in far too conveniently with Robert wanting to see the bad man fly (and the many other examples from TWOIAF reading).

Visenya like all VisTargs foreshadows Tyrion as he rides Viserion.

With Visenya the battle was lost by the Targs, then Visenya came and burnt down the Arryn fleet

. So I believe the foreshadowing is leading us towards Victarion (assuming the dragon horn does it's thing and it's him with Viserion) screwing up, getting Viserion hurt and then getting crossbowed. Then Tyrion assumes control of Viserion and goes burns the fleet (Water's Lord Tywin flagship is begging Tyrion to burn it. Maybe Tyrion even does the crossbowing himself, perhaps Vic's carelessness with Viserion upsets him, and he always wanted a dragon, in the heat of battle who would notice? He crossbowed Tywin on the privy, and in D&E the dwarf steals the dragon egg via the privy shaft.

[Mithras]

That day Tormund bellowed often and loudly. He roared, he shouted, he slammed his fist against the table so hard that a flagon of water overturned and spilled. A horn of mead was never far from his hand, so the spittle he sprayed when making threats was sweet with honey. He called Jon Snow a craven, a liar, and a turncloak, cursed him for a black-hearted buggering kneeler, a robber, and a carrion crow, accused him of wanting to fuck the free folk up the arse. Twice he flung his drinking horn at Jon’s head, though only after he had emptied it. Tormund was not the sort of man to waste good mead.

For that much Jon was grateful … but he did not believe for a moment that two such hoary old warriors would have hied down from their hills for that alone. Each had brought a tail of fighting men—five for Old Flint, twelve for The Norrey, all clad in ragged skins and studded leathers, fearsome as the face of winter. Some had long beards, some had scars, some had both; all worshiped the old gods of the north, those same gods worshiped by the free folk beyond the Wall. Yet here they sat, drinking to a marriage hallowed by some queer red god from beyond the seas.

Better that than refuse to drink. Neither Flint nor Norrey had turned their cups over to spill their wine upon the floor. That might betoken a certain acceptance. Or perhaps they just hate to waste good southron wine. They will not have tasted much of it up in those stony hills of theirs.

“Your Grace?” The king smiled. “That’s not a style one often hears from the lips of free folk. I’m Mance to most, The Mance to some. Will you take a horn of mead?”

“When I left the Shadow Tower there were five men making noises about how they might be the stuff of kings. Tormund was one, the Magnar another. The other three I slew, when they made it plain they’d sooner fight than follow.”

Tormund frowned down at Jon. “Best go, if it’s the Mance who’s wanting you.”

“The Mance’s pet must want a sword,” the Magnar said, shading his eyes.

“You can kill your enemies,” Jon said bluntly, “but can you rule your friends? If we let your people pass, are you strong enough to make them keep the king’s peace and obey the laws?”

“Whose laws? The laws of Winterfell and King’s Landing?” Mance laughed. “When we want laws we’ll make our own. You can keep your king’s justice too, and your king’s taxes. I’m offering you the horn, not our freedom. We will not kneel to you.”

The mountain clans came quickly for the wedding of the Magnar to Alys and they brought two wetnurses for the son of Mance (I bet one is from Clan Flint and the other is from Clan Norrey). Since they are quarrelsome, they could not decide who should get the honor to supply milk to the son of The Mance. Note that they were deaf to the plea of the NW against Styr and Mance.

I am highly suspicious of an agreement between the mountain clans and Mance. Even the Umbers might be a part of it. Was Mance fool enough to hope that his people can survive at the south of the Wall without the leave of the Northern Lords? I don’t think so. I don’t think he can work his ass off to get his people south of the Wall only to get them killed there.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

I think imagination is requirement for finding foreshadowing, and I think you may have something. Other than that, I think the only thing you are imagining is that the mods will be okay with you posting stuff that isn't supposed to be released until June 17.

I´m not sure what the policy is here about Rogue Prince. Since ive seen things posted, i thought it was not an issue...Should i take it out?

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

No.

Consider the foreshadowing of how Tyrion will come to take Viserion, wiping blood from the piece. Jace flew too low in the battle of the gullet and Vermax fell into the sea, Jace was then killed by crossbow. And we have Victarion screwing around with crossbows and monkeys, and Tyrion rather adept with a cross bow. Viserys II who is Tyrion's strong parallel was also at the battle, but hid his dragon egg. And Doran's about it being easy enough to hide a young dragon in a boats hold (though I don't see how it wouldn't burn the boat down).

TWOIAF reading of Visenya's taking of the Vale chimes in far too conveniently with Robert wanting to see the bad man fly (and the many other examples from TWOIAF reading). Visenya like all VisTargs foreshadows Tyrion as he rides Viserion.

With Visenya the battle was lost by the Targs, then Visenya came and burnt down the Arryn fleet. So I believe the foreshadowing is leading us towards Victarion (assuming the dragon horn does it's thing and it's him with Viserion) screwing up, getting Viserion hurt and then getting crossbowed. Then Tyrion assumes control of Viserion and goes burns the fleet (Water's Lord Tywin flagship is begging Tyrion to burn it, then onward to the Vale to complete the Visenya route). Maybe Tyrion even does the crossbowing himself, perhaps Vic's carelessness with Viserion upsets him, and he always wanted a dragon, in the heat of battle who would notice? He crossbowed Tywin on the privy, and in D&E the dwarf steals the dragon egg via the privy shaft.

i always thought that Tyrion would ride Viserion and Victarion would ride Rhaegal. Since the green dragon is the one still fighting when the iron born reach meereen, therefore closest to the horn