US Politics: we are all liberals, we are all conservatives

[Shryke]

No it's basic common sense, but well done, first Godwin of the day :)

In the labor market the bigger the available pool of workers chasing working class jobs the less by way of compensation employers have to offer. Progressives don't like to talk about the obvious consequence of policies they advocate.

So I assume you then have proof of this lowering of wages, yes? And also proof of progressives being responsible for these "tens of millions" of immigrants?

Labour shortages in states that have recently passed strict anti-immigration policies suggest that what you claim is not happening in many labour markets.

[Shryke]

Also, GOP up to it's usual dickery:

The U.S. House voted Thursday to block the Obama administration’s plan to add staff to the Pardon Attorney’s office, a potential barrier to the Justice Department’s efforts to scale back some lengthy prison sentences handed down in the war on drugs.

The measure, sponsored by Republican North Carolina Rep. George Holding, bans any funding for staff who would conduct the administration’s planned review of applications from inmates seeking early release.

The measure is attached to a new Justice Department funding bill that passed on a party-line vote of 219-189. A Justice Department official told msnbc that Attorney General Eric Holder considers the new funding restriction “absurd.”

The department in April launched a new effort to review more clemency applications and expand the criteria for releasing inmates, particularly those still imprisoned under harsh sentencing laws that have since been reformed.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/house-gopers-vote-down-new-pardon-attorneys

[DanteGabriel]

Yes, wage stagnation is all about dirty brown people flooding the country and not, say, capital's focused, decades-long efforts to crush unions, remove worker protections, peel back regulations, export manufacturing to rock-bottom-cheap labor pools, etc.

Onion wight is one of the plutocratic elite's useful idiots -- railing against the poor and the dark while the richer-than-ever chuckle quietly and count their increased profits and increased share of the profits.

[awesome possum]

Oklahoma governor Mary Fallin, currently in the running to take the title of worst governor in the U.S., just signed into law a Texas-style abortion bill that imposes the admitting privilege requirement on abortion clinics in Oklahoma. Currently, Oklahoma has only 3 active abortion clinics...this bill will reduce that number to one.

But at the same time this admitting privileges craze has swept those states dominated by the Republican Party, all in the name of trying to protect the health of women (yeah fucking right), the curtain is finally being drawn back to reveal the true motives of the radical, far-right Christofacists who support and bankroll these initiatives:

So, as we knew all along, none of this was about women's health. It was all entirely about reducing the number of providers in order to make it easier to bring pressure to bear on the hospitals that allow admitting privileges in an effort to stamp out all access to abortion.

Barry Goldwater's quote seems constantly relevant:

Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.

[lokisnow]

The intent? The reality is real wage growth in the US has been stagnant for decades, and has actually fallen in recent years. Mass immigration benefits the wealthy capital owners end of story. For those obsessed with the three Gs, which seems to be the majority posting on here, demographic changes caused by mass immigration will, in theory, guarantee a permanent majority for progressives. We will see how that works out I guess, in Europe it really hasn't.

Wage growth has stagnated with the end of european reconstruction in the late seventies. Wage growth has stagnated with the slashing of tax rates and capital gains tax rates in the early eighties, and wage growth has stagnated with the crushing of unions in the eighties and systematic attempt by right wingers and capital to fuck over and suppress their workers as much as possible.

Wage growth has been very successfully and deliberately prevented by pursuing right wing extremist economic policies for decades by both democrats and republicans. The solution to making wages grow is not "More"of the same, but by implementing stringent and extremist left wing economic policies for decades. In order to combat the policies that have given us deliberate wage stagnation we have to do the opposite of that wage stagnation.

The first thing to do would be double capital gains rates in order to incentivize corporations to invest in their workers instead of their stock holders, then we should bring back the 75% tax bracket. Then we should return the estate tax exemption to 500,000, with an exemption for primary residence. Then we should double the minimum wage. Then we should index the minimum wage to inflation. Then we should make it easier to unionize across the board. Then we should pass laws mandating 100% paid maternity and paternity leave for all employees. Then we should pass laws mandating paid vacation and paid sick time for all employees.

etc etc.

(also, I'm planning on buying a house in five or six years. Once I do that and lock in my interest rate, I would like to have five years of 10-15% inflation in order to eat away a bunch of the house debt. The boomers got to enjoy the magical wonders of a few years of high inflation, and we deserve the same. ;))

[SkynJay]

In the labor market the bigger the available pool of workers chasing working class jobs the less by way of compensation employers have to offer.

So more workers in no way causes a rise in consumption or spending, they only split an existing pie of wages?

[The onion wight]

Yes, wage stagnation is all about dirty brown people flooding the country and not, say, capital's focused, decades-long efforts to crush unions, remove worker protections, peel back regulations, export manufacturing to rock-bottom-cheap labor pools, etc.

Onion wight is one of the plutocratic elite's useful idiots -- railing against the poor and the dark while the richer-than-ever chuckle quietly and count their increased profits and increased share of the profits.

You're the one dragging race into it, note I haven't. You remind me of the debate in the UK where ordinary people, wondering at the consequences of allowing millions from Eastern Europe to settle in the country are branded racists by the progressive establishment. Yes that's right, white people protesting a policy that allows millions of other white people to immigrate are 'racists'. Absence of coherent argument I guess.

[The onion wight]

Wage growth has stagnated with the end of european reconstruction in the late seventies. Wage growth has stagnated with the slashing of tax rates and capital gains tax rates in the early eighties, and wage growth has stagnated with the crushing of unions in the eighties and systematic attempt by right wingers and capital to fuck over and suppress their workers as much as possible.Wage growth has been very successfully and deliberately prevented by pursuing right wing extremist economic policies for decades by both democrats and republicans. The solution to making wages grow is not "More"of the same, but by implementing stringent and extremist left wing economic policies for decades. In order to combat the policies that have given us deliberate wage stagnation we have to do the opposite of that wage stagnation.The first thing to do would be double capital gains rates in order to incentivize corporations to invest in their workers instead of their stock holders, then we should bring back the 75% tax bracket. Then we should return the estate tax exemption to 500,000, with an exemption for primary residence. Then we should double the minimum wage. Then we should index the minimum wage to inflation. Then we should make it easier to unionize across the board. Then we should pass laws mandating 100% paid maternity and paternity leave for all employees. Then we should pass laws mandating paid vacation and paid sick time for all employees.etc etc.(also, I'm planning on buying a house in five or six years. Once I do that and lock in my interest rate, I would like to have five years of 10-15% inflation in order to eat away a bunch of the house debt. The boomers got to enjoy the magical wonders of a few years of high inflation, and we deserve the same. ;))

Wage growth has stagnated with the end of european reconstruction in the late seventies. Wage growth has stagnated with the slashing of tax rates and capital gains tax rates in the early eighties, and wage growth has stagnated with the crushing of unions in the eighties and systematic attempt by right wingers and capital to fuck over and suppress their workers as much as possible.Wage growth has been very successfully and deliberately prevented by pursuing right wing extremist economic policies for decades by both democrats and republicans. The solution to making wages grow is not "More"of the same, but by implementing stringent and extremist left wing economic policies for decades. In order to combat the policies that have given us deliberate wage stagnation we have to do the opposite of that wage stagnation.The first thing to do would be double capital gains rates in order to incentivize corporations to invest in their workers instead of their stock holders, then we should bring back the 75% tax bracket. Then we should return the estate tax exemption to 500,000, with an exemption for primary residence. Then we should double the minimum wage. Then we should index the minimum wage to inflation. Then we should make it easier to unionize across the board. Then we should pass laws mandating 100% paid maternity and paternity leave for all employees. Then we should pass laws mandating paid vacation and paid sick time for all employees.etc etc.(also, I'm planning on buying a house in five or six years. Once I do that and lock in my interest rate, I would like to have five years of 10-15% inflation in order to eat away a bunch of the house debt. The boomers got to enjoy the magical wonders of a few years of high inflation, and we deserve the same. ;))

Wage growth has in part been severely retarded by massively growing the available workforce. This has severely impacted manual and low skilled workers in particular as the majority of new immigrants compete in that sector for work. In other words what used to be referred to as the working class.

[1918me]

You're the one dragging race into it, note I haven't. You remind me of the debate in the UK where ordinary people, wondering at the consequences of allowing millions from Eastern Europe to settle in the country are branded racists by the progressive establishment. Yes that's right, white people protesting a policy that allows millions of other white people to immigrate are 'racists'. Absence of coherent argument I guess.

Plenty of coherent arguments have been provided on this very page, though.

[TrueMetis]

Plenty of coherent arguments have been provided on this very page, though.

I think coherent argument should be read as "agrees with my ideology" in this case.

[sologdin]

No it's basic common sense, but well done, first Godwin of the day :)

In the labor market the bigger the available pool of workers chasing working class jobs the less by way of compensation employers have to offer. Progressives don't like to talk about the obvious consequence of policies they advocate.

hardly godwin. xenophobic producerism is nasty business, a necessary component of fascist policy.

[Ormond]

You're the one dragging race into it, note I haven't. You remind me of the debate in the UK where ordinary people, wondering at the consequences of allowing millions from Eastern Europe to settle in the country are branded racists by the progressive establishment. Yes that's right, white people protesting a policy that allows millions of other white people to immigrate are 'racists'. Absence of coherent argument I guess.

I don't know enough about the situation in the UK to know how often racist feelings and arguments were used in this instance.

But the idea that people protesting immigration can't be "racist" because you would define both the in-group and the out-group as "White" is just demonstrably false. There are plenty of instances of discrimination in the world where people hold prejudiced views of others based on ideas of genetic inferiority when in a modern American context they would be classified as being of the same "race." Even in American history itself a lot of discrimination against non-English European immigrants in former centuries was explicitly racial. In the early 19th century prejudice against the Irish was very racially charged, with cartoonists depicting them as monkeys, just as they would later depict Blacks as monkeys. The discrimination against southern and eastern Europeans in the first couple of decades of the 20th century in the USA was often explicity expressed with the idea that Italians and Slavs were genetically inferior in their intelligence to northern Europeans. For another example, many Japanese have racially prejudiced views about Koreans even though to Americans Japanese and Koreans would be defined as being of the same "race."

So yes, it is certainly possible for some people in the UK to have objected to immigrants from eastern Europe for racist reasons.

[ants]

In the UK there is a reasonably strong racist element against groups such as Poles, Romanians and eastern Europeans who are seen as coming in via the EU open borders and taking jobs. UKIP has done very well off the back of this group. But funnily enough people in the areas those people live/work, didn't vote UKIP at the last election. It was mostly areas that don't really have any interaction with the immigrants beyond the stories.

[MinDonner]

The affection for UKIP shown by so many conservative Americans is bizarre and hilarious. Especially when it ends up with a Tory government being described as "the progressive establishment" :lmao: Word to the wise, stop bringing the UK into your arguments unless you actually know what you're talking about.

[DanteGabriel]

The affection for UKIP shown by so many conservative Americans is bizarre and hilarious. Especially when it ends up with a Tory government being described as "the progressive establishment" :lmao: Word to the wise, stop bringing the UK into your arguments unless you actually know what you're talking about.

If onion wight restricted himself to topics where he knows what he's talking about he'd have very little to say. He can't even identify a Godwinning.

(Edited "white" to "wight" -- how Freudian of me)

[john]

How dare he claim that the noble anglo saxon race is the same as those barbarous slavs! I would throw my hands up in outrage but I'm hemmed in by all the millions of eastern europeans in here.

[MerenthaClone]

Turns out, concepts like race can vary between cultures, and applying them universally as if everyone accepts the same, US, modern, definition of "white" (and race for that matter) can make you look foolish! Who knew?

[awesome possum]

Ever wonder how to get unmotivated potheads to the polls? Some pot clubs in San Jose may have figured it out

The Silicon Valley Cannabis Coalition will be providing free weed to members who vote in the Tuesday election. The coalition said it will announce a list of clubs participating in the "Weed for Votes" program Monday; members must show proof with an "I Voted" sticker or ballot stub.

"We have a huge opportunity to make a large impact in who runs San Jose," John Lee, director of the coalition, said in a statement. "Although we may not have regulations on the June ballot, insuring the right politicians are elected is even more important."

That's kind of genius.

And in other news, seems like Florida Republicans may have gone a little too gerrymander-crazy in 2010 because there's a lawsuit going on that may end up redistricting the state before the midterms

Several of the state’s Republican-drawn congressional districts – which one political scientist described as the most skewed he has ever studied – have come under attack by voting rights groups that allege the maps unfairly favor GOP candidates.

That coalition, led by the League of Women’s Voters, has argued that Republican legislators and staffers collaborated with political consultants to create the maps, which were approved by Gov. Rick Scott in 2011.

The case is being heard now in Leon County Circuit Court after the League filed a lawsuit alleging that the districts violate Florida’s “Fair Districts” law, which was approved by more than 60 percent of voters in 2010. If the lawsuit succeeds, the borders will have to be redrawn before the midterm elections this fall.

If only that were possible for all the other states they would have lost in congressional races in 2012 and this year.

Turns out, concepts like race can vary between cultures, and applying them universally as if everyone accepts the same, US, modern, definition of "white" (and race for that matter) can make you look foolish! Who knew?

Fictional case in point

[1918me]

Ever wonder how to get unmotivated potheads to the polls? Some pot clubs in San Jose may have figured it out

That's kind of genius.

That's perfect. I wonder what kind of effect it will have on voter turn out there...

In less ingenious news, it looks like North Cal is trying to secede and become its own state. I mean, they've been talking about it for some time now, but I'm sure this time it's serious. I'm sure.

Residents of California's largely rural, agrarian and politically conservative far northern counties long ago got used to feeling ignored in the state Capitol and out of sync with major urban areas.

The idea of forming their own state has been a topic among local secession dreamers for more than a century. Residents in two counties will have a chance to voice that sentiment next week.

Voters in Del Norte and Tehama, with a combined population of about 91,000, will decide June 3 on an advisory measure that asks each county's board of supervisors to join a wider effort to form a 51st state named Jefferson.

Elected officials in Glenn, Modoc, Siskiyou and Yuba counties already voted to join the movement. Supervisors in Butte County will vote June 10, while local bodies in other northern counties are awaiting the June 3 ballot results before deciding what to do.

A similar but unrelated question on the primary ballot in Siskiyou County asks voters to rename that county the Republic of Jefferson.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/voters-california-contemplate-forming-state-23899885

[BloodRider]

The intent? The reality is real wage growth in the US has been stagnant for decades, and has actually fallen in recent years. Mass immigration benefits the wealthy capital owners end of story. For those obsessed with the three Gs, which seems to be the majority posting on here, demographic changes caused by mass immigration will, in theory, guarantee a permanent majority for progressives. We will see how that works out I guess, in Europe it really hasn't.

Good God, you think this is caused by immigration. Had nothing to do with spending cuts, outsourcing, the destruction of organized labor, deregulation of capital and businesses in general, tax cuts on the rich, etc., etc.

Not to mention the fact that blaming this on more sane immigration policy completely misses the fact that business owners get away with employing undocumented labor under criminal circumstances and cut rate wages BECAUSE OF REGULATION ROLLBACKS THAT THESE BUSINESSES LOBBIED FOR AND WERE PASSED BY REPUBLICANS.