taem Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I won't expand on that ATM, I'd like to hear if others have the same question, and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1918me Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Absolutely. I have no idea why it wouldn't. It's pretty clearly textbook high fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY THE TITAN Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Dragons, warging, magic, wights, others!? Yeah I'd say fantasy is the correct genre! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Jake Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Absolutely. I have no idea why it wouldn't. It's pretty clearly textbook high fantasy. This. What other genre would it be in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taem Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 There are fantasy elements sure. But this series just doesn't feel like fantasy to me. Don't get me wrong, I love the series. I haven't really wrapped my head around why this series doesn't feel like fantasy to me, but let me put it this way. Fantasy is a window into a different world. But ASOIAF is more like a mirror being held up to our own. It's a dirty warped mirror, but a mirror nonetheless.I think that's why the tv series is enjoying such success. I don't think it's the dire wolves and dragons. It's the politics and intrigue and warfare and human interactions. Take out the dragons and dire wolves, the series would still be insanely popular -- maybe even more so. Take out the political intrigue and leave the dragons, I think this series doesn't even get made.So, it feels more like historical drama to me. A fake history sure, though so much of this is ripped from the pages of history, which is why it resonates so strongly I think.Perhaps I'll feel differently as the series progresses and the fantasy quotient increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gormenghast Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Perhaps I'll feel differently as the series progresses and the fantasy quotient increases. This is actually the point. Not so much whether ASOIAF is or isn't fantasy, but if perhaps it wasn't better when it dealt with more mundane stuff and is getting weaker the more the fantasy themes are brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 does ASOIAF really belong in the fantasy genre?I won't expand on that ATM, I'd like to hear if others have the same question, and why. Definitely not. No way ASOIAF belongs in the Fantasy Genre. Why? Because it all really happened. GRRM is a documentarian. Wow. I'm not one who normally calls a question dumb, but... -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taem Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 This is actually the point.Not so much whether ASOIAF is or isn't fantasy, but if perhaps it wasn't better when it dealt with more mundane stuff and is getting weaker the more the fantasy themes are brought in.That's a really good way to put it, that the strength of the series lies in the mundane. This is not true of the other fantasy series I've enjoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rababal Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Your argument is akin to watching porn that has a story and arguing that it's not porn because it has a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Boobs. Boobs are what make the show popular. So yeah, it's not fantasy, it's softcore porn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavosSeaworthy Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Dragons, magic, ice zombies. Um, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taem Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 Your argument is akin to watching porn that has a story and arguing that it's not porn because it has a story.To continue the porn analogy, consider the movies Caligula (with John Gielgud and Helen Mirren) or Intimacy (with Kerry Fox and Mark Rylance). Both films feature explicit sex. But are they porn? I don't think Intimacy would ever get shelved in the porn section. Caligula is less clear cut, but it does not, from a consumer perspective, serve the same function that porn does. But from a formalist perspective, given that the basic definition of porn is a film that features explicit sex, then they are porn.But I think most would reject such a formalistic view of genres and look more to the purpose. The point of porn is the explicit sex, and if a story is included, it is intended to eroticize the sex. You see a lot of that in the story driven porn of the 70s that delves into themes like incest and rape. The sex remains the point.But if explicit sex isn't the point, and the story is, and the sex is included to make a point about the theme being explored, as is the case in Intimacy, what then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I guess that means that Donaldson's stuff isn't fantasy either, since Covenant is less about magic rings and dark lords, and more about self-discovery and the nature of power. But really these types of discussions are best left to Goodkind fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 This reminds me of the one interview with GRRM where they asked him about difference scientific explanations for why the seasons are so long and messed up, and his response was "Because Magic Dumb ass!" (not literally, but you get my point). So uh, fantasy can't have stories? That's what I'm getting out of this. Here let me be more in character. Fuck you, lit snob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvilKing Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I think OP is confused for 2 reasons. 1. Setting =/= story. Politics and intrigue and warfare and human interactions are story elements. Put them on a spaceship and you've got a sci-fi. Put them in the Old West and you've got a western. Put them in a town overrun with vampires and werewolves, you've got an urban fantasy. 2. Not being well-read in the fantasy literature. Political intrigue and war are extremely prevalent across the genre of high fantasy, especially in recent years. These factors certainly don't make ASOIAF unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ground_control Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 But really these types of discussions are best left to Goodkind fans. Really? I thought those people discussed things like, "Fire -- bad invention, or worst invention?" and "Which way should I piss when the wind is blowing?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 This reminds me of the one interview with GRRM where they asked him about difference scientific explanations for why the seasons are so long and messed up, and his response was "Because Magic Dumb ass!" (not literally, but you get my point). So uh, fantasy can't have stories? That's what I'm getting out of this. Here let me be more in character. Fuck you, lit snob. wow. some of you people are aaaaaangry. i think it's a valid question in some ways. i'd be even up for a discussion as to why we feel a need to label shit in general. or why we use really broad labels to categorize complex fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kojiro Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 SURPRISE! Fantasy can actually be pretty damn deep when the writer is good at what he does. Let me guess, A Song of Ice and Fire is the first fantasy you've read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowborn Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Ooh, what a question. I don't see why it wouldn't be fantasy. Yeah, it's inspired in the War of the Roses and whatever else, but it's completely and absolutely fantasy. I mean, dragons? The House of the Undying? Prophecies? Why couldn't a fantasy series have political elements inspired in real life? And yeah, OP, you sound like you think fantasy is a lesser genre that consists only of magic and magical creatures. Edit: What would you consider "fantasy"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.