Gendry's Apprentice Fee

[unforgiven]

I apologize if this has been discussed before, but it seemed interesting to me so here goes.

While rereading A Game of Thrones recently I was struck by a passage in the Eddard chapter when he discovers that Gendry, the blacksmith's apprentice, is indeed Robert's bastard. The blacksmith tells Lord Eddard of a mysterious knight who paid Gendry's apprentice fee in double, but he never got a clear look at the knight and never learned his name.

I'm just wondering if anyone had any ideas who this mystery knight might be. I thought, perhaps, it may have been Jon Arryn, but I'm not entirely sure.

[Reek Havoc]

The description given by Mott:

"A lord," the master said reluctantly. "He gave no name, and wore no sigil on his coat. He paid in gold, twice the customary sum, and said he was paying once for the boy, and once for my silence."

"Describe him."

"He was stout, round of shoulder, not so tall as you. Brown beard, but there was a bit of red in it, I'll swear. He wore a rich cloak, that I do remember, heavy purple velvet worked with silver threads, but the hood shadowed his face and I never did see him clear."

Varys, possibly? :dunno: He's a master of disguise, and partial to purple. I don't think it would be Arryn, simply because of the brown beard, but I'm not 100% on that, either.

[Guerillacropolis]

Assuming Jon Arryn is protecting Gendry's secret, it seems that it would most likely be him, but the beard doesn't match his appearence (unless he was in disguise). The man seems to be too short to be Robert himself. Varys would be another possibility, as he seems to know almost everything.

It would also be feasible that Jon Arryn sent an underling through a number of intermediaries so that the person who paid the fee wouldn't know why (only that a rich person had in interest in the boy).

The fact that Gendry was kept in King's Landing makes me suspect that the person feared for Gendry and wanted to make sure he was taken care of. Being a King's bastard would be very dangerous (especially considering everything that happened to the Targaryen children and Arryn's knowledge that Cersei's children are bastards). I imagine Jon Arryn felt like a foster grandfather to them (fostering Robert at the Vale), and perhaps felt a measure of responsibility for Robert's "wild oats".

[unforgiven]

I also thought about Varys, as the description of the mystery knight is similar to the description given of Varys in another chapter around the same place. I just couldn't think of what Varys' motivations could have been, if indeed it was him.

I keep coming back to Arryn because it's well detailed that he was looking in on Robert's bastard children. This may be one of those mysteries that we necer know the answer to.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

It's pretty much confirmed to have been Varys. He's been arranging the provisions for pretty much all of Robert's (known) bastards. There was an etat for that kind of thing, managed by him.

Jon Arryn is impossible, as neither stature nor hair color fits, furthermore Tobho Mott knew him personally.

[Guerillacropolis]

In my re-read, I found near conclusive proof in ACoK that it was Varys.

Tyrion and Varys are discussing Cersei's order to murder Barra, Robert's youngest bastard, at the hands of Allar Deem. Varys mentions, "There was another bastard, a boy, older. I took steps to remove him from harm's way..." (130)

[PurpleSerpents]

In my re-read, I found near conclusive proof in ACoK that it was Varys.

Tyrion and Varys are discussing Cersei's order to murder Barra, Robert's youngest bastard, at the hands of Allar Deem. Varys mentions, "There was another bastard, a boy, older. I took steps to remove him from harm's way..." (130)

Yep. And the description Mott gives reminds me of the way Varys disguised himself on several occasions, such as when he comes to see Ned in the Tower of the Hand and when Arya sees him walking around with Illyrio in the bowels of the Red Keep. Can't quite figure out what his motivation would be though... I would think if he's supporting fAegon, he would want to get rid of any potential rivals for the throne, so he would be happy to let Robert's bastards be killed. But I've never quite understood what Varys is up to, so who knows...

[Brave_Companion]

In my re-read, I found near conclusive proof in ACoK that it was Varys.

Tyrion and Varys are discussing Cersei's order to murder Barra, Robert's youngest bastard, at the hands of Allar Deem. Varys mentions, "There was another bastard, a boy, older. I took steps to remove him from harm's way..." (130)

Organising an apprenticeship with a high profile Armorer is not removing Gendry from harms way.

Having Mott kick him out and then Gendry join the Nights Watch is what this refers to.

[atiggerx33]

Organising an apprenticeship with a high profile Armorer is not removing Gendry from harms way.

Having Mott kick him out and then Gendry join the Nights Watch is what this refers to.

But it means he knows about Gendry, so therefore it would be entirely plausible given the similarity in stature, and his ability to disguise himself, that Varys was the one who paid the apprenticeship.

For the record I think he wanted to keep Gendry safe and in King's Landing because: 1.) It supported Stannis' claim, if he was made king the people would rise against if a Targ ever came back to Westeros, Stannis is little loved. 2.) Gendry proves the princes and princess are not Robert's children, the common people loved Robert, I doubt they would rise against his children. If they were given proof that they were not Robert's children but instead "abominations born of incest", the commons would be outraged, not just with them as their rulers, but with all Lannisters. The great lords would all take a different side too if they believed it. You can't stand behind King Inbred, unless that inbred is a Targaryen.

I will never understand that, the people would freak if they knew Tommen was an incest baby, but Rhaegar, that was fine. I understand in this scenario it makes him not the king's son, a bastard, and an incestuous birth, but if Robert had married his (totally nonexistent but made up for this argument) sister, and had a son people would have lost their minds.

[Guerillacropolis]

It's also important to remember that Rhaegar was not a bastard. The incest is damnable in the eyes of the septons, since Lannisters are not Targaryens, but the more important point is that Joffrey and Tommen are bastards and cannot inherit titles, including King of the Andals, the Rhoyner and the First Men.

The only important bastard who will inherit his father's realm in this story is Ramsay Bolton, formerly Snow, but that's only because Roose legitimized him. Tommen is still a bastard and his "father" a usurper--the incest is a non-issue in terms of succession (if not in the eyes of the smallfolk).

We'll never actually know if Varys paid for the fee himself, but I agree with atiggerx33. Having Gendry working as an armorer in the city keeps him close in case Varys ever needs to prove what one of Robert's children looks like, but insulated enough that one would have to know his true identity to know he is a king's bastard. Otherwise, he is just Gendry the Bull, a whoreson.

[Brave_Companion]

But it means he knows about Gendry, so therefore it would be entirely plausible given the similarity in stature, and his ability to disguise himself, that Varys was the one who paid the apprenticeship.

For the record I think he wanted to keep Gendry safe and in King's Landing because: 1.) It supported Stannis' claim, if he was made king the people would rise against if a Targ ever came back to Westeros, Stannis is little loved. 2.) Gendry proves the princes and princess are not Robert's children, the common people loved Robert, I doubt they would rise against his children. If they were given proof that they were not Robert's children but instead "abominations born of incest", the commons would be outraged, not just with them as their rulers, but with all Lannisters. The great lords would all take a different side too if they believed it. You can't stand behind King Inbred, unless that inbred is a Targaryen.

I will never understand that, the people would freak if they knew Tommen was an incest baby, but Rhaegar, that was fine. I understand in this scenario it makes him not the king's son, a bastard, and an incestuous birth, but if Robert had married his (totally nonexistent but made up for this argument) sister, and had a son people would have lost their minds.

I didn't say it's not plausible, I said the Varys quote is not proof.

Gendry was only in danger when Cersei started having bastards murdered, at which point Mott got rid of him and he some how joined the NW.

At the time his apprenticeship was organized he was not in danger.

[Faceless Man Friday]

The doors of Mott's shop have an ebony and weirwood carving. Where else have we seen ebony and weirwood? There are two stone knights armored in red in the shape of a griffin and a unicorn guard the door. Mott knows how to re-forge Valyrian Steel.

I do not think it is a co-incidence that Gendry was placed with Mott and I have always thought that it was Varys who paid his fee and made the arrangements to join the Night's Watch for the reasons others have stated. The possible connection between Mott and Varys is one of the dots some have used to argue a larger conspiracy.

I find the griffin and unicorn intriguing and wonder if it means anything. A purple unicorn is the sigil of House Brax, Lannister bannermen and the griffin is the sigil of the Conningtons. I do not see any connection, does anyone else?

[John Suburbs]

It's also important to remember that Rhaegar was not a bastard. The incest is damnable in the eyes of the septons, since Lannisters are not Targaryens, but the more important point is that Joffrey and Tommen are bastards and cannot inherit titles, including King of the Andals, the Rhoyner and the First Men.

The only important bastard who will inherit his father's realm in this story is Ramsay Bolton, formerly Snow, but that's only because Roose legitimized him. Tommen is still a bastard and his "father" a usurper--the incest is a non-issue in terms of succession (if not in the eyes of the smallfolk).

We'll never actually know if Varys paid for the fee himself, but I agree with atiggerx33. Having Gendry working as an armorer in the city keeps him close in case Varys ever needs to prove what one of Robert's children looks like, but insulated enough that one would have to know his true identity to know he is a king's bastard. Otherwise, he is just Gendry the Bull, a whoreson.

I think a bastard can inherit a crown, but it would have to be the king's bastard. The reason J, M and T would not inherit the IT if the truth got out is because they are not Robert's children.

[e22ddie46]

Yeah, and ironically Stannis would actually probably allow Robert's legitmized bastard to inherit the crown since technically it would be legal and it seems to be what he is all about. But yeah, it always confused me why Cersei and Tywin would allow them to put the Lannister sigil on Joff's banner since there was open rebellion about his family line.

Although about Varys, it does seem likely that he would have been involved. If the Starks had sued for peace with Eddard's release, they might have had peace. But by keeping Robert's sons around yet unseen, he would have had ammunition for Stannis to bring to the major houses helping add strife.

Edit: Rereading cok at the moment and later Varys and Tyrion are talking again (after Stannis sends the letter about Cersei/Jamie) and Varys says robert had 8 bastards that he knew of and wanted to keep them close. And at the time Varys was dressed the way that the man was described in aGoT, pretty certain it was him

[Dany Girl]

I also thought about Varys, as the description of the mystery knight is similar to the description given of Varys in another chapter around the same place. I just couldn't think of what Varys' motivations could have been, if indeed it was him.

If Varys knows that Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella are in fact bastards (and that's a pretty safe bet I'd think) then he might have been keeping Robert's bastards close at hand so that once Aegon arrives he can use them to show the bastards for what they are and weaken the Lannister's power base. It's just one step of many in order to get the realm behind Aegon in the end. Or at least that's my theory.

[e22ddie46]

If Varys knows that Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella are in fact bastards (and that's a pretty safe bet I'd think) then he might have been keeping Robert's bastards close at hand so that once Aegon arrives he can use them to show the bastards for what they are and weaken the Lannister's power base.

In Tyrion's second or third chapter in aCoK (page 241 in the paperback)

He accuses my brother and sister of incest. I wonder how he came by that suspicion. Perhaps he read in a book and looked at a bastard's hair, as Ned Stark did, and Jon Arryn before him. Or perhaps someone whispered in his ear. ....tyrion accusing varys of telling stannis. Varys denies

Varys goes on to point out that...he knew of eight bastards (all with black hair) and that even if Cersei and Jamie could betray a king, they couldn't hide from little birds in the chimney and walls. Between this and the quote by Stannis that Eddard (?) Storm at Dragonstone was one bastard that Robert had to acknowledge since his mother was important, I believe that Robert truly didn't know/care about any of his bastards. It would make sense, given this, to think that it very well was Varys keeping his secrets close.

[Faceless Man Friday]

In Tyrion's second or third chapter in aCoK (page 241 in the paperback)

He accuses my brother and sister of incest. I wonder how he came by that suspicion. Perhaps he read in a book and looked at a bastard's hair, as Ned Stark did, and Jon Arryn before him. Or perhaps someone whispered in his ear. ....tyrion accusing varys of telling stannis. Varys denies

Varys goes on to point out that...he knew of eight bastards (all with black hair) and that even if Cersei and Jamie could betray a king, they couldn't hide from little birds in the chimney and walls. Between this and the quote by Stannis that Eddard (?) Storm at Dragonstone was one bastard that Robert had to acknowledge since his mother was important, I believe that Robert truly didn't know/care about any of his bastards. It would make sense, given this, to think that it very well was Varys keeping his secrets close.

He knows them better than any man alive. I doubt they could have kept their secret from him.