Pod The Impaler Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 No, we do not know what the FM really want, but they do not strike me as the sort of people who let transgression slide. I do not think she will be treated so lightly. The FM want to control her, to have her abandon her own identity and agenda. Since her last one, Arya has learned more about them, secrets that take her deeper into their ranks, which they also cannot let her go around freelancing with. As such, I think she is in some danger. If / how she gets out of this, I will be interested to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund GiantsMANE Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Reading the chapter, it doesn't come across that she's operating "on the fly". Prior to approaching Raff she says a prayer to the many faced god...not the 7 or the old gods (arya starks gods) but the many faced god that the FM worship....she also knows when to leave the mummer's show, how much time she'll need to do the deed and how much time it will take her to get back in time for her "rape". It's interesting that right after she kills Raff, she reminisces about how she'll miss being Mercy and would miss the folks at The Gate. You'd think that she's thinking about the jig being up, and having to flee after blowing Mercy's cover....except she doesn't just flee and abandon being Mercy. She's not finished being Mercy until her "rape" until the play is over. She sees her mission all the way through. Raff may not have been a specific target by name...more so just the unlucky guard who tried to get some strange and ended up getting killed. She's also fully aware of the ramifications of her act. She immediately thinks about the trouble she may have caused for the sealord and/or the envoy from westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im where whores go Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I think Arya knows too much about the FM now to leave. They cut her face off and gave her a new one and there was talk of drinking from the "cold cup" which might have been the cup she drank from right before she got her face. Also the last time she says she is "no one" nobody calls her a liar. As for her needing to go back to Westeros I agree, but I think she will have an apprenticeship with another FM, probably Jaqen who will take her back and she can cross off the last names on her list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edd tollett:( Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I am not 100% sure what will happen to her, but I know the last time she disobeyed she got punished, but right after she got promoted. Plus we see Jaqen kill a lot of people. Some people believe he is rouge, but why would he send Arya to the FM if he was. I personally think that the kindly man lying to her, and that they don't care who you kill, as long as you get the job done. However she is too inexperienced to read his lies like she practiced with waif.I don't think she was punished at all. I think the KM was upset with her but if anything she was rewarde. ( like you said promoted) like I said earlier this was always part of her training but she was put on the fast track after she killed daerion.we don't know the full senerio with mercy and she could be in big trouble but not necessarily we just don't know enough yet. Either way I think she be on the move soon. Hopefully as a rogue agent bent on revenge but that seems to straight forward for George so we'll just have to wait and see. I can't wait!# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dire Dragon Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Reading the chapter, it doesn't come across that she's operating "on the fly". Prior to approaching Raff she says a prayer to the many faced god...not the 7 or the old gods (arya starks gods) but the many faced god that the FM worship....she also knows when to leave the mummer's show, how much time she'll need to do the deed and how much time it will take her to get back in time for her "rape". It's interesting that right after she kills Raff, she reminisces about how she'll miss being Mercy and would miss the folks at The Gate. You'd think that she's thinking about the jig being up, and having to flee after blowing Mercy's cover....except she doesn't just flee and abandon being Mercy. She's not finished being Mercy until her "rape" until the play is over. She sees her mission all the way through. Raff may not have been a specific target by name...more so just the unlucky guard who tried to get some strange and ended up getting killed. She's also fully aware of the ramifications of her act. She immediately thinks about the trouble she may have caused for the sealord and/or the envoy from westeros.This is how it read to me as well. It reads like she was given a mission to kill one of the Westeros guards. She is already checking out the guards when she she sees Raff and realises "The Gods have given her a gift". That is consistent with her already being tasked with killing a guard and then she is thrilled when it is Raff. I think he just fit into a pre-existing plan.I also suspect it is a mission as she makes the murder so messy. She makes three "errors". She is the last person seen with Raff. She kills him in her own room and she leaves blood everywhere. Killing someone in such a bloody fashion in her own room is not very professional so I suspect there is a reason that her room needs to be bathed in blood with Mercy as prime suspect ( or possibly Raff is supposed to be the prime suspect in the death of "Mercy".) Finally, she seems completely unconcerned about the ramifications of her actions. If she was doing this entirely on the spur of the moment and breaking with the house of White and Black, there would be some mental weighing going on. Raff wouldn't be a "gift". He'd be a quandry-should she kill him or continue training. There is no indecision. So either she is still working for the House of Black and White (which is my guess) or she has already gone completely rogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund GiantsMANE Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 This is how it read to me as well. It reads like she was given a mission to kill one of the Westeros guards. She is already checking out the guards when she she sees Raff and realises "The Gods have given her a gift". That is consistent with her already being tasked with killing a guard and then she is thrilled when it is Raff. I think he just fit into a pre-existing plan.I also suspect it is a mission as she makes the murder so messy. She makes three "errors". She is the last person seen with Raff. She kills him in her own room and she leaves blood everywhere. Killing someone in such a bloody fashion in her own room is not very professional so I suspect there is a reason that her room needs to be bathed in blood with Mercy as prime suspect ( or possibly Raff is supposed to be the prime suspect in the death of "Mercy".) Finally, she seems completely unconcerned about the ramifications of her actions. If she was doing this entirely on the spur of the moment and breaking with the house of White and Black, there would be some mental weighing going on. Raff wouldn't be a "gift". He'd be a quandry-should she kill him or continue training. There is no indecision. So either she is still working for the House of Black and White (which is my guess) or she has already gone completely rogueThat last part especially. If her blindness is to be taken as a punishment (rather than a "level up") then she'd definitely have to consider what would be done to her if she disobeyed again.I don't think she's silly enough to think that she can just do what she wants and walk away. Also, she's clearly on a job even if Raff isn't the mark. She's the best luckiest FM next to Jaquen that Raff just falls into her lap and she has just enough time to run her little game and get back to the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Stags Short of a Dragon Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 The KM and, presumably, any other FM in Bravos know AS/no one. If the FM do not kill a person that they know, how can they kill AS/no one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuem Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 so would the FM be super pissed of at Jaq for the slaughter at Harra? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerg Sknab Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 That last part especially. If her blindness is to be taken as a punishment (rather than a "level up") then she'd definitely have to consider what would be done to her if she disobeyed again.I don't think she's silly enough to think that she can just do what she wants and walk away. Also, she's clearly on a job even if Raff isn't the mark. She's the best luckiest FM next to Jaquen that Raff just falls into her lap and she has just enough time to run her little game and get back to the gate. No Mercy is not there for a target she is there for her "apprenticeship" as a mummer...as specificed in The Ugly Little Girl Chapter... The killing of Raff was on her on voliation and nothing to do with the Church of Many Gods unless there happens to a bridge chapter between TULG and Mercy... Considering the Kindly Man was specific that being with Izembaro was an apprenticeship it would be highly unlikely Mercy would be given a target so closely associated... Oh, and another point Mercy made it personal....there was no need to use Needle...the was no need for Mercy to hear Raff say his line...an FM kill is supposedly quick and clean Raff's was anything but.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund GiantsMANE Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 were Jaquen's killins at Harrenhal quick and clean? She already has killed (in a fashion similar to the alchemist and Pate) during "training"....they are training her to kill. She's been impersonating people since before she put on her first face, the fact that she's doing her mummer's apprenticeship at The Gate and performing for the Westrosi envoy is more than a coincidence, especially given that FM learn secrets and report back to the kindly man daily. If it's not a job then she's just super lucky....which would make sense given how much good fortune Arya's been shown throughout the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerg Sknab Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 were Jaquen's killins at Harrenhal quick and clean? She already has killed (in a fashion similar to the alchemist and Pate) during "training"....they are training her to kill. She's been impersonating people since before she put on her first face, the fact that she's doing her mummer's apprenticeship at The Gate and performing for the Westrosi envoy is more than a coincidence, especially given that FM learn secrets and report back to the kindly man daily. If it's not a job then she's just super lucky....which would make sense given how much good fortune Arya's been shown throughout the series. Jaquen's killings yes for the most part were clean...Chiswyck hanged if I remember correctly...Weas's throat taken out by his bitch (Jaquen has clean hands)...there really was no third however there was Weasel Soup and the deaths were more or less clean scalded by soup and the rest were Brave Companions at their bloodiest in which Jaquen didn't seem to take part as a matter of fact he did an apearence change left an iron coin and then disappeared...I mentioned something on another thread, I believe standard FM rules are suspended while agents are in Westeros (re communication difficulties)....Why otherwise would the Alchemist do in Pate...Oh and as for the Alchemist using TULG method I would think it is a tried and true method used by all FM's to complete assignments long before Arya came up with her notion... Read the Ugly Little Girl again..... Where do you come up Mercy reports to the Kindly Man everyday when in fact she has her own room close to Izembaro and was "sent to Izembaro for training" No Mercy is not super lucky in this instance, she is up a creek without the proverbial paddle, she killed again without authorization, she has set back her training and what is worse I believe she used Arya's preferred weapon (Needle) for the coup d' gras by doing so she has thrown all her training as an acolyte to this point out the window As I said previously your posulation can work we just need a bridge chapter for an outline to get to the "Mercy" chapter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund GiantsMANE Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 JH may have clean hands, but he left bodies everywhere,whereas Arya made sure to dispose of the body. She also is headed back to finish her scene so there aren't many folks that would suspect her for just having killing an armed westrosi guardsmen in what 5-10 minutes.I don't think she uses needle, she uses a "blade" that is described as long and thin, but she slips it from up her sleeve to slice his throat. i dunno if she's doing all that she does (sewing, seducing,etc) with a sword stuck up her sleeve the whole timeWhile I didn't say that she reports back to the KM as a fact, it was part of her training to tell him 3 new things every day, and you all keep saying she's in training.I see it more of a training on the job since we've seen her kill before while training.I dunno how she's up any creek without the paddle in this instance. In fact she feels the gods have given her a gift. She plans it out and times it perfectly.Why does she make sure to have the other blade;not just Mercy's fruit knife, if she didn't plan to kill?I'm not sure what order the chapters will go in or even if this is her first,second etc POV but I'd imagine there would be a bridge chapter, but now I'm more interested in the followup chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenor Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I would go with Gerb Snab in this.It's clear there wasn't any sort of assignment on behalf of the FM.Compare this killing to the one she made as the Ugly Girl and you'll see it was completely amateurish.She was seeing by another Lannister guard,she showed Raff to her fellow mummer and who knows how many unnamed witnesses saw those two together as she brought him to her apartment.The case of JH is a complete mystery and is obvious that he has infiltrated the Maesters for some reason other than just murder someone( i guess we'll know in the next books what's he's doing there). Therefore we can't use him as an example concerning the ways of the FM especially if it's proven that he's on a mission and has "a license to kill".What is beyond doubt is the fact that FM don't kill people that they personally know.And it's not even some secret but a common knowledge.The crew of the ship that brought Arya to Braavos did their utmost that she remembers their names.And the phrase "i know this man" was heard repeatedly in an official "business" meeting at the guild.The KM most probably is hiding things and lies about some matters to Arya since she's still just an apprentice but that doesn't mean that everything we have read about the FM are false information.Still though we can't tell for sure what GRRM has in mind and as usual a completely unexpected turn of events may be at hand.Besides if it was obvious or easy to guess what will happen after that killing i don't think he would have published this chapter.Also mind these quotes from this chapter:"When Mercy glanced at the faces beneath the gilded, lion-crested helm, her belly gave a quiver.""Give it up or go ahead. She could not give it up. She wanted him so bad."These lines describe reactions and thoughts of Arya and definitely not "no-one". Should she was an FM on a mission she would have felt nothing at all cause "no-one" doesn't want so bad to kill someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceless Man Friday Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 The Blinding of Arya was not punishment but part of her training. Her training was accelerated after the killing. People are placing too much stock in what the Kindly Man says and forgetting that the Kindly Man is a liar. All Faceless Men are liars. You have to be a very good liar to be a Faceless Man. I would put much more stock in what they do than what they say. So I do not think she is in any danger because she knew Raff. I also think it was clearly revealed at the end of the chapter that she was on a Faceless Man mission to kill one of the envoy's party to create trouble, the gods just answered her prayer by sending her someone she really wanted to kill. I do agree, however with those who say she will not be with the FM much longer but not for the reason that she will be banished for killing someone. I believe she will leave because it was never part of the plan to have her become a full fledged FM. I never thought it was coincidence that brought her to the House of Black and White and still believe the FM are part of a conspiracy, the extent of which and to what end I do not know. Yet I think her story so far fits that plan and will continue to do so even when she returns to Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivianne Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 . The point of the chapter is that Arya can't shake off who who is: Arya Stark. She needs to go back to Westeros and she was never going to devote her life to the FM. The plot of the books should make that obvious. It seems like her killing Raff might be the thing that gets her our of the FM and on a boat back home. . it seemed obvious to me that the chapter started out with her thinking of herself as Mercy, until after Raff died she was all of a sudden Arya Also mind these quotes from this chapter: "When Mercy glanced at the faces beneath the gilded, lion-crested helm, her belly gave a quiver." "Give it up or go ahead. She could not give it up. She wanted him so bad." These lines describe reactions and thoughts of Arya and definitely not "no-one". Should she was an FM on a mission she would have felt nothing at all cause "no-one" doesn't want so bad to kill someone. Give it up/ stay in character as Mercy Go Ahead/ morph back into Arya I do agree, however with those who say she will not be with the FM much longer but not for the reason that she will be banished for killing someone. I believe she will leave because it was never part of the plan to have her become a full fledged FM. I never thought it was coincidence that brought her to the House of Black and White and still believe the FM are part of a conspiracy, the extent of which and to what end I do not know. Yet I think her story so far fits that plan and will continue to do so even when she returns to Westeros. she has always been a bad ass the training just honed her skills....I want to see her get Needle and head back to find Nymeria, then Kick some westerosi ASS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dire Dragon Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Daenor, on 06 Jun 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:Give it up/ stay in character as Mercy Go Ahead/ morph back into Arya This can be read as being part of a mission from the house of Black and White.I read this as "Give it up": Give up her mission to kill one of the guards-as she should as the FM are forbidden from killing anyone they know."Go Ahead" :Complete the mission to kill one of the guards.That said, even if she is on a mission from the house of Black and White to kill a guard (or frame a guard for Mercy's murder) as I believe, she has still violated her training by making this murder personal (and it was very personal at the end). But as long as the House of Black and White does not find out that she knew the man and they tasked her with killing a guard she can get away with her secret vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenor Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 That said, even if she is on a mission from the house of Black and White to kill a guard (or frame a guard for Mercy's murder) as I believe, she has still violated her training by making this murder personal (and it was very personal at the end). But as long as the House of Black and White does not find out that she knew the man and they tasked her with killing a guard she can get away with her secret vengeance. Well if that's the case she should have a difficult time to prove nothing personal was involved and it was a coincidence that the guard she killed was a Lannister.Also i believe that if the FM wanted to kill someone from the Westerosi envoy they would have probably sent someone who isn't from Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerl Targaryen Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I think Mercy was on a mission for the Faceless Men: frame Harys Swift for murder. I'm not entirely sure of the why behind that mission but he's a relatively high profile target. She just got extremely lucky and used Raff as a means to achieve that goal. Her kill was personal but if it accomplishes her end goal and she becomes Mercy again, then I don't see the Kindly Man having a problem with it. He might say there's a problem but as others have said, he's a liar. His actions are far more important than what he says. He rewarded Arya for her previous unsanctioned kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund GiantsMANE Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I think Mercy was on a mission for the Faceless Men: frame Harys Swift for murder. I'm not entirely sure of the why behind that mission but he's a relatively high profile target. She just got extremely lucky and used Raff as a means to achieve that goal. Her kill was personal but if it accomplishes her end goal and she becomes Mercy again, then I don't see the Kindly Man having a problem with it. He might say there's a problem but as others have said, he's a liar. His actions are far more important than what he says. He rewarded Arya for her previous unsanctioned kill. ^Alladat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The onion wight Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 The Blinding of Arya was not punishment but part of her training. Her training was accelerated after the killing. People are placing too much stock in what the Kindly Man says and forgetting that the Kindly Man is a liar. All Faceless Men are liars. You have to be a very good liar to be a Faceless Man. I would put much more stock in what they do than what they say. So I do not think she is in any danger because she knew Raff. I also think it was clearly revealed at the end of the chapter that she was on a Faceless Man mission to kill one of the envoy's party to create trouble, the gods just answered her prayer by sending her someone she really wanted to kill. I do agree, however with those who say she will not be with the FM much longer but not for the reason that she will be banished for killing someone. I believe she will leave because it was never part of the plan to have her become a full fledged FM. I never thought it was coincidence that brought her to the House of Black and White and still believe the FM are part of a conspiracy, the extent of which and to what end I do not know. Yet I think her story so far fits that plan and will continue to do so even when she returns to Westeros.Totally agree with this. The idea that Jaqan accidentally came across Arya and sent her off to the temple of black and white because he owed her one? There was nothing accidental about their meeting, he arranged for it to be so. The FM have decided to take her in hand because they can use her. The FM have also put her in a place where they knew Raff the Sweetling would be and they knew exactly how she'd respond. JD has given a full account of their time together and they know all about her list. If anyone thinks Arya/Mercy just happened across Raff I have a bridge I'd like to sell to you. So what are the FM up to and why did they want Arya to kill Raff? That's the real question to my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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