(SPOILERS) Littlefinger's Army

[Lord_Tyrell]

So after that last episode, does anyone doubt that he gets it and unites the Vale around Sansa? The show pretty much jumped the books finally, and now the Vale Lords are actively planning on betraying the Lannisters and using Sansa as their main piece. No chance LF goes out the Moon Door at the start of the next book as many are predicting.

And once he gets this army, then what? Personally, I think he goes to the Twins and kills all the Freys, and then moves North to Winterfell.

What are your thoughts?

[Boarsbane]

The Vale won't unite around Sansa, it will unite around Lord Robert or Harry the Heir. It will be their army. If everything goes as planned, I don't think it will, the first thing to do would to deal with the Lannister army occupying the Riverlands. The Twins is too hard to take and if you sit out there and wait the Lannisters can just take you from behind, plus it gives the Tyrells time to react and possibly send aid. Use the Vale's massively superior numbers to weed out the Lannisters and bring in the riverlords who fought for Robb, gets you a few easy victories and your commanders build confidence. When Walder sees the noose tightening he will try to make a deal or one of his kin will kill him and try to make a deal.

[DavosSeaworthy]

Lf has no army and will never have an army, he will likely end up dead at some point in the next two books.

[Lord_Tyrell]

The Vale won't unite around Sansa, it will unite around Lord Robert or Harry the Heir. It will be their army. If everything goes as planned, I don't think it will, the first thing to do would to deal with the Lannister army occupying the Riverlands. The Twins is too hard to take and if you sit out there and wait the Lannisters can just take you from behind, plus it gives the Tyrells time to react and possibly send aid. Use the Vale's massively superior numbers to weed out the Lannisters and bring in the riverlords who fought for Robb, gets you a few easy victories and your commanders build confidence. When Walder sees the noose tightening he will try to make a deal or one of his kin will kill him and try to make a deal.

It seems as if they're uniting around Sansa right now, with Littlefinger being the orchestrator of the whole thing, while the Vale Lords try to keep their hands as clean as possible of it.

And the Twins isn't as hard to take as you'd imagine. Keep in mind that the Twins are about to transfer hostages that the Brotherhood knows are about to be transferred, so they'll intercept them, making all the Riverland Lords rebel against them. Then Riverrun will be taken by the Brotherhood since they've got an agent there as well, so a large portion of the Freys will be wiped out by them. Cersei isn't going to help them out with Euron and Aegon in the South, so he'll have to appease to his liege lord to defend his lands and the Twins. Littlefinger will humbly oblige.

He brings the Vale's army to the Twins, eats their bread, and the army goes over the bridge in order to protect both sides. And then the massacre begins. Every single person in the Twins (save for some remaining hostages) will be killed in response to the Red Wedding. Black Walder and some of the Freys will attempt to flee South, but when they hit the woods, Nymeria and her murderous pack will kill them. Sansa (who is there) will think it was too brutal, but Littlefinger would compliment her saying she has a soft heart, and she'll figure out that Littlefinger had Joffrey kill Ned.

[Lord_Tyrell]

Lf has no army and will never have an army, he will likely end up dead at some point in the next two books.

This last episode says otherwise about the army, and there's been an incredible amount of foreshadowing that he's getting that army.

Yes he will die in the books, but it will be after he thinks he has it won and has Winterfell in his grasp, only to find out that Bran and Rickon are still alive, Jon Snow has risen the dead and been legitimized as a Stark and a Targaryen King, and that the Others have broken through the Wall and are heading his way to kill them all. That would be so much more satisfying than throwing him out the Moon Door as so many fans seem to wish. That would be the most anticlimatic end ever, while Littlefinger being killed at his absolute peak would be the way to do it.

[Boarsbane]

It seems as if they're uniting around Sansa right now, with Littlefinger being the orchestrator of the whole thing, while the Vale Lords try to keep their hands as clean as possible of it.

And the Twins isn't as hard to take as you'd imagine. Keep in mind that the Twins are about to transfer hostages that the Brotherhood knows are about to be transferred, so they'll intercept them, making all the Riverland Lords rebel against them. Then Riverrun will be taken by the Brotherhood since they've got an agent there as well, so a large portion of the Freys will be wiped out by them. Cersei isn't going to help them out with Euron and Aegon in the South, so he'll have to appease to his liege lord to defend his lands and the Twins. Littlefinger will humbly oblige.

He brings the Vale's army to the Twins, eats their bread, and the army goes over the bridge in order to protect both sides. And then the massacre begins. Every single person in the Twins (save for some remaining hostages) will be killed in response to the Red Wedding. Black Walder and some of the Freys will attempt to flee South, but when they hit the woods, Nymeria and her murderous pack will kill them. Sansa (who is there) will think it was too brutal, but Littlefinger would compliment her saying she has a soft heart, and she'll figure out that Littlefinger had Joffrey kill Ned.

Why would they unite around Sansa? She isn't from the Vale and she isn't an Arryn. If they march on the Riverlands it will be because Robert or Harry give the order.

It is harder to take than you seem to think, the commander would have to divide his army in half to besiege both ends and cut them off from each other. And since you ignored Daven and his host they now only have to worry about taking on half your forces. The Vale lords probably won't commit genocide on the Freys like you are suggesting, they weren't involved in the Red Wedding so they have no reason to be so spiteful and pissed like the Starks and their fans. You are right they aren't likely to get any help, which is why it would make sense to take out the Lannister army before attacking the Twins.

[Lord_Tyrell]

Why would they unite around Sansa? She isn't from the Vale and she isn't an Arryn. If they march on the Riverlands it will be because Robert or Harry give the order.

It is harder to take than you seem to think, the commander would have to divide his army in half to besiege both ends and cut them off from each other. And since you ignored Daven and his host they now only have to worry about taking on half your forces. The Vale lords probably won't commit genocide on the Freys like you are suggesting, they weren't involved in the Red Wedding so they have no reason to be so spiteful and pissed like the Starks and their fans. You are right they aren't likely to get any help, which is why it would make sense to take out the Lannister army before attacking the Twins.

In name, yes it will be because Robert or Harry give the order. But why would Robert or Harry give the order? In order to appease their wife, Sansa, or under the guidance of Littlefinger that this is the proper move. If you boil it all down, it will still boil down to Sansa and Littlefinger.

And Daven will be busy with Riverrun again, and if not that, it will be with Euron or Aegon to the South. He's not going to be rushing over to the Twins to help out a family that he and everyone else in the realm despises. Plus I think if anything, Cersei will command the Freys and Littlefinger to take back the North from Stannis, which gives him another opportunity to visit the Twins and massacre them.

And I bet the Vale Lords would have a problem with massacring the Twins. You're forgetting that basically all of them were wanting to join Robb, and the only reason they didn't is that Littlefinger told Lysa not to and keep them at the Vale, and it's so he has an untapped army by the time he gets control of the Vale. They'd look at it as karma and the fact that they were doing the God's work with the cursed Freys.

But why take out the Lannister army? They're doing fine doing that to themselves. Massacring the Twins would not make a dent in the Vale's army, and then marching North to Winterfell would make him have the most powerful army in Westeros while Aegon, Euron, and Cersei tire their's out.

[Boarsbane]

In name, yes it will be because Robert or Harry give the order. But why would Robert or Harry give the order? In order to appease their wife, Sansa, or under the guidance of Littlefinger that this is the proper move. If you boil it all down, it will still boil down to Sansa and Littlefinger.

And Daven will be busy with Riverrun again, and if not that, it will be with Euron or Aegon to the South. He's not going to be rushing over to the Twins to help out a family that he and everyone else in the realm despises. Plus I think if anything, Cersei will command the Freys and Littlefinger to take back the North from Stannis, which gives him another opportunity to visit the Twins and massacre them.

And I bet the Vale Lords would have a problem with massacring the Twins. You're forgetting that basically all of them were wanting to join Robb, and the only reason they didn't is that Littlefinger told Lysa not to and keep them at the Vale, and it's so he has an untapped army by the time he gets control of the Vale. They'd look at it as karma and the fact that they were doing the God's work with the cursed Freys.

But why take out the Lannister army? They're doing fine doing that to themselves. Massacring the Twins would not make a dent in the Vale's army, and then marching North to Winterfell would make him have the most powerful army in Westeros while Aegon, Euron, and Cersei tire their's out.

To you, to the lords and soldiers it is their liege lord giving them an order.

Busy doing what? They already took Riverrun and it is currently occupied. Every single stronghold has fallen, there is nothing that could tie Daven up from aiding the Freys. He may not like the Freys but he is supposed to marry one and they are allies. And didn't Cersei give the Lords Declarant her support, more or less, when the wanted to remove Baelish?

"Basically all of them"? How do you figure this? Yohn Royce did but he doesn't account for basically all of them. Their were no Valemen slain at the Red Wedding, they just don't have the same animosity towards the Freys as the North would. Wiping out an entire house for a crime against someone else seems a bit harsh for a region that prides itself in its honor.

It would take a dent out of it if they decided to storm it instead of sieging. The Lannister army is small enough to not be much a threat in battle but if you spilt up your forces and start a siege at the Twins it becomes a lot more dangerous.

[Lord James Arryn]

Keep in mind that Littlefinger is actually the current ruler of the Riverlands (albeit mostly in name). I think that if Sansa marries Harry the Heir, then the Vale and the North will declare for Sansa.

The Riverlords, given the choice between the Lannisters, the Freys, and Petyr will most likely choose Petyr because Sansa is Catelyn's daughter. With the Tyrells busy and Dorne off doing its own thing, they may be able to marshall an army and march on either King's Landing or Casterly Rock depending on what they want to do. Thats just what I think will happen though, no real proof.

[paramount]

Littlefinger is actually meant to be Lord Paramount of the Riverlands but he has chosen to stay in the Eyrie despite the fact that he has a quarter of the Riverlands.

[Starkfaithful85]

if LF truly is one of the best players he would marry sansa to robin or harry and afterwards send ravens all throughout westeros declaring sansa the queen in the north and robin/harry king of the vale/north/riverlands...in the same letter denounce tommen as being the product of lannister incest...you would then fortify the bloody gate (if it even needs any more fortification) and wait for cersei's crazy ass to send the armies of the crown to kill sansa and put down the newly declared kingdom. short of dragons i don't believe that there is any way for awhole army to take the bloody gate without extreme causualities. the vale is well rationed...armed with the knights of the vale, who we believe to be formidible warriors, i truly don't believe that the crown could conquer the vale...so either the crown loses a large portion of its fighting strength or cersei and the crown decide to ignore sansa and the vale (something a rational person would do but cersei is the epitome of a crazy bitch)

i know this will not happen, but as far as strategy goes i would be the best move for the vale

[Dany's other paramour]

LF will get his army and try to marry Sansa himself.

I hope Sansa screws up his plans (kills him) and takes the command becoming the powerful character we all think she is becoming.

I don't believe she will marry robin, Harry, or LF. I hope she is reunited with Tyrion, why would GRRM marry them if it doesn't have greater consequences?

[Good Guy Garlan]

i know this will not happen, but as far as strategy goes i would be the best move for the vale

I do think this is his plan, but I think he'll wait until the Lannister-Tyrell-Martell alliance is effectively and publicly ruined

[juanml82]

The Vale won't unite around Sansa, it will unite around Lord Robert or Harry the Heir. It will be their army. If everything goes as planned, I don't think it will, the first thing to do would to deal with the Lannister army occupying the Riverlands. The Twins is too hard to take and if you sit out there and wait the Lannisters can just take you from behind, plus it gives the Tyrells time to react and possibly send aid. Use the Vale's massively superior numbers to weed out the Lannisters and bring in the riverlords who fought for Robb, gets you a few easy victories and your commanders build confidence. When Walder sees the noose tightening he will try to make a deal or one of his kin will kill him and try to make a deal.

Ah, but LF is the LP of the Riverlands. The moment the Freys disobey one of his orders (and they are prone to do), he can Castamere then with the approval of the Lannister-Tyrell alliance. Or at least, without their enmity.

[gumball]

There is alot more to come from little finger, brains beats brawn in GOT.

Little finger is a master of manipulation.

[King Zee]

ok first of all they are rallying around Robin Arryn not Sansa Stark. They say so flat out in the show. "

Who would you have us declare for ? Robb Stark is dead". ..

'.I would have you declare for Robin Arryn"

LF is Lord of the Riverlands so why would they march on the Freys ?

The plan is marry sansa to Robin or harry with LF as chief adviser. Thus bringing 3 of the 8 regions into one alliance.

[juanml82]

LF is Lord of the Riverlands so why would they march on the Freys ?

Two things: First, the Freys aren't likely to accept Baelish as their overlord.

Second. What do we do those who hurt the ones we love? Even if Baelish is willing to overlook Catelyn's murder, Sansa is not.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Two things: First, the Freys aren't likely to accept Baelish as their overlord.

Second. What do we do those who hurt the ones we love? Even if Baelish is willing to overlook Catelyn's murder, Sansa is not.

The Freys kinda already accept him as their overlord. What they won't accept is the annexation of the Riverlands to Littlefinger's Magic Kingdom

So, yeah, they have to go

Also, killing the Freys would earn LF points with the rest of the Riverlords. Some of them are itching to screw the Iron Throne, and even better if they do it on top of a pile of Frey corpses, declaring for the Young Wolf's sister

[paramount]

Two things: First, the Freys aren't likely to accept Baelish as their overlord.

Second. What do we do those who hurt the ones we love? Even if Baelish is willing to overlook Catelyn's murder, Sansa is not.

Littlefinger could have been aware of that which is why he went to the Eyrie.

[reignsupreme]

Why would they unite around Sansa? She isn't from the Vale and she isn't an Arryn. If they march on the Riverlands it will be because Robert or Harry give the order.

It is harder to take than you seem to think, the commander would have to divide his army in half to besiege both ends and cut them off from each other. And since you ignored Daven and his host they now only have to worry about taking on half your forces. The Vale lords probably won't commit genocide on the Freys like you are suggesting, they weren't involved in the Red Wedding so they have no reason to be so spiteful and pissed like the Starks and their fans. You are right they aren't likely to get any help, which is why it would make sense to take out the Lannister army before attacking the Twins.

Twins will be only hard to take from one side. But if besieged on both sides. Say by Jon lead army (or an unknown host) & Vale on the other. The twins would fall quite quickly. That would force the Freys to flee or bend the knee. Why would the Vale rally behind Sansa. Sansa has finally learned how to manipulate men. (Being the most beautiful women in all the 7 kingdoms). She will capture the hearts or LF,Harry and Robert. She will become the real power in the Vale