Catastrophe Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I just read about the history of the Westerlands, and it reveals that there were two more incidents in which the Greyjoys attacked the mainland: Dalton Greyjoy raided the Westerlands while Jason Lannister and his forces were off fighting in the Dance of the Dragons (which was basically the same short-sighted "strategy" that Balon used during the War of the Five Kings), and Quellon Greyjoy raided the Westerlands during Tytos Lannister's reign, simply because Tytos was considered weak. Along with Dagon Greyjoy's raids along the western coast and Balon's two rebellions, that's a minimum of five times that the Greyjoys have attacked the rest of Westeros since Aegon's Conquest, usually with the North, the Westerlands, or the Reach taking the worst of it. My question is, why do the rest of the Seven Kingdoms put up with this? Why are the Greyjoys still allowed to rule the Iron Islands? I could understand if it was just an isolated incident, but it seems like they attack the mainland once every few decades, and no matter how many times they get defeated, they never actually seem to learn their lesson. I used to think that Balon's first rebellion was the first time the Ironborn rose up against the mainland since the unification of the Seven Kingdoms, since the Targaryens were no longer in power. Aegon's deal with Vickon Greyjoy was that the Ironborn could continue to raid Essos, but would stop attacking Westeros. However, this new information makes it clear that the Greyjoys never really respected that deal, which makes me wonder why the Targaryens (and the Starks, Lannisters, and Tyrells) allowed them to remain in control of the Iron Islands. By this point, you'd think someone would've just said "enough is enough" and wiped out the Greyjoys, or at least removed them from power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Why specifically the Starks, Lannisters and Tyrells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pox Americana Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Ironborns gonna Ironborn. I doubt it would make a huge difference if it weren't the Greyjoys on the Seastone throne. Short of the progressive Harlaws, the Ironborn seem pretty well stuck in the past. ^Geography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Dalton was actually acting on behalf of Rhaenyra during the Dance. I'm sure that was just an excuse, but still technically that was fair game because he was fighting for the blacks and the Lannisters were firmly in the green camp. Edit: you mention five times since the conquest. I count The Dance (which as explained above doesn't really count), Tytos, Greyjoy Rebellion, War of the Five Kings what was the other, I'm blanking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bittersteel Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 It's a good question. Presumably because nobody is willing to put in the time or money to re-structure the Iron islands. I think the problem is mostly small scale raiding the instances of large scale uprisings have been fairly few given that it's been 300 years. I guess it's worth pointing out that it's rarely the Targaryen's own lands that are attacked and they were so often dealing with their own problems that maybe it wasn't a major concern for them. Why specifically the Starks, Lannisters and Tyrells?Because they rule the areas that are attacked the most often, having the largest coasts on the western side of Westeros. Presumably the Starks haven't retaliated due to having a small navy. I believe this is the case with the Tullys as well. As to the Lannisters and Tyrells though, I'm not sure what the reason is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 It's a good question. Presumably because nobody is willing to put in the time or money to re-structure the Iron islands. I think the problem is mostly small scale raiding the instances of large scale uprisings have been fairly few given that it's been 300 years. I guess it's worth pointing out that it's rarely the Targaryen's own lands that are attacked and they were so often dealing with their own problems that maybe it wasn't a major concern for them. Because they rule the areas that are attacked the most often, having the largest coasts on the western side of Westeros. Presumably the Starks haven't retaliated due to having a small navy. I believe this is the case with the Tullys as well. As to the Lannisters and Tyrells though, I'm not sure what the reason is. Yeah. I just wanted to know why the Tullys were left out. Anyways, they know that the Greyjoys are useful and replacing them with another House won't change the IB. IB are gonna IB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I just read about the history of the Westerlands, and it reveals that there were two more incidents in which the Greyjoys attacked the mainland: Dalton Greyjoy raided the Westerlands while Jason Lannister and his forces were off fighting in the Dance of the Dragons (which was basically the same short-sighted "strategy" that Balon used during the War of the Five Kings), and Quellon Greyjoy raided the Westerlands during Tytos Lannister's reign, simply because Tytos was considered weak.Along with Dagon Greyjoy's raids along the western coast and Balon's two rebellions, that's a minimum of five times that the Greyjoys have attacked the rest of Westeros since Aegon's Conquest, usually with the North, the Westerlands, or the Reach taking the worst of it. My question is, why do the rest of the Seven Kingdoms put up with this? Why are the Greyjoys still allowed to rule the Iron Islands? I could understand if it was just an isolated incident, but it seems like they attack the mainland once every few decades, and no matter how many times they get defeated, they never actually seem to learn their lesson.I used to think that Balon's first rebellion was the first time the Ironborn rose up against the mainland since the unification of the Seven Kingdoms, since the Targaryens were no longer in power. Aegon's deal with Vickon Greyjoy was that the Ironborn could continue to raid Essos, but would stop attacking Westeros. However, this new information makes it clear that the Greyjoys never really respected that deal, which makes me wonder why the Targaryens (and the Starks, Lannisters, and Tyrells) allowed them to remain in control of the Iron Islands. By this point, you'd think someone would've just said "enough is enough" and wiped out the Greyjoys, or at least removed them from power.1) Lannisters were greens; Greyjoy's were black. Rhaenyra gave Dalton permission to raid and do whatever he wished against greens.2) Tytos was a weak lord; he didn't offer protection. Even his own bannermen defied him, if he can't even keep them in check, than it's no surprise that the Ironborn would reave their shores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 It's a good question. Presumably because nobody is willing to put in the time or money to re-structure the Iron islands. I think the problem is mostly small scale raiding the instances of large scale uprisings have been fairly few given that it's been 300 years. I guess it's worth pointing out that it's rarely the Targaryen's own lands that are attacked and they were so often dealing with their own problems that maybe it wasn't a major concern for them. Because they rule the areas that are attacked the most often, having the largest coasts on the western side of Westeros. Presumably the Starks haven't retaliated due to having a small navy. I believe this is the case with the Tullys as well. As to the Lannisters and Tyrells though, I'm not sure what the reason is. The Tyrells don't attack the Ironborn because they don't have any reasons to. Since one of their old Kings armed the fishermen on the shield islands and set up a system of watchtowers, they have been save from pretty much every type of raid (perhaps some small ones got through, but that would be on a par with the Reaches own crooks). We learn in AFFC that it's been 2000 years since the Ironborn last had control of the shield islands and treatened the lands deep in the Reach. FWIW, this also shows what an absolute military genius Euron is. Ironborn conquest of the Reach could never succeed in this 2000 years, because the watchtowers would spot large fleets (which they would have to use, otherwise no possible chance in gettung through) and signal everyone to be prepared. Euron avoided them by sailing his fleets farther west than any captain had ever done before. That's an act of commanding brilliance that even puts Robb's attack on the Westerlands and Stannis attack on Mance to shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartelloTorres Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Maybe it's just more trouble than it's worth. Most of the Westerosi islands are rubbish, and few people are particularly keen on ruling there. Think of Dragonstone - Robert gave it to Stannis as a punishment more than anything else. If a king did kill off the Greyjoys, they would have two options: either raise another Ironborn family in their place, or install a mainland family as rulers. Another Ironborn family would act just as the Greyjoys would, and an outsider family would have a terrible time trying to keep them under control. What's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 It's not a problem that's solvable by what they've got at their disposal? it's like fighting a fungus; smash a pirate colony and a new one hatches from the residue next year is the way I'd try to explain it to myself were I curious about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l3ol3o Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Well there are a few problems. 1) Replacing the Greyjoys does little. It's the IB culture that the problem not the Greyjoys themselves. 2) Logistics. For the Greyjoys to be "taken care" of means sending an army over to the Iron Islands. This mean an invasion which means a naval battle. The IB are a large naval battle so for them to be defeated will take a situation like their rebellion during Roberts rein where all the Kingdoms united against them. I don't think any of the Kingdoms can face the IB alone except for maybe the Tyrells because of their fleet. 3) Motivation. There is nothing on the Iron Islands worth fighting for. There are no real resources or wealth so no one wants to really conquer it. Going to war just to replace a family isn't enough motivation for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar Targaryen II Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 i guess cause no one see the iron isles worth destroying since they seem to always be dealt with when they arrive on the main lands. Still if they are gonna deal with the iron born they would have to make sure that they do a complete genocide so the culture of raiding is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catastrophe Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Dalton was actually acting on behalf of Rhaenyra during the Dance. I'm sure that was just an excuse, but still technically that was fair game because he was fighting for the blacks and the Lannisters were firmly in the green camp. Edit: you mention five times since the conquest. I count The Dance (which as explained above doesn't really count), Tytos, Greyjoy Rebellion, War of the Five Kings what was the other, I'm blanking? Dagon Greyjoy's attacks on the North and the Westerlands, during the time of the Dunk and Egg stories. I wasn't aware that Dalton Greyjoy had actually declared for either side in the Targaryen civil war, I thought he was just being an opportunist like Balon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 The Greyjoys aren't put down because the rest of Westeros knows that the Drowned God wouldn't allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 They need to do what that one Lannister king did and take bunch of hostages and hang one for every raid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggs92 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 @martellotorres I agree with you sorta but look at dragonstone with stannis, a strong military commander with the backing of the throne and other lord paramounts stannis held Dragonstone, the targ base of power where the families were vassels to the crown prince, and years later those houses follow stannis in the wo5k. so for aguements sake let's say after balon rebelled the first time I think king bob could of ousted greyjoys and put umm I dunno blackfiah or kevin lamnister in charge based on their family being lord paramounts and the backkng of throne plus starks those two might of been able to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Dagon Greyjoy's attacks on the North and the Westerlands, during the time of the Dunk and Egg stories.I wasn't aware that Dalton Greyjoy had actually declared for either side in the Targaryen civil war, I thought he was just being an opportunist like Balon.It's info from a leaked extract from tWOIAF. The Greyjoy stuff seems to be awesome btw. Dalton was a real boss, he would not have cared for Balon's stupidity from the looks of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Because that's par for the course and there is no good replacement either way. The Ironborn need the economical stimulus raiding provides them with. Without going to great lengths to restructure the economy and population of the Iron Islands, they'll always raid the weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOne Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Why oh why is right. Can't trust a grey joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Because, everyone loves a rogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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