Is there still a king in the north?

[Bronn Urgandy]

Can't wait for the Northerners to kick Stannis out after he helps them secure Winterfell, declare for another KITN just in time for the Wall to fall and the Others to cross, might finally get some perspective then.

Tell that to the crofters, fishermen and other villagers who came pouring out of the woodwork when Stannis drove the ironborn from Deepwood, while the northern lords did squat to help them.

Haha

[Lee-Sensei]

There wasn't a deal, Stannis rallied the North against the Bolton's not for him as king. The only person who has said he'll take Stannis as his king is Manderly who probably doesn't intend to honour his word and might likely be dead soon anyway.

No offense, but that's silly. The deal was that they'd declare for him if he restores the Starks.

[shearstone]

No offense, but that's silly. The deal was that they'd declare for him if he restores the Starks.

Textual proof? I don't recall one Northman referring to Stannis as their king.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

But they're the only ones who CAN march in winter.

They have enough to get ten thousand men together; that is certainly an army, and fighting people who don't know winter and aren't hardy northmen, they are going to excel and be able to take some castles with ease. Robb didn't call anywhere near the max amount of northern levies, as shown by how many armies are roaming the north right now.

The hope is that Stannis doesn't grind them down too much, and he knows he faces this problem as well.

The North definitely isn't done by any means. They can field around 30k-35k from current estimates, and only sent around 20k south or less. Lady Dustin even admitted that she only sent the bare minimum of levies.

More like 35,000 still available. More like 10,000 of them are currently on the march.

There wasn't a deal, Stannis rallied the North against the Bolton's not for him as king. The only person who has said he'll take Stannis as his king is Manderly who probably doesn't intend to honour his word and might likely be dead soon anyway.

Manderly worded that statement very carefully. He (personally, not House Manderly) would take Stannis as his king, if Davos brought him his liege (Bran, not Rickon). He's got like a million ways out of that without breaking any promise.

A wordplay, just like with the Freys. Doesn't mean he'll intend to backstab Stannis, but he has the option.

Can't wait for the Northerners to kick Stannis out after he helps them secure Winterfell, declare for another KITN just in time for the Wall to fall and the Others to cross, might finally get some perspective then.

That will be the Stark's decision.

By the way, Stannis brings barely anything to the table. It's the Northmen carrying him currently.

No offense, but that's silly. The deal was that they'd declare for him if he restores the Starks.

Any hint for that? A single line? Anywhere?

That's what Stannis likes to think, but the Northmen didn't promise anything. Nor did Stannis ask for it.

[Lee-Sensei]

More like 35,000 still available. More like 10,000 of them are currently on the march.

Manderly worded that statement very carefully. He (personally, not House Manderly) would take Stannis as his king, if Davos brought him his liege (Bran, not Rickon). He's got like a million ways out of that without breaking any promise.

A wordplay, just like with the Freys. Doesn't mean he'll intend to backstab Stannis, but he has the option.

That will be the Stark's decision.

By the way, Stannis brings barely anything to the table. It's the Northmen carrying him currently.

Any hint for that? A single line? Anywhere?

That's what Stannis likes to think, but the Northmen didn't promise anything. Nor did Stannis ask for it.

Didn't the Manderly girl say something about it? Either way if they use Stannis to get their precious Starks back and then turn on him before the Ice Demons come, they'll have less honor then back alley whores.

[The Drunkard]

Any hint for that? A single line? Anywhere?

That's what Stannis likes to think, but the Northmen didn't promise anything. Nor did Stannis ask for it.

Any hint, line, etc, that it wasn't?

The fact is, we don't know the terms of their deal. We do know Stannis' nature, though, and his insistence that everyone bend the knee.

By the way, Stannis brings barely anything to the table. It's the Northmen carrying him currently.

He gives the north a figure to rally around in opposition to the Boltons. Before he marched south the mountain clans were sitting pretty in their hills, Rodrik's old host was scattered apart in the Wolfswood, and the miscallenous smallfolk (crofters, fishermen, hillmen, etc) weren't joining with any of the northern lords. After he takes Deepwood, though, all of these otherwise scattered factions united under him.

Plus, a thousand odd soldiers in plate and mail is nothing to sneeze at when half the army is guys wearing leather and tree branches.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Didn't the Manderly girl say something about it? Either way if they use Stannis to get their precious Starks back and then turn on him before the Ice Demons come, they'll have less honor then back alley whores.

The Manderly girl stating something about being Stark men forever? Yes, she did.

And while you may judge the North's behavior as you like, some may disagree. Particularly the Northmen actually making that decision. Furthermore, Stannis asking more than was bargained for and the Northmen just quietly refusing, that's not backstabbing in my book.

[Lee-Sensei]

The Manderly girl stating something about being Stark men forever? Yes, she did.

And while you may judge the North's behavior as you like, some may disagree. Particularly the Northmen actually making that decision. Furthermore, Stannis asking more than was bargained for and the Northmen just quietly refusing, that's not backstabbing in my book.

She said something about declaring for Stannis if he'd help them avenge the Starks.

I'm sure Balon Greyjoy would disagree about being treacherous jerks. It doesn't mean they aren't.

[The Sleeper]

His name is Brandon Stark and he currently resides in the hollow hill beyoind the Wall.

More serously currently, no. The question is if there are enough people in the north who want a KitN, if they can be rallied beneath a single claimant and what it will take to make it happen. The answer to the first is a deifinite yes. Robb was made king basically by popular demand and there are plenty of houses in the north whose default allegiance is to house Stark. That might be trickier. There is a power vacum on who speaks for house Starks, Robb's will was made under false assumptions and the presumed procalimed heir is unavailable and there seem to be ready factions who would be pushing their own calims with their own Stark figureheads. What it will take to see ti through? Very little actually. The Iron Throne is basically defunct and the North is already de facto independent. Roose Bolton could procalim himself king at the moment and the IT could and would do diddly squat about it.

Of course, Bran being alive and an emerging demi-god with the wisdom of aeons, omniscience, power over the beasts of land sea and air, and potentially the elements and men's wills should smooth things eventually.

It has been made abundantly clear that the only people in the North who give a flying fuck about Stannis are the Boltons and their allies, who want to kill him. No Northman has pledged any sort of allegiance to Stannis except the usurper of Karhold and him with the intention of stabbing him in the back. The rest see him as someone with whom they have currently alligned interests. His claim to the Iron Throne is not their concern and neither is what he presumes.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Any hint, line, etc, that it wasn't?

The fact is, we don't know the terms of their deal. We do know Stannis' nature, though, and his insistence that everyone bend the knee.

The absolute lack of any Northmen stating him to be his king or adressing him as his king or planning to make him king.

He gives the north a figure to rally around in opposition to the Boltons. Before he marched south the mountain clans were sitting pretty in their hills, Rodrik's old host was scattered apart in the Wolfswood, and the miscallenous smallfolk (crofters, fishermen, hillmen, etc) weren't joining with any of the northern lords. After he takes Deepwood, though, all of these otherwise scattered factions united under him.

Plus, a thousand odd soldiers in plate and mail is nothing to sneeze at when half the army is guys wearing leather and tree branches.

Yes, he does bring something to the table. Something important. But the North brings more.

[Dragon Seed]

Yes, by rights it would be Bran. Then Rickon. Then Arya (Sansa being disinherited).

The decree of Jon succeeding Robb was one of "if nobody but Sansa is left alive".

Why is Sansa disinherited? She never married Joffery, she was forced into a marriage with the Imp, a marriage that was never consumated and is currently being held by LF against her will in the Erie. I'm confused by this.

[The Drunkard]

The absolute lack of any Northmen stating him to be his king or adressing him as his king or planning to make him king.

An assumption like that based on chapters told from the perspective of a prisoner who has limited contact with the northerners and is never privy to any battle plans seems pretty flimsy.

Yes, he does bring something to the table. Something important. But the North brings more.

'Barely anything' became 'something important' quickly...

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

As far as Northern Lords know Jon Snow, legitimized as Jon Stark is their king per Robb's will. The whole thing about Bran and Rickon actually being alive will be sorted out later. Now whether Jon agrees to be king is up for debate but as of this instant, he's king. He just doesn't know it yet.

[Rysler]

Any hint for that? A single line? Anywhere?

That's what Stannis likes to think, but the Northmen didn't promise anything. Nor did Stannis ask for it.

I agree with you in general, but Manderly did in fact promise.

"That is my price, Lord Davos. Smuggle me back my liege lord, and I will take Stannis Baratheon as my king." - Wyman Manderly.

Sounds like a Ned-and-Robert kind of situation to me. Robert is the king, but Ned rules the North.

[Mithras]

Can't wait for the Northerners to kick Stannis out after he helps them secure Winterfell, declare for another KITN just in time for the Wall to fall and the Others to cross, might finally get some perspective then.

I don't think so. Storywise, the Manderly Fleet can only be used by Stannis. Neither Bran/Rickon nor Jon can make use of it. I think Wyman will stay true to his word and he will declare for Stannis after Rickon is installed to Winterfell.

Dany should slay the lie that Stannis is AAR (that does not mean she will kill him and/or she is herself the AAR). She just has to show that he is not AAR as he and Mel proclaim. Note that Dany will have the full support of Benerro when she comes. And the Red Religion cannot have two heroes.

The most likely scenario is that Stannis leads the Northmen against Dany. But he well knows that Dany will have far more troops than him and additionally three big dragons. Dany will challenge him and I think this will be the point of desperation for Stannis. Before marching on Dany, he will allow Mel to summon a shadow dragon and he will ride it to the battle. I hate to say but Shireen looks like the most likely person to be sacrificed for this (but I do hope that Jon will save her). Gerrick Kingsblood is also destined to burn in the pyre of Mel with his son. Maybe they will be the sacrifices necessary to summon the shadow dragon.

I think Stannis will fall in this battle and after his fall, the Northmen will “melt away” before Dany. They will retreat and crown Rickon as the King in the North. Dany will skip them and turn to fAegon, who will have full support of Dorne, Stormlands and the Reach.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Why is Sansa disinherited? She never married Joffery, she was forced into a marriage with the Imp, a marriage that was never consumated and is currently being held by LF against her will in the Erie. I'm confused by this.

Because Robb stated thus in his will, since he wanted to prevent Tyrion Lannister, Lord-Consort to his obedient and beaten down wife Sansa, ruling the North.

An assumption like that based on chapters told from the perspective of a prisoner who has limited contact with the northerners and is never privy to any battle plans seems pretty flimsy.

Now we're talking about author's intent. In that regard, I consider these omissions to be deliberate.

'Barely anything' became 'something important' quickly...

Hey, 20% of a total can be both. And the North's part is growing.

"That is my price, Lord Davos. Smuggle me back my liege lord, and I will take Stannis Baratheon as my king." - Wyman Manderly.

Fact: Davos intends to retrieve Rickon. Manderly's liege lord is - Bran.

Fact: Wyman promised himself, not his house. And he seems intent on committing suicide in Winterfell.

Two gaping holes in that "promise", which he knew from the very start.

[shearstone]

Because Robb stated thus in his will, since he wanted to prevent Tyrion Lannister, Lord-Consort to his obedient and beaten down wife Sansa, ruling the North.

Fact: Davos intends to retrieve Rickon. Manderly's liege lord is - Bran.

Fact: Wyman promised himself, not his house. And he seems intent on committing suicide in Winterfell.

Two gaping holes in that "promise", which he knew from the very start.

I agree with you and I just read through the chapters in ADWD and only one Northman calls Stannis king. That's Arnolf Karstark and we know why he was doing it.

[Mithras]

I agree with you and I just read through the chapters in ADWD and only one Northman calls Stannis king. That's Arnolf Karstark and we know why he was doing it.

How about the mountain clans and all the other thousands of Northmen in the army of Stannis?

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Lets not forget, if Manderly had Rickon and Osha before sending them to Skagos then he likely knows Bran is alive with the Reeds. Why wouldn't he have asked, and if he did why would they lie to him about it? Why not acknowledge that, Bran is technically his leige Lord, not Rickon. I agree something fishy is up. He clearly isn't planning on going home again.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

How about the mountain clans and all the other thousands of Northmen in the army of Stannis?

Didn't ever call him their king, swore him their swords or gave of any sign that they accept him as their ruler. Ally, yes. Commanding officer of a united army, yes. Reign? No sign at all.