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Why would the Highlords of Westeros declare for Jon?


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221 replies to this topic

#1 Lee-Sensei

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:30 AM

I'm really curious about this. I mean, the North makes sense. Robb named Jon his heir. Maybe the Riverlands too, although I'm not sure how they'd feel about following Ned Starks bastard since it's an insult to House Tully. But why the rest of Westeros? None of them have a connection to Jon and if the truth about his birth comes out, the biggest Targ loyalists (the Martells) would be against him.



#2 FranklynFowler

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:38 AM

If he is the Last Hero and defeats the others, that's a pretty good reason. and all he's got to do is marry Dany if she wins.



#3 Nozlym

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:40 AM

i can see one reason of him being a targ that might help sway some ppl would be that he was Rhaegars son. Someone who was generally loved by all.



#4 Lee-Sensei

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:40 AM

If he is the Last Hero and defeats the others, that's a pretty good reason. and all he's got to do is marry Dany if she wins.

But would the nobles be grateful enough to swear fealty to Jon? And doesn't Jon not want to be King? He refused Winterfell after all.

 

i can see one reason of him being a targ that might help sway some ppl would be that he was Rhaegars son. Someone who was generally loved by all.

Was he loved by all?


Edited by Lee-Sensei, 08 June 2014 - 12:40 AM.


#5 Nozlym

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:47 AM

 

 

Was he loved by all?

 

"generally"



#6 Jon of the (Evil) Dead

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:55 AM

Eh, there's a lid for every pot. 

 

Some southron lords would flock to Jon, especially those who wouldn't belong with either Dany or Aegon. The Tyrells, for example, if things go sour for them with Tommen. 


Edited by Jon of the (Evil) Dead, 08 June 2014 - 12:55 AM.


#7 TheNinjaDC

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:57 AM

It would likely be due to a combination of displayed skill (after all the **** that goes on, everyone has to agree a competent ruler is needed), proven linage, existing(soon to be existing) alliance packs (North, Vale, Riverlands, ect ), brownie points (key player in saving world), and his inevitable marriage alliance (if he becomes king, he will get a political marriage; potential candidates include Asha[Iron Islands], Shireen[Stormlands/Baratheon claim], or Dany[DRAGONS!!!... if they live]).

 

In short, the realm will need a competent leader most sides can agree to, and Jon might fit that best by story's end. Basically Night's watch election, version 2.0.


Edited by TheNinjaDC, 08 June 2014 - 12:59 AM.


#8 Dornish Vinegar

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:59 AM

Lacking any hard, irrefutable proof of his origins, and barring any kind of "let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya we've survived!" shift in the attitudes of the great houses in Westeros after the fight against the Walkers, you're gonna have a hard time getting the backing of any regions besides the North. Unless, as Jon of the (Evil) Dead points out, southron houses see opportunity for him as a vehicle for their political ambitions.



#9 devilish

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:01 AM

The Targs were always perceived as foreigners in Westeros. This prejudice will surely increase with Aegon's/Dany's armies mainly made up of foreigners. These people aren't stupid. If Dany/Aegon win then present generals will end up Lords, present officers will end up knights and guess who will lose lands?

 

Also the Targs hasn't left in good terms. Dany/Aegon may understand that the Mad King was, well, mad but they would certainly not understand the outrageous violence towards their family especially since Aegon the conquerer was good to these 'savages', allowing them to keep their lands and titles. Dany/Aegon may close an eye towards the former allies such as the Tyrells and Martels IF they bend the knee at an early stage. They may also forgive the Starks too (Lyanna kidnapped, Brandon burned etc). However I doubt that they will show any kindness to the Baratheons and the Lannisters. 



#10 Lee-Sensei

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:07 AM

It would likely be due to a combination of displayed skill (after all the **** that goes on, everyone has to agree a competent ruler is needed), proven linage, existing(soon to be existing) alliance packs (North, Vale, Riverlands, ect ), brownie points (key player in saving world), and his inevitable marriage alliance (if he becomes king, he will get a political marriage; potential candidates include Asha[Iron Islands], Shireen[Stormlands/Baratheon claim], or Dany[DRAGONS!!!... if they live]).

 

In short, the realm will need a competent leader most sides can agree to, and Jon might fit that best by story's end. Basically Night's watch election, version 2.0.

1) Has Jon proven to be a good ruler?

 

2) I don't think the Vale's part of that pack.

 

3) Isn't Daenerys Jon's aunt?

 

4) Didn't GRRM say that who ends up on th IT would be a surprise. Jon is a popular choice for King from what I've seen.



#11 Fat Trell

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:12 AM

The idea of Jon swooping in to claim the Iron Throne has always struck me as farfetched  



#12 devilish

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:15 AM

1) Has Jon proven to be a good ruler?

 

2) I don't think the Vale's part of that pack.

 

3) Isn't Daenerys Jon's aunt?

 

4) Didn't GRRM say that who ends up on th IT would be a surprise. Jon is a popular choice for King from what I've seen.

 

Imagine if Hodor become King.



#13 TheNinjaDC

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:26 AM

1) Has Jon proven to be a good ruler?

 

2) I don't think the Vale's part of that pack.

 

3) Isn't Daenerys Jon's aunt?

 

4) Didn't GRRM say that who ends up on th IT would be a surprise. Jon is a popular choice for King from what I've seen.

1&2, I'm speaking in future tense, as in his actions in the last two books prove his leadership skill(stuff like getting the Wildlings and watch to fight alongside each-other). Same goes for future alliances (Sansa's backstab of Pedofinger will likely put a Vale & Riverlands on the side of a Stark blooded ruler).

 

3: Yes she is, and unfortunately that is a possibility that is quasi-acceptable to Westeros standards(cousin's can marry).  :wacko:

 

4: Jon is popular amongst core book fans, but many GoT/causal fans have absolutely no idea about R+L=J. Just had a fun conversation with a hardcore GoT fan IRL. Kept trying to coach her into self discovery. In-short, most fans would be blindsided by Jon.

 

Add to this, Jon's wife could be an unlikely, but connect queen (Asha or Shireen) would blow everyone's minds.



#14 TheonGreyjoy

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:27 AM

1) Has Jon proven to be a good ruler?

 

2) I don't think the Vale's part of that pack.

 

3) Isn't Daenerys Jon's aunt?

 

4) Didn't GRRM say that who ends up on th IT would be a surprise. Jon is a popular choice for King from what I've seen.

 

1) Jon seem to be the only leader which care for all people in the realm, including the wildlings at hardhome. put his people before his ambitions, as the only one we seen so far

 

2) I see the Vale root for Jon very likely as Sansa have a strong chance of controlling the Vales forces. And as we read in dwd Sansa miss her family, including Jon.

 

3) dont understand your point

 

4) Jon is a suprise for king. The bastard on the wall to king of the realm. If that is not a suprise, i dont know what. The casual reader dont over analyse the books, as readers on the forum. The majority will have Stannis or Dany as favorites for the crown. 



#15 Lee-Sensei

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:31 AM

1) Jon seem to be the only leader which care for all people in the realm, including the wildlings at hardhome. put his people before his ambitions, as the only one we seen so far

 

2) I see the Vale root for Jon very likely as Sansa have a strong chance of controlling the Vales forces. And as we read in dwd Sansa miss her family, including Jon.

 

3) dont understand your point

 

4) Jon is a suprise for king. The bastard on the wall to king of the realm. If that is not a suprise, i dont know what. The casual reader dont over analyse the books, as readers on the forum. The majority will have Stannis or Dany as favorites for the crown. 

1) Edmure.

 

2) Nah. If SR dies, the Vale goes to Harry who has no connection to the North and the Riverlands.

 

3) Eh. I was just saying that it would be an incestuous relationship, but then again... they are Targaryens. :P

 

4) O.K.

 

1&2, I'm speaking in future tense, as in his actions in the last two books prove his leadership skill(stuff like getting the Wildlings and watch to fight alongside each-other). Same goes for future alliances (Sansa's backstab of Pedofinger will likely put a Vale & Riverlands on the side of a Stark blooded ruler).

 

3: Yes she is, and unfortunately that is a possibility that is quasi-acceptable to Westeros standards(cousin's can marry).   :wacko:

 

4: Jon is popular amongst core book fans, but many GoT/causal fans have absolutely no idea about R+L=J. Just had a fun conversation with a hardcore GoT fan IRL. Kept trying to coach her into self discovery. In-short, most fans would be blindsided by Jon.

 

Add to this, Jon's wife could be an unlikely, but connect queen (Asha or Shireen) would blow everyone's minds.

1) Why would the Highlords care about the wildings?

 

2) Harry inherits the Vale if SR dies. Not Sansa. And he has no connection to Jon.

 

3) Yeah. Possibly. It just seems icky, but then again... they are Targs. :P

 

4) O.K.


Edited by Lee-Sensei, 08 June 2014 - 01:38 AM.


#16 TheonGreyjoy

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:35 AM

Edmure would also be a good pick for king, but i doubt he will act in the long night part 2. Jon is more set up to fight the others. Also if you consider Robbs will, then Jon is Edmures king.



#17 KINGpanther

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:36 AM

Jon on the IT would suck not because it's cliche but because it would mean he would be embracing his Targaryen heritage which I would fucking hate and see as the worst ending for Jon. My happy ending for Jon would be him in a rebuilt Winterfell reunited with Arya and Rickon embracing his Stark heritage but considering Jon is the only potential IT claiment with knowledge of the Others and perceives them as a threat, Jon as king is likly.

#18 TheonGreyjoy

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:39 AM

Jon on the IT would suck not because it's cliche but because it would mean he would be embracing his Targaryen heritage which I would fucking hate and see as the worst ending for Jon. My happy ending for Jon would be him in a rebuilt Winterfell reunited with Arya and Rickon embracing his Stark heritage but considering Jon is the only potential IT claiment with knowledge of the Others and perceives them as a threat, Jon as king is likly.

 

I dont think Jon will sit on the IT as a Targaryan, but as a SNOW. After he is king, he will give all bastards the same rights and names as trueborn children,  but its my own crackpot theory.



#19 Lee-Sensei

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:43 AM

I dont think Jon will sit on the IT as a Targaryan, but as a SNOW. After he is king, he will give all bastards the same rights and names as trueborn children,  but its my own crackpot theory.

That seems like it would cause a lot of trouble.



#20 Salinda

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:49 AM

I don't see why they would

 

i) Even if Jon saves all of Westeros single-handedly, they won't appreciate that or make him King just for that reason. This series has shown time and time again that most nobles are self-centered people

ii) Jon's parentage has no physical evidence besides what some theorize to be Rhaegar's harp beneath Winterfell. And even so, many would dispute that such a thing actually belongs to Rhaegar

iii) Even if some other conclusive evidence of Jon's parentage existed... so? Nobody is going to give up power just because someone has the birth right, which is again something we have seen time and time again in this series

 

Jon being declared King of Westeros would involve a lot of contrivances to make it even remotely possible


Edited by Salinda, 08 June 2014 - 01:49 AM.