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Yeah guess I got a little emotional there. My bad. So there's still the time for Stannis to come.

But my quarrel does remain; the end of the battle is pretty emphasized. Jon takes Tormund captive and everybody's happy and its saved... Stannis coming, and given how much D&D hate him, would very well be a scene 40% of what we hoped for. :/

Honestly, I don't get the "D&D hates Stannis!" paranoia. It's ridiculous. To someone, like myself, who doesn't hate or love Stannis, the show hasn't gypped him in any way whatsoever or made him look like a villain. He looks like a hardass who has a great sidekick who gives him good advice and a witch that doesn't a always. He's not a saint, and he sometimes makes bad decisions. He's also not evil, and sometimes makes good decisions...but that's EVERY leader- no one is perfect. They do a good job of showing how Stannis' rigidity affects him and his decisions, and how Davos and Melisandre know how to get him to bend.

This conspiracy theory talk gets old. He'll get his hero moment, we've already seen it in the promo.

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^ Seriously, why would they have an anti-Stannis agenda? It's not like he's a real person- people liking him would actually be for the benefit of the show, for people to stay invested.



I was actually hoping for no Stannis, so the Night's Watch get their moment of awesomeness. To show him coming at the end so quickly would have not only made the episode seem like a rehash of Blackwater, but would have also undermined the Night's Watch's efforts, who were written masterfully by D&D this episode. Stannis will get his awesome moment next episode, and people will definitely remember it, so stop worrying guys! Also, to those saying that it will be rushed- it definitely won't.



Dany- 7 minutes


Bran- 7 minutes


KL- 10 minutes


Tyrion- 12 minutes


Arya/Hound- 10 minutes


Brienne- 5 minutes (could be merged)


LS- 4 minutes (could be merged)



Even with all that, it still leaves a solid 10 minutes for Jon's storyline. Stannis' moment will definitely be awesome. It's also pretty obvious that there is a lot of emphasis on it from how they treated it in the official season trailer.


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^ Seriously, why would they have an anti-Stannis agenda? It's not like he's a real person- people liking him would actually be for the benefit of the show, for people to stay invested.

I was actually hoping for no Stannis, so the Night's Watch get their moment of awesomeness. To show him coming at the end so quickly would have not only made the episode seem like a rehash of Blackwater, but would have also undermined the Night's Watch's efforts, who were written masterfully by D&D this episode. Stannis will get his awesome moment next episode, and people will definitely remember it, so stop worrying guys! Also, to those saying that it will be rushed- it definitely won't.

Dany- 7 minutes

Bran- 7 minutes

KL- 10 minutes

Tyrion- 12 minutes

Arya/Hound- 10 minutes

Brienne- 5 minutes (could be merged)

LS- 4 minutes (could be merged)

Even with all that, it still leaves a solid 10 minutes for Jon's storyline. Stannis' moment will definitely be awesome. It's also pretty obvious that there is a lot of emphasis on it from how they treated it in the official season trailer.

Exactly. It just baffles me that people are upset that Stannis didn't show up during a battle that never had him in the first place. The NW held off the Wildlings for a long time in the books and Stannis only showed up after everything looked bleak. The entire point of this episode is to show how the NW is on their own, cut off from the 7 kingdoms with no hope of help...or even survival. Grenn died, Pyp died, Ygritte died, and Jon is now going on a suicide mission in a last-ditch attempt to kill Mance. There's no point in making an episode, emphasizing that hopelessness and sacrifice, and then completely undercut it in the end just to give some screen time and hero moment to another character...the hero moment belonged to the NW, and their ability to stay strong in the face of overwhelming and devastating odds.

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Honestly, I don't get the "D&D hates Stannis!" paranoia. It's ridiculous. To someone, like myself, who doesn't hate or love Stannis, the show hasn't gypped him in any way whatsoever or made him look like a villain. He looks like a hardass who has a great sidekick who gives him good advice and a witch that doesn't a always. He's not a saint, and he sometimes makes bad decisions. He's also not evil, and sometimes makes good decisions...but that's EVERY leader- no one is perfect. They do a good job of showing how Stannis' rigidity affects him and his decisions, and how Davos and Melisandre know how to get him to bend.

This conspiracy theory talk gets old. He'll get his hero moment, we've already seen it in the promo.

Thank You!. I simply do not get that some simply do not GET that you cannot capture each and every moment that is within the books and something that works on paper does NOT always work on film. Take each art and view the separately for what they give to us joy or if it gives so much hate then don't watch it or watch it and not continually gripe about its some things simply cannot be...

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To be fair, some of the Stannis scenes have had me cringing ...


I was pretty 'meh' about him until book 5. Only after the constant hilarious head-butting with Jon did I come to appreciate his character. When I finished the book, I immediately re-read books 2 to 4 to get a better picture of him. The loss of his parents, the hawk story, starving within the walls of Storm's End, the bitterness between the three brothers ... all the moments I'd glossed over on previous reads.


The grudging respect he gives Davos is clearly missing from the show, and that begging for sex scene? Omg. Just. Omg.


Only one time in all the seasons he's been in have I given him a fistpump, and that was when he stated to Selyse that he wouldn't allow his daughter to be harmed, even though he doesn't show any affection towards Shireen in the books.


I wasn't waiting for Stannis to show up in this episode, simply because the trailer had the battle sequences fought out in the dark; but the character has been in some head-scratching scenes which I hope they're done with. Season 5 should give them time to allow us to see the Stannis from the books, the one I can't help but admire from time to time - as much as I dislike him.


The way they had me cheering for Alliser this episode gives me hope for future Stannis. :lol:


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To be fair, some of the Stannis scenes have had me cringing ...

I was pretty 'meh' about him until book 5. Only after the constant hilarious head-butting with Jon did I come to appreciate his character. When I finished the book, I immediately re-read books 2 to 4 to get a better picture of him. The loss of his parents, the hawk story, starving within the walls of Storm's End, the bitterness between the three brothers ... all the moments I'd glossed over on previous reads.

The grudging respect he gives Davos is clearly missing from the show, and that begging for sex scene? Omg. Just. Omg.

Only one time in all the seasons he's been in have I given him a fistpump, and that was when he stated to Selyse that he wouldn't allow his daughter to be harmed, even though he doesn't show any affection towards Shireen in the books.

I wasn't waiting for Stannis to show up in this episode, simply because the trailer had the battle sequences fought out in the dark; but the character has been in some head-scratching scenes which I hope they're done with. Season 5 should give them time to allow us to see the Stannis from the books, the one I can't help but admire from time to time - as much as I dislike him.

The way they had me cheering for Alliser this episode gives me hope for future Stannis. :lol:

I think both Stannis and Jon will really shine in the next season, being able to play off of each other. Both of the characters are very insulated to their own little cast of characters, so it will be great to see them finally interacting with someone else in Westeros. It's something I look forward to very much.

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I think both Stannis and Jon will really shine in the next season, being able to play off of each other. Both of the characters are very insulated to their own little cast of characters, so it will be great to see them finally interacting with someone else in Westeros. It's something I look forward to very much.

And may I say, sj4iy, I adore your sig. I got chills watching that scene, and promptly turned to hubby and said, "Ned Stark II, baby!"

I'm so silly. :lol:

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And may I say, sj4iy, I adore your sig. I got chills watching that scene, and promptly turned to hubby and said, "Ned Stark II, baby!"

I'm so silly. :lol:

Thanks :D My husband and I fist-bumped at that scene...it was the epitome of badassedness- Jon has now come into his own XD

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  • 2 weeks later...

Honestly, I don't get the "D&D hates Stannis!" paranoia. It's ridiculous. To someone, like myself, who doesn't hate or love Stannis, the show hasn't gypped him in any way whatsoever or made him look like a villain. He looks like a hardass who has a great sidekick who gives him good advice and a witch that doesn't a always. He's not a saint, and he sometimes makes bad decisions. He's also not evil, and sometimes makes good decisions...but that's EVERY leader- no one is perfect. They do a good job of showing how Stannis' rigidity affects him and his decisions, and how Davos and Melisandre know how to get him to bend.

This conspiracy theory talk gets old. He'll get his hero moment, we've already seen it in the promo.

They make him beg for sex on the fucking beach and use words like 'tavern slut'.

And his hero moment was 60% really. You didn't get the feel as a show watcher that he saved the Wall, more like he cam and stomped a dead enemy. Sort of. It was still good but there was no name chanting no grandeur of the sort D@D give other characters.

And he doesn't look half as rough and tough in the show as you find his description in the books.

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They make him beg for sex on the fucking beach and use words like 'tavern slut'.

And his hero moment was 60% really. You didn't get the feel as a show watcher that he saved the Wall, more like he cam and stomped a dead enemy. Sort of. It was still good but there was no name chanting no grandeur of the sort D@D give other characters.

And he doesn't look half as rough and tough in the show as you find his description in the books.

I know, right? Just look at the way they showed him asking Jon what he would do! Stannis would never ask advice from Jon. Obviously they are trying to make him look too stupid to know what to do!

And also the way he called Ned "honorable", I mean, why would he do that? He never calls him honorable in the books! It's whitewashing, I tell you!

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I know, right? Just look at the way they showed him asking Jon what he would do! Stannis would never ask advice from Jon. Obviously they are trying to make him look too stupid to know what to do!

And also the way he called Ned "honorable", I mean, why would he do that? He never calls him honorable in the books! It's whitewashing, I tell you!

Stop reacting so stupidly. What's your defense of Stannis begging for sex on the beach, or burning Florent for being an infidel and not, i don't know, a traitor trying to send his daughter to his enemy?

And he does speak well of Ned in the books, aside from the 'he was no friend of mine' because of his little brother complex which sometimes shines through.

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Stop reacting so stupidly. What's your defense of Stannis begging for sex on the beach, or burning Florent for being an infidel and not, i don't know, a traitor trying to send his daughter to his enemy?

And he does speak well of Ned in the books, aside from the 'he was no friend of mine' because of his little brother complex which sometimes shines through.

Who cares whether he asked for sex or not? Have you seem his wife? His daughter? I don't blame him. They've made him a bit more human...I don't see how that detracts from his hardened nature.

How does one come up with percentage of how much one "looks" like a hero? He had one of the most badass entrances in the show. He got his moment of grandeur. Only someone looking for something to criticize would find fault with it.

Melisandre said he needed to burn them, so he burned them. She has his ear, he listens to her and trusts her more than he should. That's true even in the books, they are simply demonstrating it here.

He's a hard-ass, but he's not some god. He's made mistakes. The show hasn't ruined his character, because he's the same way in the books. Maybe they have added emphasis on the religion part of it, but that makes sense in this case.

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Who cares whether he asked for sex or not? Have you seem his wife? His daughter? I don't blame him. They've made him a bit more human...I don't see how that detracts from his hardened nature.

How does one come up with percentage of how much one "looks" like a hero? He had one of the most badass entrances in the show. He got his moment of grandeur. Only someone looking for something to criticize would find fault with it.

Melisandre said he needed to burn them, so he burned them. She has his ear, he listens to her and trusts her more than he should. That's true even in the books, they are simply demonstrating it here.

He's a hard-ass, but he's not some god. He's made mistakes. The show hasn't ruined his character, because he's the same way in the books. Maybe they have added emphasis on the religion part of it, but that makes sense in this case.

Just.... No.

'Made him more human' has got to be the shoddiest excuse for making Stannis beg for sex. Stannis does not fucking beg for sex it is not in his nature. This is me justifying the show makers sending Ned to a brothel to screw whores because 'its human' as it is indeed.

Hard to believe how you are disregarding one of the main parts of Stannis' character - the fact he's extremely 'conservative' about women and sex - to defend the producers' disgusting scenes.

And Stannis doesn't follow Mel. This is another pathetic point made against him. He uses her powers for his own ends. And they didn't just add emphasis on the religious part they made him somewhat of a zealot which he isn't in the books.

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Just.... No.

'Made him more human' has got to be the shoddiest excuse for making Stannis beg for sex. Stannis does not fucking beg for sex it is not in his nature. This is me justifying the show makers sending Ned to a brothel to screw whores because 'its human' as it is indeed.

Hard to believe how you are disregarding one of the main parts of Stannis' character - the fact he's extremely 'conservative' about women and sex - to defend the producers' disgusting scenes.

And Stannis doesn't follow Mel. This is another pathetic point made against him. He uses her powers for his own ends. And they didn't just add emphasis on the religious part they made him somewhat of a zealot which he isn't in the books.

You can't play with fire like Stannis does and not get burned. That's literally what he's doing by trusting Melisandre as much as he does, and it's costing him.

Jon makes several comments about how Stannis' queen is really Melisandre, and how she has "Queensguards" while he has not Kingsguards. Whether you want to admit it, from Jon's POV, it's very obvious that Stannis has been somewhat emasculated by Melisandre because Jon thinks the real power lies with her.

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There's not much difference between show and book Stannis. Those of you who are saying that Stannis has been butchered need to go back and compare the scenes that have occurred so far with what Stannis' material was till ASOS. The unsullied have the same reaction to Stannis by now that book fans have.

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There's not much difference between show and book Stannis. Those of you who are saying that Stannis has been butchered need to go back and compare the scenes that have occurred so far with what Stannis' material was till ASOS. The unsullied have the same reaction to Stannis by now that book fans have.

Because book Stannis totally uses words like tavern slut, bangs Melisandre in the most easily visible and uncivilized places and ways and burns innocents for being 'infidels'.

You can't play with fire like Stannis does and not get burned. That's literally what he's doing by trusting Melisandre as much as he does, and it's costing him.

Jon makes several comments about how Stannis' queen is really Melisandre, and how she has "Queensguards" while he has not Kingsguards. Whether you want to admit it, from Jon's POV, it's very obvious that Stannis has been somewhat emasculated by Melisandre because Jon thinks the real power lies with her.

I'm starting to think you haven't bothered reading Stannis at all. 'If you play with fire you get burned' Stannis plays it sensible and that's why he's alive after 5 books. And LOL. That is just laughable. Jon remarks in a grand total of a few sentences that Mel is really his queen (quite obviously a reference to the fact that its known Stannis doesn't like his real wife at all and Mel is pretty hot) so that's established fact?

How has Stannis been emasculated by Melisandre? Unless the meaning of the word has been officially changed, he hasn't. At all. Stannis doesn't have a Kingsguard wearing pretty clothes and yet we see in the TWOW chapter he does keep guards with him (they take out the Karstark guy).

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I'm starting to think you haven't bothered reading Stannis at all. 'If you play with fire you get burned' Stannis plays it sensible and that's why he's alive after 5 books. And LOL. That is just laughable. Jon remarks in a grand total of a few sentences that Mel is really his queen (quite obviously a reference to the fact that its known Stannis doesn't like his real wife at all and Mel is pretty hot) so that's established fact?

How has Stannis been emasculated by Melisandre? Unless the meaning of the word has been officially changed, he hasn't. At all. Stannis doesn't have a Kingsguard wearing pretty clothes and yet we see in the TWOW chapter he does keep guards with him (they take out the Karstark guy).

You're right, I haven't read him at all. He's not a POV character, hard to read his chapters.

But I did read all of the chapters which he's in. And all of them give a pretty clear view of him. And I'm not the one missing something if you think Melisandre doesn't have any power over Stannis and that he's the one using her.

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You're right, I haven't read him at all. He's not a POV character, hard to read his chapters.

But I did read all of the chapters which he's in. And all of them give a pretty clear view of him. And I'm not the one missing something if you think Melisandre doesn't have any power over Stannis and that he's the one using her.

And after your insanely ridiculous argument you come up with a bit of sarcasm. Typical. Ofcourse by his chapters I mean the chapters he's in. Seriously lol. If Mel was in control of Stannis half his army would be burning.

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And after your insanely ridiculous argument you come up with a bit of sarcasm. Typical. Ofcourse by his chapters I mean the chapters he's in. Seriously lol. If Mel was in control of Stannis half his army would be burning.

My insanely ridiculous argument that the show hasn't significantly changed Stannis' character?

And I didn't write the stuff, Martin did. Even Davos dislikes the influence that Melisandre has over Stannis, and is horrified by some of the things she does. Jon remarks that she is Stannis' real queen. How does any of this show that Stannis is the one in charge? He's not. He may have started out thinking that he could use her for his own purposes, but in reality, she has been using him for her own purposes. They spell it out in the text. Believe what you want, but the show hasn't butchered his character in the slightest.

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