Does Benjen know who Jon's parents are?

[watson98]

The title pretty much explains itself...

Where was Benjen during Roberts rebellion?
Did Ned tell him afterwards?
Does he know about Jons' parentage?

[The Human Abstract]

Maybe it was as hard to locate that guy then as it is now.

[sj4iy]

The title pretty much explains itself...

Where was Benjen during Roberts rebellion?

He disappeared.

It's a habit of his.

[Skoboe]

I doubt it.

If Jon is Brandon and Ashara's child then he is the rightful Lord of Winterfell. Ned couldn't even tell his wife that so he wouldn't have told someone who could use it against him if things soured between the two.

If Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's child then the answer is still no. Benjen gave up all loyalty to family when he took the black, his loyalty now is to the NW. It follows that Maester Aemon would have been passed that information at some point in the last 16 years.

If Jon is Ned and Ashara's (or Wylla's, or the fisherman's daughter's, or any other woman) then there was no real need to keep it secret at all...so why would he tell Benjen and not Catelyn?

[The Human Abstract]

Also it's possible he forgot anyway when he died.

[Elkrider]

I doubt it.

If Jon is Brandon and Ashara's child then he is the rightful Lord of Winterfell. Ned couldn't even tell his wife that so he wouldn't have told someone who could use it against him if things soured between the two.

If Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's child then the answer is still no. Benjen gave up all loyalty to family when he took the black, his loyalty now is to the NW. It follows that Maester Aemon would have been passed that information at some point in the last 16 years.

If Jon is Ned and Ashara's (or Wylla's, or the fisherman's daughter's, or any other woman) then there was no real need to keep it secret at all...so why would he tell Benjen and not Catelyn?

If he is Brandon and Ashara's child, then he is definitely a bastard (because they weren't married) and has no claim on anything. And then there would be no reason to not speak of his parentage. And that's leaving aside the fact that Brandon died more than a year before his birth.

Depending on how close Benjen was to Lyanna, he might have been involved in any plot she had to run away, or might know more about her true feelings regarding Rhaegar, which would make it easier to guess who Jon's parents were.

Also, he has to know that just coming home with a bastard is uncharacteristic for Ned, so if nothing else, he'd be suspicious. He might not know for sure, but he might suspect things.

[Skoboe]

If he is Brandon and Ashara's child, then he is definitely a bastard (because they weren't married) and has no claim on anything. And then there would be no reason to not speak of his parentage. And that's leaving aside the fact that Brandon died more than a year before his birth.

Depending on how close Benjen was to Lyanna, he might have been involved in any plot she had to run away, or might know more about her true feelings regarding Rhaegar, which would make it easier to guess who Jon's parents were.

Also, he has to know that just coming home with a bastard is uncharacteristic for Ned, so if nothing else, he'd be suspicious. He might not know for sure, but he might suspect things.

Bastards have been legitimized in the book...two of them have even become Kings!

Why was Cersei so viscious in eliminating Robert's bastards? She knew that all it would take would be a push from an opposing faction to legitimize any one of them and she would have lost the game early.

Not saying that was going to be the case with Jon and Ned, but they were just coming out of a civil war and Ned was just forced to marry the girl who loved his brother.

[A Man Reads]

I've always wondered about this. There is some evidence in the text that Benjen knew or suspected Jon's parentage. What little there is is inconclusive, however.

But for the most part, I can't imagine Ned pretending to have a bastard and Benjen not figuring it out. You can hide something like that from your new wife and your castle servants. A younger brother is different. Especially one who knew Lyanna so well and was at the Harrenhal tourney.

Though I don't believe Ned would tell Benjen, I do believe Benjen would have figured it out. Maybe he did. In either case, he went to the Wall soon after.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I think there is enough in the books to speculate that he could know. There is no basis to say he would tell maester Aemon. In Jojens story to Bran he says that Lyanna cried when Rhaegar played his song and that Benjen made fun of her for it. We also saw in Brans vision Lyanna and Benjen playing together, and it stand to reason that Lyanna would have had some trouble getting full plate armor on by herself.

[A Man Reads]

I think there is enough in the books to speculate that he could know. There is no basis to say he would tell maester Aemon. In Jojens story to Bran he says that Lyanna cried when Rhaegar played his song and that Benjen made fun of her for it. We also saw in Brans vision Lyanna and Benjen playing together, and it stand to reason that Lyanna would have had some trouble getting full plate armor on by herself.

Yes, certainly enough to speculate. They were definitely close; and the armor point is a good one. Benjen's conversation with Jon at the feast in Winterfell seems to be deliberately open-ended on this point too.

It also provides a reason for having Benjen disappear so early on in the story. And for staying lost.

[watson98]

I think there is enough in the books to speculate that he could know. There is no basis to say he would tell maester Aemon. In Jojens story to Bran he says that Lyanna cried when Rhaegar played his song and that Benjen made fun of her for it. We also saw in Brans vision Lyanna and Benjen playing together, and it stand to reason that Lyanna would have had some trouble getting full plate armor on by herself.

Armour??

[A Man Reads]

Armour??

At the Harrenhal tourney. If she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree.

[watson98]

At the Harrenhal tourney. If she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree.

Oh, I haven't heard that theory sorry.

[MooseHB]

If an explanation for Benjen's taking the Black has ever been given, I am unfamiliar; please enlighten if there has been one.

In the absence of any previous explanation of Benjen joining the NW, the knowledge of the real identity of his bastard nephew would certainly explain the decision.

The closeness f Benjen and Lyanna would also indicate that he wuld be most aware of Lyanna's true intentions regarding Rhaegar, and this might be additional knowledge that would help him figure out Ned's deception.

It really seems Jon's status as Ned's bastard is really emphasized in aGoT. Maybe even into aCoK (I have an ebook of the first five books installments all in one). When I get a chance I will look for citations (iPad got washed when I was five chapters from the end; I did get to finish on my kids' iPods).

[Torrhen Blackwood]

For some reason I get the feeling Benjen knew about Jon's true parentage. I started my first AGOT re-read a couple days ago and for no particular reason I felt like Ben understood and emphasized with Jon more than anyone except Arya. There was a dialogue between the two of them at the Winterfell feast when Jon is drunk. Ben refers to him as "son" in an off-handed way, as older dudes sometimes do to younger guys. Jon fires back with "I am not your son". To which Ben replied in a sad, melancholy tone "Mores the pity". He clearly sees Jon as a Stark, in looks and mannerisms. It seems like if Ben would of chosen a different life path than the NW he would have been proud to have a son just like Jon and I think one of the reasons is Ben & Lyanna's relationship. Jon looks and acts like a Stark more than any of the Ned's children and Ben probably sees the last living remnants of Lyanna in him.

[watson98]

This weird idea just jumped into my head:

Is Benjen Jons' father??

I don't believe it, but...

[A Man Reads]

. . . There was a dialogue between the two of them at the Winterfell feast when Jon is drunk. Ben refers to him as "son" in an off-handed way, as older dudes sometimes do to younger guys. Jon fires back with "I am not your son". To which Ben replied in a sad, melancholy tone "Mores the pity".

The feast is one point I've focused on too. And I have far more questions than answers. It drives me nuts! :idea:

"Benjen Stark gave Jon a long look. 'Don't you normally eat at the table with your brothers?'

'Most times,' Jon answered in a flat voice. 'But tonight Lady Stark thought it might give insult to the royal family to seat a bastard among them.'

"I see." His uncle glanced over his shoulder at the raised table at the far end of the hall. 'My brother does not seem very festive tonight."

What is the long look about?

Why does Benjen mention Jon's brothers at the table but not his father?

Does it signify anything that Benjen calls Ned "my brother" instead of "your father"?

"'The queen is angry too,' Jon told his uncle in a low, quiet voice. 'Father took the king down to the crypts this afternoon. The queen didn't want him to go.'

Benjen gave Jon a careful, measuring look. 'You don't miss much, do you,, Jon? we could use a man like you on the wall.'"

What is the careful, measuring look for?

Lyanna is buried down there. Is that what this is about?

Once more, Benjen avoids the the part about "Jon's father."

"'Take me with you when you go back to the Wall,' Jon said in a sudden rush. 'Father will give me leave to go if you ask him, I know he will.'

Uncle Benjen studied his face carefully. 'The Wall is a hard place for a boy, Jon.'"

What is the studying look about?

Jon mentions his father and Benjen's response focuses on the wall. Again.

"Jon felt anger rise inside him. 'I am not your son!'

'More's the pity.' He put a hand on Jon's shoulder. [ . . . ]

I'm dying to know what "more's the pity" that means.

...

If R+L = J and Benjen knows about it, he seems to be testing Jon. He certainly seems more interested in Jon than the other Stark children.

But he could just as easily be interested in Jon for the Night's Watch.

I go round and round on these passages.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

During the Winterfell's feast, when Robert's there, Benjen notices that Jon isn't with the family, at the main table, as he expects he should be. Then, he looks at the main table. Who's there besides Ned, who he notices to be distressed that night? Robert.

[A Man Reads]

During the Winterfell's feast, when Robert's there, Benjen notices that Jon isn't with the family, at the main table, as he expects he should be. Then, he looks at the main table. Who's there besides Ned, who he notices to be distressed that night? Robert.

You think Ned is keeping Jon away from Robert?

Or is Benjen noting Robert's presence, he who famously despises all Targaryens?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

You think Ned is keeping Jon away from Robert?

Or is Benjen noting Robert's presence, he who famously despises all Targaryens?

Could be both.

Benjen noticing that Ned isn't happy about keeping Robert around with Jon so close.