Dothraki: The most Villainous Culture?

[Snow Dottir]

First of all, I just mentioned the Sioux in passing as being part of the influence

Yes, and you do realize that they are no longer roaming the plains and attacking other settlement, right? The way they lived 300 years ago is extinct. That's my point regarding the Dothraki. And I've always been talking about the Dothraki here. I just mentioned the Sioux in passing as one of the culture that influenced the design of the Dothraki and you are letting it completely derail you.

Beside, the Sioux are nowhere near what the Dothraki are. There are just hints of Sioux and other native americans in the Dothraki, they are more like the Hun (circa Atila) and the Mongols (circa Genghis Khan). Which side they'll lean is up in the air. The Hun eventually got exterminated and the mongol conquered the lands and then got assimilated.

Derailed? OH yeah. A serious, serious head in my hands, SMH moment.

I don't want to ask what country you're from but you seem to have a severe hatred of all things Tribal.

I'll argue all day about the Dothraki.

When you start talking about how REAL historical Trbes with their own language and culture deserved cultural extinction and how the Sioux "no longer roam the plains and attack settelments" (( the Sioux not roaming the plains is a "Good" thing?? ))...It's not an accurate description of the Sioux OR who the "bad neighbors" really were in that scenario!?

Not even going to get into that. Not here, not today.

yeah, I'm gonna continue being derailed on that one.

[Snow Dottir]

I see more indignation in your post than his, which was pretty funny.

This is really where you lost me.

Since I was responding to 2 post 1. "Really???? Really!"

and 2. "How bout I come rape your Grandma and steal yer laptop!!!"

Oh thats just Hilarious ! :rolleyes:

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I don't know what you mean; I love having raping slavers for neighbours.

[Snow Dottir]

I don't know what you mean; I love having raping slavers for neighbours.

Obviously.

Especially since they are not "Villians"

Ex::: "You're pock marked, fat and a nosebreather with brittle, thin hair and yellow teeth" I never said you were ugly!!!!

[Blue_Bard]

Evil =/= Worst Neighbors.

The Dothraki have their own standards of honor, which are comprehensible to other cultures and can be adapted to. It's possible to deal with a Dothraki with some level of reason. That makes them less evil than, say, the Ironborn or Ghiscari, who are cruel for the sake of cruelty.

However, no matter who you are the Dothraki will extort or kill you if you are near them. The Ghiscari will leave you alone if you are not their slave (they don't even go on slaving expeditions, they leave that to others). Being stronger than the Ironborn, the Dothraki are worse neighbors.

If I were ranking the cultures in order of evil, it would go

Ghiscari

Ironborn

Dothraki

But in order of worst cultures to live next to, it's pretty much the opposite order.

[A rose by any other name]

Bad neighbors, yes. Evil, depends on who you are. Evil is a completely relative concept. I think the OP's negative stance on the Dothraki stems from an unfamiliarity with nomadic/tribal peoples and their way of life. People tend to react negatively when faced with situations that contrast with what they're used to. As someone who's ancestors are both Cossack and Khalkha Mongol, I don't look at the Dothraki as "villainous" or "evil"... they're almost 100% based on the Mongols (you know, that "parasitic" tribe that numbered in the millions that clearly managed to support itself...weird.) , and my childhood is full of stories about warring bands of horsemen.

The cool part about those cultures (and I know that this will hold true for the Dothraki) is that they still exist. It may not be in the original form, but the culture and lifestyle is very much alive. Just because a people decides to live differently than the rest of society doesn't mean they wont last or need to be changed. I think that the Dothraki culture will be able to last as long as it's people hold on to it. Besides, there is not one unchanged society IRL or in GRRM's world. Cultures adapt and grow, allowing their people to keep their identity while keeping up with the passing of time. If the Dothraki love being Dothraki, then they will continue to be Dothraki.

Shout out to atiggerx93 and Snow Dottir... you guys have made excellent points.

[Snow Dottir]

Bad neighbors, yes. Evil, depends on who you are. Evil is a completely relative concept. I think the OP's negative stance on the Dothraki stems from an unfamiliarity with nomadic/tribal peoples and their way of life. People tend to react negatively when faced with situations that contrast with what they're used to. As someone who's ancestors are both Cossack and Khalkha Mongol, I don't look at the Dothraki as "villainous" or "evil"... they're almost 100% based on the Mongols (you know, that "parasitic" tribe that numbered in the millions that clearly managed to support itself...weird.) , and my childhood is full of stories about warring bands of horsemen.

The cool part about those cultures (and I know that this will hold true for the Dothraki) is that they still exist. It may not be in the original form, but the culture and lifestyle is very much alive. Just because a people decides to live differently than the rest of society doesn't mean they wont last or need to be changed. I think that the Dothraki culture will be able to last as long as it's people hold on to it. Besides, there is not one unchanged society IRL or in GRRM's world. Cultures adapt and grow, allowing their people to keep their identity while keeping up with the passing of time. If the Dothraki love being Dothraki, then they will continue to be Dothraki.

^ This is called "dropping the mic".

Well done :)

[Mal Malenkirk]

The cool part about those cultures (and I know that this will hold true for the Dothraki) is that they still exist

The Dothraki are not a stand in for every nomadic tribe that ever existed. The number of tribal cultures from the real world that compares to the Dothraki is extremely limited. And those few are most definitely all gone.

Unless you are telling me that today's nomads in mongolia are just the same as Genghis Khan's riders. Then sure, they still exist. In that case I am a true Frank because I live in a big house and am a decent fencer.

[A rose by any other name]

Mal Malenkirk, I believe you might have missed the part about how all cultures adapt and change...or was my last comment a TL;DR situation for you?

[Mal Malenkirk]

I have no idea what TL;DR situation is.

And once you've adapted and changed enough, well, you are not the same. That should be self evident.

Anyway, I'm talking Dothraki. Who are those cultures from the real world that strongly ressemble the Dothraki and still exist today?

[Arakan]

The Dorhraki and Ironborn as described in the books are the cliché of the Mongols and Vikings, how a medieval monk would have seen them.

The real Mongols or Vikings had much more to them than this bunch of almost cartoonish nomads.

The Dothraki remind me much more of pirates than a functional society (that is because with their destructive way of life they are destined to be exterminated). To compare these parasitic Pirates of the prairie with real world nomadic cultures is almost ridiculous. they are more like marching locusts than anything else.

[The other prince]

quoted wrong poster

[The Imperator]

I love the Dothraki.

I love the tribal customs, the nomadic lifestyle, everything.

I was involved with a group called Tuchux ( not SCA but we went to sca events sometimes) which remind me very much of the Dothraki....they are so similar I always wondered if Grrm was familiar with the SCA or had ever been to Pennsic (a HUGE ren-fair/war in pennsylvania every August for like the past 40 years )

It's a matter of perspective, I always defend the Ironborn in post like these too...but I have a serious fondness for the horselords.

Why should they have regards for anyone outside their circle?? That's what a Tribe is. (the ones that last longest anyway)

I really like the scenes of Vaes Dothrak with all the statues of stolen Gods everywhere....sue me. :smoking:

The Tuchux are a bunch of raping, slave-owning barbarians? Damn, boy, you have some weird tastes.

[Snow Dottir]

The Tuchux are a bunch of raping, slave-owning barbarians? Damn, boy, you have some weird tastes.

Ha! :eek:

Well to the outside world they may look that way but that's not exactly true. In "The Nomads of Gor" The "Tuchuks"(thats the spelling in the book) were "wagon people" they had big ox-like animals called "Bosk", ect... similar.

[Lopsang]

I think you are all missing the point. The Dothraki are not great, but the irony of it all is that they are better in many ways than the "civilized" cultures of Westeros and perhaps the Free Cities.

The Dothraki have cultural and social restraints on violence. Vaes Dothrak allows no bloodshed! Imagine would would have happened in AGOM if the same rules applied in King's Landing. Coup d'etats are all but impossible in Dothraki culture, or at least one would have to be willing to fly in the face of the social restraints in place if they wanted to throw one there. Violence is prohibited by more than just laws (oft ignored) and the fear of being reprianded as in Westeros.

Their prime goal, also, is not to gain power, land, and influence. They simply seek monetary and logistical gain. Instead of declaring war on everyone and overpowering them, violence takes a backseat to tribute. The Dothraki would rather just extract tribute from places when needed, and go about their business again. This could never happen in Westeros! The Dothraki would simply take everybody's land and try to become an empire or in some form, bloodshed would be involved. It's not the noblest of things, of course, better yet would be for none of this to ever happen at all, but the "barbarism" of the Dothraki ironically reveals the pungent evil across the narrow sea.

There is more to mention, but read in between the lines. The Dothraki, Ironborn, Wildlings, and other cultures in the book have their fair share of savagery, but you can never forget that Westeros' civility is only a sheen, and underneath, they are the real barbarians. That's the point I GRRM wants to make. Read deeply into the text as you continue your re=reading and you may be able to extrapolate new things about the other cultures.

[The Imperator]

Ha! :eek:

Well to the outside world they may look that way but that's not exactly true. In "The Nomads of Gor" The "Tuchuks"(thats the spelling in the book) were "wagon people" they had big ox-like animals called "Bosk", ect... similar.

It is exactly true. lol And don't randomly bring up a book that has nothing to do with the topic.

[Taenqyrhae]

The problem with the Ironborn is that they ARE a good imitation of the Vikings. Things is, the Vikings weren't a people or civilization, it was the term for the people who lived near the sea and went raiding in longboats in the off-seasons. The Vikings were Norse, but not all the Norse were vikings. The Norse farmed, they fished, they traded, and they built permanent settlements. Some of them were part-time sea raiders. The Ironborn are Vikings who are missing the rest of their nation.

Ditto with the Dothraki. They are clearly inspired by the Mongol hordes, but they don't appear to do any of the things that made the Mongols successful. The Mongols incorporated conquests into their empire, set up local governors to tax them, and they supported their own population through nomadic herding. Could you imagine a Dothraki goat herder?

[John Doe]

This shows why Dany is such a hypocrite. She despises the people in Slavers' Bay, but thinks as Drogo as her sun and stars, refers to herself as Khaleesi and puts little warrior bells in her hair because they are so cool.

[BitsOfBrains]

Yeah I would say they are the closest thing to an "evil" culture in ASOIAF.

I mean they contribute absolutely NOTHING to the world. At least the Ironborn build boats and mine metal and do some trading so even though they are a net negative they aren't COMPLETELY worthless human beings incapable of anything worthwhile.

Seriously ALL the Dothraki do is mooch off the world in the most violent and destructive way possible. All they do is wreck everything, destroy lives, and have no desire to improve themselves. There is a reason they still call Daenerys "Khaleesi".

[Wmarshal]

It is a tie between them and the ghiscari.