The Wolves Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Jaime's biggest crime is fathering bastards with the queen. That alone was a reason for war and he knew it he just didn't care about the smallfolk that would be slaughtered, the homes destroyed, the pain people would endure, the women that would be raped and abused etc....Jaime's biggest crime was him not caring about the death and destruction his actions would bring unto Westerosi and that's why I hate and despise him and will never forgive him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I always thought that Jamie was officially ordered by Joffrey to help Tywin. Wasn't Lewyn Martell also commanding Dornish forces in the Rebellion? I was under the impression the King could order his KGs to do pretty much anything. Execute Lord Paramounts, beat little girls, murder a Hand of the King, or command an army. So in the eyes of Westeros, it wasn't a crime. It was morally grey as hell, sure, but not breaking the law. Only an order like that could come from Robert, and Jaime also admits to not having a lot of care for the boy at any rate. Lewyn was actually given command of forces by the mad king in powerful claimant to the throne, not the kings underage heir in a dispute between families. Robert commands Ned to cease hostilities and Jaime goes to his father, clear violation of his order, to up the hostility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForgottenKnight Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Banging his sister for years and fathering three bastard children with her. Kinda led to all of his problems and poor choices in the novels. His quest to bring back Tyrion is what led to his eventual redemption and finding his humanity again. Although he didn't seem too upset that Joffrey died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biter the Gallant Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I always thought that Jamie was officially ordered by Joffrey to help Tywin. Wasn't Lewyn Martell also commanding Dornish forces in the Rebellion? I was under the impression the King could order his KGs to do pretty much anything. Execute Lord Paramounts, beat little girls, murder a Hand of the King, or command an army. So in the eyes of Westeros, it wasn't a crime. It was morally grey as hell, sure, but not breaking the law. But Robert was still alive and well when Jaime attacked Ned and left the capital to join his father's army. After the coup of Cersei his situation became legalized quickly, but if things turn otherwise in the capital, Jaime would be in serious trouble, very likely considered not just a simple rebel, but also deserter of the Kingsguard (though naturally, that would seem unsignificant compared to the incestous relationship with the queen, and presenting their children as Robert's ones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Stannis and LF had alreafy discovered them. We don't know how, though. But if you keep doing twincest with the Queen, you are bound to get discovered by someone somewhere. That ain't gonna end well. Jaime should have realized this - hence, his biggest crime is his foolishness, by continuing the twincest. Well, they've kept it a secret for almost fifteen years, that really has some merits. Of course, Varys knew it because he had mute children hearing everything from inside the walls, but it's not like they could have counted on it. How Littlefinger, Jon and Stannis knew, and whether they could prove it or not, we don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brute of Bracken Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 Jaime's biggest crime is fathering bastards with the queen. That alone was a reason for war and he knew it he just didn't care about the smallfolk that would be slaughtered, the homes destroyed, the pain people would endure, the women that would be raped and abused etc....Jaime's biggest crime was him not caring about the death and destruction his actions would bring unto Westerosi and that's why I hate and despise him and will never forgive him. I doubt if he thought about the consequences of his actions before doing them. Jaime was foolish, and that was his crime. A lot of people do foolish things, but unfortunately for Jaime, his foolish actions led to disastrous consequences for the realm, He is not all that different from a common man as far as morality is concerned - I don't despise Jaime. I just think he made some bad choices . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brute of Bracken Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 We don't know how, though. Well, they've kept it a secret for almost fifteen years, that really has some merits. Of course, Varys knew it because he had mute children hearing everything from inside the walls, but it's not like they could have counted on it. How Littlefinger, Jon and Stannis knew, and whether they could prove it or not, we don't know. That's an interesting point. He was careful to keep it hidden, but obviously not careful enough. He thought he could take a risk and get away with it - and he almost did, for fifteen years. But is the risk worth taking, when the lives of all he loves, and the fate of the entire realm is in question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I doubt if he thought about the consequences of his actions before doing them. Jaime was foolish, and that was his crime. A lot of people do foolish things, but unfortunately for Jaime, his foolish actions led to disastrous consequences for the realm, He is not all that different from a common man as far as morality is concerned - I don't despise Jaime. I just think he made some bad choices .He knew he even joked to Cersei about fighting Robert calling it "the war for Cersei's cunt" and Jaime had over a decade to realize what consequences his actions would cause. Anybody would know that a war would erupt with the queen passing off her bastards with her brother as the heirs to the throne would be a cause for war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brute of Bracken Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 He knew he even joked to Cersei about fighting Robert calling it "the war for Cersei's cunt" and Jaime had over a decade to realize what consequences his actions would cause. Anybody would know that a war would erupt with the queen passing off her bastards with her brother as the heirs to the throne would be a cause for war. Jaime was joking, foolishly deluding himself that he won't ever get caught. I still doubt if he ever considered it as a realistic possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 The cuckolding is by far the worst. It allowed the Wo5K to occur(. Finding Cersei an abortion doctor/tansy tea distributor to prevent Robert from having a legitimate heir is close *Pushing Bran out the window gave an impetus for Catelyn to arrest Tyrion. However war is inevitable if Ned/Stannis go public with their "suspicions" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 My biggest gripe with Jaime is his role in the Tysha incident. I don't blame Tyrion one bit for wanting to kill him for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyBanana Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Only an order like that could come from Robert, and Jaime also admits to not having a lot of care for the boy at any rate. Lewyn was actually given command of forces by the mad king in powerful claimant to the throne, not the kings underage heir in a dispute between families. Robert commands Ned to cease hostilities and Jaime goes to his father, clear violation of his order, to up the hostility. You're right. I didn't realize it was about him leaving KL to go to his father and not his role in the war later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Becoming Cersei's 'yes'-man, allowing himself to be manipulated by her and doing whatever the fuck pleased her even though Cersei is much dumber than him, a lot more cruel, vain and selfish. Being blind of all of it because of teh luv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Its still his biggest crime irrespective of his reasoning. The fact is that he (and Cersei) incited the situation which lead to throwing Bran from the tower. So while he may have had utilitarian reasoning for what he did, there is.still no real defence for.it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Jaime's biggest crime was lying to Tyrion about Tysha, and allowing the resulting horror to happen at all. A vile, craven thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangover of the Morning Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Why people assume that if Cersei/Jaime were discovered at Winterfell or prior to that it would automatically lead to war? Who would raise their banners for them and their bastard children? They got away with it in the books only because Robert died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 My biggest gripe with Jaime is his role in the Tysha incident. I don't blame Tyrion one bit for wanting to kill him for it. I am always surprised when people act all confused for why Tyrion is angry/hates Jaime in ADWD, but yeah that was pretty goddamn horrible of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Jaime's lie about Tysha did not lead to Tysha's gangrape, only to Tyrion's participation in it. And about that Tyrion should blame himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Jaime's lie about Tysha did not lead to Tysha's gangrape, only to Tyrion's participation in it. And about that Tyrion should blame himself.It lead Tyrion to believe the one woman that ever really loved him was a set-up. It changed Tyrion's entire outlook on life, especially women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 The things he does for love:* affronting his Lord father out of love for Cersei and glory.* incest and cuckolding the King, out of love for his sister.* Killing Aerys out of love for the people and his father.* saving Bran, out of love of honour.* pushing Bran, out of love of his sister and children.* attacking Ned, abandoning his post as KG and prosecuting a war out of love of his brother.* freeing a convicted Regicide and kinslayer out of love of his brother.* threatening Edmure's baby out of love for peace.* relinquishing command of his effective campaign in the RL out of love of Brienne. Love is the death of duty. :dunce: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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