why no VS armour?

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Yes, blades. Those feature sharp edges, where Valyrian Steel has its advantages. Which armor features a sharp edge?

As I understand it, the tougher the metal, the sharper you can make the blade without leaving it easily damaged. Surely then this tough and light metal would be effective as armour?

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have a VS sword than a set of armour.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Yes, blades. Those feature sharp edges, where Valyrian Steel has its advantages. Which armor features a sharp edge?

The fact that the steal is lighter would definitely be useful. I don't claim to be an expert metalurgist or armorer or anything but it seems like saying better steal would not be useful cannot be accurate. I know armor includes padding to take the blow, it seems like you would want hard steal, and the blades keep their edge better because they are harder. I do know that much is a fact because I know how axes are done, the edge is made out of the hardest metal possible and the rest of the head is a softer metal to absorb the blow.

[KING-OF-WINTERFELL]

It'd be extremely expensive, and not exactly better than regular armour.

For one, the fact that it's lighter would make it less useful against blunt weapons, which is traditionally the type of weapon used for full sets of heavy armour anyways.

Then by you're logic knights in the middle ages should have worn iron amour. Instead in the late middle ages they wore light steel armour.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

As I understand it, the tougher the metal, the sharper you can make the blade without leaving it easily damaged. Surely then this tough and light metal would be effective as armour?

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have a VS sword than a set of armour.

The fact that the steal is lighter would definitely be useful. I don't claim to be an expert metalurgist or armorer or anything but it seems like saying better steal would not be useful cannot be accurate. I know armor includes padding to take the blow, it seems like you would want hard steal, and the blades keep their edge better because they are harder. I do know that much is a fact because I know how axes are done, the edge is made out of the hardest metal possible and the rest of the head is a softer metal to absorb the blow.

You are both mistaken in assuming that there is only good metal and bad metal. That's a fallacy. Different sttels with a different amount of carbon or other metals mixed in behave differently, each with it's own set of strengths and weaknesses.

For a proper blade, you need a certain stiffness, a certain flexibility, a certain hardness, and the ability to be hammered and sharpened into an edge, as well as the ability to be hardened (depended on the amount of carbon).

For proper armor, you need a different stiffness, a different flexibilty, a different hardness, don't need an edge and not hardened. This vastly different array of traits requires a vastly different material.

For different tasks, different steels show their qualities. For blades, a good armor steel is useless, the other way round as well.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

You are both mistaken in assuming that there is only good metal and bad metal. That's a fallacy. Different sttels with a different amount of carbon or other metals mixed in behave differently, each with it's own set of strengths and weaknesses.

For a proper blade, you need a certain stiffness, a certain flexibility, a certain hardness, and the ability to be hammered and sharpened into an edge, as well as the ability to be hardened (depended on the amount of carbon).

For proper armor, you need a different stiffness, a different flexibilty, a different hardness, don't need an edge and not hardened. This vastly different array of traits requires a vastly different material.

For different tasks, different steels show their qualities. For blades, a good armor steel is useless, the other way round as well.

Fair enough then, I'm bowing out of the debate.

[KING-OF-WINTERFELL]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeGv_PU4ZkA

Go to 27 mins and it explains what bright blue eyes was talking about (different steels different applications).

[league of blooDraven]

Yes, blades. Those feature sharp edges, where Valyrian Steel has its advantages. Which armor features a sharp edge?

Nope, It's pure magic.

The Japanese jumped on the chance to import european armor, and for good reason: It was way, way better. In metallurgy, weapon- and armorsmithing, Europe and the Levante were superior. By a far margin.

GRRM has said that Damascus steel is the best real-world analog to Valyrian steel. It is one of his inspirations.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

GRRM has said that Damascus steel is the best real-world analog to Valyrian steel. It is one of his inspirations.

Best real-world analogy, yes, but the properties of Valyrian steel are pure magic.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

You are both mistaken in assuming that there is only good metal and bad metal. That's a fallacy. Different sttels with a different amount of carbon or other metals mixed in behave differently, each with it's own set of strengths and weaknesses.

For a proper blade, you need a certain stiffness, a certain flexibility, a certain hardness, and the ability to be hammered and sharpened into an edge, as well as the ability to be hardened (depended on the amount of carbon).

For proper armor, you need a different stiffness, a different flexibilty, a different hardness, don't need an edge and not hardened. This vastly different array of traits requires a vastly different material.

For different tasks, different steels show their qualities. For blades, a good armor steel is useless, the other way round as well.

you are an open book!

[league of blooDraven]

Best real-world analogy, yes, but the properties of Valyrian steel are pure magic.

I'm just pointing out that the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Also, yes, there are many types of steel which are better suited towards different applications. However that is only one explanation of why there is no VS armor, and only if we assume that all VS exhibits the same properties with no room for manipulation.

I like to think there is another reason for no VS armor we have yet to find out.

[Ser Creighton]

as far as I am aware in addition to the use of magic, VS is created using the same "fold & compress" technique used to create Japanese steel (the rippled blade is a dead giveaway). This technique is extremely time consuming (and that's just making a sword blade, not a whole set or armour) and, ancient weapon experts correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that technique lends itself to the creation of armour.

VS is actually not based off Tamahagane but wootz steel used in the forging of damascus blades. The forging process is believed to be similar, but there is one major difference. We can replicate the folding process used in making Japanese blades, nobody knows how to actually make damascus steel anymore, we can come close but nobody has actually replicated true damascus steel.

But yeah it would be impossible to make armor this way. Mixed metal chain links that have been folded one by one? Or the plate metal again not possible, the cooling process would distort the armor. Japanese swords are not curved by design, that happens in the cooling. Martin has compared VS to damascus steel, so he knows what it is, when the blades go through multiple stages of bending when they are quenched. Reverse bending and then bending, it's not possible to make armor this way.

[league of blooDraven]

Is there anywhere in the text that states VS was the result of a fold-and-quench technique? I don't remember one myself but I can't be sure. I see your point though, this technique being part of the process would certainly exclude it from being made into armor, although maybe they could make strips of it and then ring them together? Idk just an idea..

I read an interesting NYtimes article once that said samples of Damascus steel were examined under electron microscope and shown to have many instances of nano-tube structures. This would explain the increased strength and mysterious nature of the metal's properties as ppl at that time would have no way of knowing about the super-small structural changes. Scientists mentioned in the article that the nano-tubes may have been a result of certain catalysts reacting with the very high carbon content from the wood that was added.

[species5618w]

Somehow I got the mental image of Chef Tony selling VS kitchen knives. Never have to be sharpened. :)

[TheButcherCrow]

Is there anywhere in the text that states VS was the result of a fold-and-quench technique?

It certainly not stated in the text, it was the description of the rippling effect that led me to think that process was used but as Ser C pointed out, GRRM has said he based VS on Damascus steel

[Brian Boru Brightflame]

plate armor might be extremely useful made of valyrian steel. as opposed to large fitted pieces/ single breastplates maybe layering smaller squares. like the romans

[Brian Boru Brightflame]

It certainly not stated in the text, it was the description of the rippling effect that led me to think that process was used but as Ser C pointed out, GRRM has said he based VS on Damascus steel

yeah its a dead give away for the woot steel-esque folding legends. the rippling i mean

[league of blooDraven]

plate armor might be extremely useful made of valyrian steel. as opposed to large fitted pieces/ single breastplates maybe layering smaller squares. like the romans

Yea, maybe make scales and layer them as dragon skin would be. You would think a society so obsessed with dragons would come up with some biomimetic armor.

Makes me think maybe the spells used only work on offensive bits of wardrobe. Although Marwyn was said to have a mask and GRRM said there may be some forks floating around somewhere IIRC so that doesn't exactly fit

[Rhaegar the Dragon Prince]

I always thought VS was based on Damascus Steel?

It pretty much is, except VS is forged using sorcery and dragonfire.

VS is actually not based off Tamahagane but wootz steel used in the forging of damascus blades. The forging process is believed to be similar, but there is one major difference. We can replicate the folding process used in making Japanese blades, nobody knows how to actually make damascus steel anymore, we can come close but nobody has actually replicated true damascus steel.

People still make Damascus Steel, I have a knife made from it.

[league of blooDraven]

It pretty much is, except VS is forged using sorcery and dragonfire.

People still make Damascus Steel, I have a knife made from it.

Lots of companies claim they can make Damascus steel but few actually can. I'm not trying to hate on your knife, I've seen some 'Damascus' blades from kershaw and they're def high quality. It's just the original Damascus blades it seems had some way to make nano-tubes within the blade. This is super high quality construction even by today's standards.

[Old God]

VS steel armour would need to be modified with every new user, but how about a VS shield? I think it would be a more viable to pass on and having a shield made out of VS would be light and hard to pierce.