Connecting the 3 Dragon Heads - Examining Unique Similarities

[Toth]

While I really like your lightbringer-forge = birthplaces theory, I don't think the treasons have anything to do with their love interests. It is totally possible to read the triplets literally and especially the one with the treason is the one where everyone was already betrayed or betrayed someone at this point.

If the dragon heads get betrayed:

blood - MMD to Dany

gold - Shae to Tyrion

love - Bowen to Jon (love for the NW?!?)

if the dragon heads themself betray:

blood - MMD again

gold - Tysha

love - Ygritte.

Right now I'm thinking about the mounts again. The one to bed is most certainly Silver, Danys wedding gift by drogo. The one to dread could mean the Pale Mare. Assuming that the order of the heads is fixed, it means Tyrion contracts the flux in the next book (he is in the middle of an outbreak after all) or uses it to his advantage. He maybe organises an outbreak aboard Victarion's fleet so that he has to abandon many of his ships, effectively giving Dany the fleet she needs to finally go to Westeros.

I know, it's a bit far fetched, but I would like to see a similar outcome instead of one head simply getting ill.

The mount to love is still quite weird. It is most certainly connected to Jon. Which major events of him have a focus on mounting a horse? When he fled from the Wildlings in ASoS with the old man's mare, he thinks of the NW as home and feels hollow because of Ygritte. Not very convincing, I know. The scene where he attempted to desert in AGoT for his father and Robb could also work, but I'm not that sure.

And I still need an important fire for Jon to light. The burning of Ygritte was never featured in the books, even if it would have been the most reasonable thing to do. Him having to do with Melisandre could also result in a plot-important bonfire at some point, but I'm a can't see anything specific. Burning down the Tower of the LC in AGoT also doesn't seem to have anything to do with love.

[jentario]

I always thought that all three dragon heads are part of the Azor Ahai prophecy (as in, all three are AAR in some way), but the OP made the connection clear. I'd much prefer that over Jon Snow getting all the prophecies and titles.

[pobeb]

The "fires must you light" are:

For Life - Dany lighting the funeral pyre which yielded her dragons.

For Death - Tyrion's use of the wildfire during the Battle of the Blackwater.

To Love - Catelyn giving Jon the "last kiss". This is going to need explaining:

It is my belief that the supernatural presence that resurrected Beric, and was later used to resurrect Catelyn, will also be used to resurrect Jon. Please see these points:

1) In ASoS, we learn that Thoros has been reviving Beric with "prayers":

"I filled my mouth with fire and breathed the flames inside him, down his throat to lungs and heart and soul. The last kiss it is called ... never before had I felt a dead man shudder as the fire filled him, nor seen his eyes come open."

Arya, ASoS

- Thoros doesn't just light a figurative life-giving fire, he literally lights a fire in Beric in order to revive him. And the line of succession (Beric<Cat<Jon) also follows the pattern of 3

2) This

Now, I understand the show isn't 100% canon, but come on! The fact that the show-runners have foreknowledge of future events makes the suggestions here painfully obvious:

- Jon is on his deathbed, trying to survive through a "very long night" (at the end of ADwD, the second coming of the Long Night is at hand)

- Catelyn feels guilt for Jon's circumstances, and "prays" him back to life (remember that Thoros refers to the "last kiss" as a prayer)

- Despite Catelyn's efforts, she still can't love Jon, and she recognizes that her inability to do this has led to her misery. Which brings me to this last point:

3) Catelyn lights a fire in Jon (last kiss), thus allowing herself to love him (three fires must you light ... a fire to love)

- The key to this is how the fire is lit. It isn't "for love" because Catlyn does not love Jon; she has to light the fire in order to love Jon.

4) The pattern of 3 is also present here in that there are 3 red-headed women who develop Jon:

- Ygritte, Melisandre, Catelyn

Now, are the lighting of fires connected beyond just being instances where a fire is lit? Certainly:

1) Each fire develops each hero

- Dany gets her dragons

- Tyrion develops his courage, prowess in battle, and battle strategy (I will elaborate on this in the "mounts" section)

- Jon gets his body back

2) Each fire is lit due to magic coming back into the world

- This should be obvious, but the birth of dragons and Dany surviving that fire were special, magical events

- The production of the wildfire was due to the increase in magical power. Observe Alchemist Hallyne's response to Tyrion when questioned about the increase in their wildfire production:

"... we have made so much of the substance that we have become, hmmm, more practiced as it were, and also”—the alchemist shifted uncomfortably—“certain spells, hmmm, ancient secrets of our order, very delicate, very troublesome, but necessary if the substance is to be, hmmm, all it should be . . . seem to be working better than they were.” Hallyne smiled weakly. “You don’t suppose there are any dragons about, do you?”

Tyrion, ACoK

- And lastly, the fire that Thoros started in the Beric<Cat<Jon dynamic is also a result of magic coming back into the world:

"... I am not the false priest you knew. The Lord of Light has woken in my heart. Many powers long asleep are waking ..."

Ayra, ASoS

3) Each fire comes at the result of a sacrifice

- Dany sacrificing Drogo and MMD

- Tyrion sacrificing Joffrey's fleet and all the men aboard:

“My ships.” Joffrey’s voice cracked as he shouted up from the wallwalk, where he huddled with his guards behind the ramparts. The golden circlet of kingship adorned his battle helm. “My Kingslander’s burning, Queen Cersei, Loyal Man. Look, that’s Seaflower, there.” He pointed with his new sword, out to where the green flames were licking at Seaflower’s golden hull and creeping up her oars. Her captain had turned her upriver, but not quickly enough to evade the wildfire. She was doomed, Tyrion knew. There was no other way. If we had not come forth to meet them, Stannis would have sensed the trap. An arrow could be aimed, and a spear, even the stone from a catapult, but wildfire had a will of its own. Once loosed, it was beyond the control of mere men.

“It could not be helped,” he told his nephew. “Our fleet was doomed in any case.”

Tyrion, ACoK

- Cat sacrificing herself to revive Jon (as explained above)

I'll continue with the "mounts to ride" section in my next post.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Great post, I have thought for a long time that it is a hell of a coincidence that the three main characters all had their mother's die in childbirth and have been outsiders all of their lives (Jon a bastard, Tyrion a dwarf and Daenerys in exile on another continent).

The only real problem I see is that IF Tyrion is Aerys kid than that screws up up the rule of three (Aerys then had four kids and Daenerys three siblings and one half sibling, Tyrion would have five half-siblings ) but I guess you could say true born sibling for Daenerys and thought to be true born for Tyrion.

[Sandusky the Crazed]

Very very interesting I don't buy it, for various reason but it is interesting.

you going to expand on why you don't believe in it? or just post that.

[pobeb]

The only real problem I see is that IF Tyrion is Aerys kid than that screws up up the rule of three (Aerys then had four kids and Daenerys three siblings and one half sibling, Tyrion would have five half-siblings ) but I guess you could say true born sibling for Daenerys and thought to be true born for Tyrion.

It doesn't work if you look at the family sub groups as Aerys, Aerys, Rhaegar, I agree. Which is why I divided the sub groups as Rhaella, Joanna, Rhaegar. As I hope you will agree, the pattern of 3 still applies while also maintaining that each hero descended from Aerys.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

It doesn't work if you look at the family sub groups as Aerys, Aerys, Rhaegar, I agree. Which is why I divided the sub groups as Rhaella, Joanna, Rhaegar. As I hope you will agree, the pattern of 3 still applies while also maintaining that each hero descended from Aerys.

Actually that does work.

I whole heartily agree that Jon, Daenerys and Tyrion are the Three Heads of the Dragon and I am pretty sure that Tyrion is the product of Aerys raping Joanna.

I seem to remember that something happened to Joanna in King's Landing and afterwards returned to Casterly Rock and never returned but I can never seem to find where I read that. I am thinking that if the time line matches up, that is the creation of Tyrion.

[pobeb]

I seem to remember that something happened to Joanna in King's Landing and afterwards returned to Casterly Rock and never returned but I can never seem to find where I read that. I am thinking that if the time line matches up, that is the creation of Tyrion.

I get that sense also, but in all the research I've done on this topic (which included an extensive search for instances in which Joanna was named or referenced) I haven't been able to find anything to support it. If you're able to locate more evidence towards this, that would be awesome.

[Sundfeld]

It seems possible but I don't really believe that Tyrion is a Targ, imo it would be too much to have two main characters secretly being Targaryens without them even knowing. And I also havethis nagging feeling that the whole thing abour the dragon having three heads is being widley misinterpreted. If it really is that literal then I asume the three "heads" are going to be Daenerys, Aegon and Jon.

Tyrion WILL play a major role in the endgame but not as big as him being a Targaryen, he has a lot of knowledge about dragons and that for me is where he is going to come in. Teaching Daenerys about them or something like that.

[pobeb]

It seems possible but I don't really believe that Tyrion is a Targ, imo it would be too much to have two main characters secretly being Targaryens without them even knowing. And I also havethis nagging feeling that the whole thing abour the dragon having three heads is being widley misinterpreted. If it really is that literal then I asume the three "heads" are going to be Daenerys, Aegon and Jon.

Tyrion considered saying something, then thought better. It seemed to him that the prophecy that drove the red priests had room for just one hero. A second Targaryen would only serve to confuse them.

And so it has with you as well, it appears. And here I was thinking I did a good job drawing up all those connections.

[Kiss of Fire 2]

Snip

And I still need an important fire for Jon to light. The burning of Ygritte was never featured in the books, even if it would have been the most reasonable thing to do. Him having to do with Melisandre could also result in a plot-important bonfire at some point, but I'm a can't see anything specific. Burning down the Tower of the LC in AGoT also doesn't seem to have anything to do with love.

Jon burned a wight.

[Sundfeld]

And so it has with you as well, it appears. And here I was thinking I did a good job drawing up all those connections.

I'm not confused, I get your theory, and it really is very good and I know that we all like Tyrion, but that doesn't mean that he has to be the final hero.

It's waaaaaay to crackpot to believe that Tyrion is a Targ, sorry to burst your bubble but it's really not likely to happen.

[pobeb]

I'm not confused, I get your theory, and it really is very good and I know that we all like Tyrion, but that doesn't mean that he has to be the final hero.

It's waaaaaay to crackpot to believe that Tyrion is a Targ, sorry to burst your bubble but it's really not likely to happen.

You're calling my theory crackpot without confronting the points I've made to support it. My OP has detailed citations and explanations - your contention doesn't, and looks more like an attempt to derail this thread. Listen, it's fine for you to disagree, but at least try to come up with some sort of argument outside of:

"It's waaaaaay to crackpot"

I'm a reasonable person. I'm more than open to considering a counter argument, but you're not giving me one. Here are some things to consider:

Are we to ignore all the dragon references about and given by Tyrion?

You don't find Tywin's paternity doubts suspicious?

What about the talk of Aerys' rapist behavior and lust for Joanna?

Again, you don't have to agree with me, but if you want to legitimately argue against what I've said, the least you could do is respond to my points.

p.s. I just blew a bubble and called it crackpot. Surprisingly, this didn't burst the bubble.

[Sundfeld]

You're calling my theory crackpot without confronting the points I've made to support it. My OP has detailed citations and explanations - your contention doesn't, and looks more like an attempt to derail this thread. Listen, it's fine for you to disagree, but at least try to come up with some sort of argument outside of:

"It's waaaaaay to crackpot"

I'm a reasonable person. I'm more than open to considering a counter argument, but you're not giving me one. Here are some things to consider:

Are we to ignore all the dragon references about and given by Tyrion?

You don't find Tywin's paternity doubts suspicious?

What about the talk of Aerys' rapist behavior and lust for Joanna?

Again, you don't have to agree with me, but if you want to legitimately argue against what I've said, the least you could do is respond to my points.

p.s. I just blew a bubble and called it crackpot. Surprisingly, the bubble didn't burst.

I'm not trying to start anything here, I'm just giving my opinion. I actually think your teory is erally good, you have a strong argument, if I find anything to help or clear doubts about anything I will. But I believe opinios are just as important un a forum or discussion like the ones on this site. DIscussion can make an argument stronger. For me the thing that just doesn't work is that we already have a story arc that is dealing with a secret Targ son, and I find really hard to believe that it could happen twice.

Tyrion is a really strong and important character but I do believe he is a Lannister, one with a really important job in the end but a Lannister nonetheless.

Let's say that I chose poorly my words to describe my opinion.

[espresso]

Really good compilation of the three-factor, OP. But it is a catch that most points require the assumption Tyrion is Targaryen.

I would love and hate Tyrion to be a Targaryen, for different reasons. Not going into that.

A+J=T is a theory believed/suspected by many fans, albeit not as predominantly as R+L=J. I won't call it crackpot.

- Each hero has slain a villain with their preferred weapon of choice (Daenerys slays Kraznys with Drogon, Tyrion slays Tywin with a crossbow, Jon slays Janos with Longclaw)

I don't think Janos Slynt is not big enough a villain to be compared with Tywin or the Slavers/Undying. I think Jon's big slaying is yet to come.

- The first 3 chapters of A Dance with Dragons is of Tyrion, Daenerys, and Jon

This could simply be because GRRM knew the fans care most about these three and haven't had a POV from them for eleven years. In the end of Feast, the author's note mention only these three characters, telling we will hear from them in the next book.

- Each hero's siblings are dead or soon to die (admittedly, my weakest connection)

- Each hero has had a lover who has died (Drogo, Ygritte, Shae)

Maybe Tysha, if she is dead too.

- They each represent the 3 things used to temper Lightbringer’s blade:

- The water used first to temper lightbringer represents the birth of Dany, born in the midst of a storm.

- The lion used to temper lightbringer represents the birth of Tyrion, born in the home of the lions - Casterly Rock.

- The love of Nissa Nissa used to temper lightbringer represents Jon, born of love in the Tower of Joy.

Awesome!

Jon, Tyrion, and Daenerys are the 3 heads of the dragon, and will be the key players in the "war for the dawn".

[Fool of a Book]

The third head does not have to be a Targ. GRRM said so.

[pobeb]

For me the thing that just doesn't work is that we already have a story arc that is dealing with a secret Targ son, and I find really hard to believe that it could happen twice.

Tyrion is a really strong and important character but I do believe he is a Lannister, one with a really important job in the end but a Lannister nonetheless.

Ok, so your point of contention is that Tyrion can't be a secret Targaryen because Jon is also a secret Targaryen - please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding.

So, to simplify, your argument is basically: There cannot be multiple similar story-lines. (again, you don't give any reasoning for this)

You're saying this despite the fact that the story is rife with:

- repeating patterns in events and history

- patterned triplets (3 heads of the dragon, 3 mounts, 3 fires, 3 treasons, 3 children who killed their mother in childbirth, a 3 eyed raven, 3 red-heads who affect Jon, a triplet practically every time Mormont's raven speaks)

- multiple characters all going through hellish circumstances in their pursuit of redemption (Theon, Jaime, Jon, Tyrion, Catelyn, Daenerys, Sandor, Ned, Davos, etc)

It's ok for things to be similar, or overlapping. After all, Jon and Tyrion are connected - if my theory stands.

Also, Tyrion is a Lannister, I never contended this and I completely agree with you. But he isn't a full-blooded Lannister; he's a half-Lannister. Ever wonder if there's something else behind him being referred to as half-man (other than being a dwarf)? Half-dragon also perhaps?

[pobeb]

Really good compilation of the three-factor, OP. But it is a catch that most points require the assumption Tyrion is Targaryen.

I would love and hate Tyrion to be a Targaryen, for different reasons. Not going into that.

A+J=T is a theory believed/suspected by many fans, albeit not as predominantly as R+L=J. I won't call it crackpot.

The third head does not have to be a Targ. GRRM said so.

Agreed. The 3rd head doesn't have to be a Targ. But, Tyrion not being a Targaryen doesn't detract from any other point I made in the OP. Every other point can absolutely stand on it's own without the necessity of A+J=T. I only added this point for another layer to my theory, and I understood how hotly people would argue it - which is why you can see I did my most citing and explaining for that point in particular.

However, if you really observe all the examples and accompanying explanations that I listed, you'll see that I've painted a very strong case of Tyrion being a Targeryen. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but you can't deny the evidence I've cited.

[Sundfeld]

There is a clear reference to the number 3 everywhere, but who knows we might even end with a dead Daenerys and three secret Targs: Jon, Tyrion and Youg Griff. Hey, anything can happen at this point... I just don't really buy the whole Tyrion is a Targ, I mean we only have two clear references, one from Tywin who can't really say anything now... and the other about Aerys taking liberties, sure it could be possible that this is goint to be the third head of the dragon, we'll see about it soon enough.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

Well done OP! Very strategically thought out. I personally hope that Tyrion is Tywin's son because I really like the idea of only Tyrion being Tywin's son & that Jaime & Cersei (Tywin's golden children) are in fact not his. But I definitely cannot ignore the fact that there are many instances in which the texr appears to be indicating Tyrion is a Targ or at the very least has something to do with dragons. I cannot offer any counter argument to it & it very well may be true. I would just prefer it not to be. At any rate Bravo :)