jet199 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 We see in Vic's TWOW chapter that Euron's dragon horn is an actual dragon's horn. “My brother found this thing on Valyria,” Victarion told the thralls. “Think how big the dragon must’ve been to bear two of these upon his head. Bigger than Vhagar or Meraxes, bigger than Balerion the Black Dread.” The fact that dragons have horns is confirmed in the Princess and the Queen. The Red Queen, she was called, for the scarlet scales that covered her. The membranes of her wings were pink, her crest, horns, and claws bright as copper. Trapped within the pit, hemmed in by walls and dome and bound by heavy chains, the dragons could not fly away, or use their wings to evade attacks and swoop down on their foes. Instead they fought with horns and claws and teeth, turning this way and that like bulls in a Flea Bottom rat pit … but these bulls could breathe fire. Moondancer was a young dragon, pale green, with horns and crest and wingbones of pearl. It has been noted on this forum that the horn found by Mance north of the wall is very similar to the one Euron gave Vic. The horn was huge, eight feet along the curve and so wide at the mouth that he could have put his arm inside up to the elbow. If this came from an aurochs, it was the biggest that ever lived. At first, he thought the bands around it were bronze, but when he moved closer he realized they were gold. Old gold, more brown than yellow, and graven with runes. Two queen’s men brought forth the Horn of Joramun, black and banded with old gold, eight feet long from end to end. Runes were carved into the golden bands, the writing of the First Men....For half a heartbeat the runes graven on the gold bands seemed to shimmer in the air. The horn he blew was shiny black and twisted, and taller than a man as he held it with both hands. It was bound about with bands of red gold and dark steel, incised with ancient Valyrian glyphs that seemed to glow redly as the sound swelled. A twisted thing it was, six feet long from end to end, gleaming black and banded with red gold and dark Valyrian steel. I guess the question is if the horn that Mance found is not from a dragon, what animal could it be from. It is even bigger than Euron's horn and so must have come from a creature much bigger than Balerion. I don't believe we have seen any creature in asoiaf that grows so big other than dragons. Why is there a giant dragon horn not only north of the wall but apparently buried in the grave of heros and kings? One possibility is that it was from a wild dragon which had been killed but would the first men have the capability to take down a beast bigger than the Balerion. There is also the problem of how a dragon grew to that size in the cold climate of the north. Another possibility is that there was an far north Valyrian stronghold or a Valyrian visitor dropped it off but then why would the horn Mance found be inscribed with runs rather than Valyrian glyphs. I think it may be that there was a separate group of dragonriders in the far north who either came from Valyria and adopted first men culture or had a separate origin to the Valyrians. Maybe as the original Valyrians found dragons around the volcanoes on their peninsular the wildlings found dragons in the volcanic regions of the north, specifically Hardhome. If we are looking at a Valyrian colony then maybe we are looking at Bael the Bard's people, which would explain his Valyrian sounding name. This new culture was wiped out before it could become as powerful as its Essos cousin because, just like in the doom of Valyria, all the dragons were kept by the volcanoes so they could all be killed off at once by a big volcanic event. The Doom was Hardhome 2.0, the fire being seen from the wall sounds exactly like the Valyrian volcanoes all erupting at once and burning dragons in flight. This could mean that Starks and other northerners have dragonrider blood without necessarily having a Targ ancestor. The main problem with this idea is why would the Starks do not talk about wildlings with dragons considering it would be quite a heroic thing to have defeated. The only things I can thing of is if the dragons were kept secret for some reason, maybe avoiding skinchangers, or if the Starks wanted to down play down anti-dragon stories once the Targs took over so that part of history was forgotten. Maybe Brandon Snow started making weirwood arrows because he knew they would work but Torrhen didn't want Aegon to find that fact out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanderOfTheFaith Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 The first men probably wouldn't be able to kill it. Perhaps giants or others... Now why would an other want to kill a dragon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Cornholio! Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Perhaps a Ice dragon. They have been teased throughout the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleheart Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Perhaps a Ice dragon. They have been teased throughout the books. Shadow Dragons and Stone Dragons have been mentioned as well. Either one of those three - ice, shadow, or stone, could come from beyond or even from within the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunflashJT Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Very interesting stuff here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noemia Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Maybe Euron has a fake one, since he already blew it and nothing happened, and this is the real one? It could wake another dragon - ice, stone, shadow or the alleged dragon in the water near the Iron Isles - or it could bring one of Dany's dragon to the wall. I would like to see Viserion carrying Tyrion to the Wall with him, since GRRM said he would be "going home", but it's probably not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApKing06 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Perhaps a Ice dragon. They have been teased throughout the books. I figured the ice dragon was inside the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn34 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Jon often mentions an ice dragon, sometimes subtly describing things he sees beyond the wall to be like an ice dragon or a dragon of ice. I can't find exact quotes right now. But that could explain the horn that Mance found. And perhaps, if there is a dragon north of the wall, it's existence or possible awakening is the catalyst that started the Others moving. Or perhaps the dragon is part of the Other's army (prior to the show, I would have said the male babies were sacrificed to the dragon). I think, if applied to RLJ and the three heads of the dragon being Dany, Tyrion, and Jon... I've always thought it would be cool if Jon has his own ice dragon. He is ice, Dany is fire, a song of ice and fire. I guess Tyrion just gets to be in the middle of the sandiwch. And I don't think all three dragons will make it out of Essos. My money is on the Viserys namesake being the one to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 The first men probably wouldn't be able to kill it. Perhaps giants or others... Now why would an other want to kill a dragon? Dragon wight maybe... that would be badass ! or the alleged dragon in the water near the Iron Isles - If there is any ugly beastie lurking around the Iron Islands, it's a Kraken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheButcherCrow Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Would a dragon horn burn though ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noemia Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 If there is any ugly beastie lurking around the Iron Islands, it's a Kraken. Or Cthulhu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talking Hodor Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Isn't it possible that the horn was merely constructed large and not that it comes from an actual dragon's horn? That's not to say that there's no ice dragon, but warhorns don't have to be made from their skull protrusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword of Nightfall Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Or Cthulhu! :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountFJM Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Why not wight dragons? we've seen wight bears, wight horses, etc..if Dany's dragons make it to the wall (or wherever the war for the dawn takes place) you'd think they'd have more to do than burn wights by the bushel. Dragon combat has been teased throughout the books (in The Princess and the Queen especially) and unless D/V/R turn on each other through Vic/Euron's machinations or some other way, a wight dragon(s) or ice dragon(s) answering to the Others (being ridden by the Great Other?) would make for a much more climactic conflict. What else would you need three dragonriders for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Or Cthulhu! Winds spoiler : Aeron Greyjoy will bound Cthulhu to his will and use him to avenge himself from Euron Greyjoy. Later on, Cthulhu will get free of the Drowned God priest and eat him before turning his gaze to KL. Cthulhu is actually the Prince that was Promised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noemia Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Winds spoiler : Aeron Greyjoy will bound Cthulhu to his will and use him to avenge himself from Euron Greyjoy. Later on, Cthulhu will get free of the Drowned God priest and eat him before turning his gaze to KL. Cthulhu is actually the Prince that was Promised. Ha ha! Nice theory! :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 There were wild dragons all over Westeros during the time of the First Men, before the Long Night. And I would say a wild dragon is much easier to kill than a battle trained Valyrian dragon. The Valyrian dragon is under intelligent control, and guarded by soldiers when it sleeps. A wild dragon can be ambushed, trapped, snuck up upon while it sleeps, poisoned, shot with weirwood arrows or it could be brought down by an ancient greenseer for all we know. Clearly this Horn dated from the time of the First Men, from before there even was a Wall. And it was bigger than the dragon that provided Euron's horn, which in turn was bigger than Balerion the Black Dread. So the Horn from North of the Wall comes from the biggest dragon we have heard of to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkfaithful85 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I think that the Idea that there are dragons north of the wall is very wishful thinking. A reveal of dragons, more specifically an unknown valaryian outpost existing north of the wall, would honestly make me feel cheated. What I mean by that is that the known existence of dragons in the world has been explained to include Dany and her Dragons, and possibly dragons in Asshai. The existence of an ice dragon would be the more viable option in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idle Raven Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 When I read TP&TQ I noted that the Dragon Sheepstealer and her rider (can't remember the girl's name) flew away from the Riverlands after being warned by Prince Daeron of approaching treachery. Sheepstealer was never seen again, if I recall correctly. Given the known long life of Dragons it is entirely possible that Sheepstealer is still alive somewhere. If it had returned to Dragonstone or was anywhere else in the Seven Kingdoms its presence would have been noticed. North of the wall? It's possible, but nothing has been mentioned in the books that would even hint at a Dragon lurking up there, unless of course you include the possibility of the stories of 'firewyrms' at Hardhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApKing06 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I think that the Idea that there are dragons north of the wall is very wishful thinking. A reveal of dragons, more specifically an unknown valaryian outpost existing north of the wall, would honestly make me feel cheated. What I mean by that is that the known existence of dragons in the world has been explained to include Dany and her Dragons, and possibly dragons in Asshai. The existence of an ice dragon would be the more viable option in my opinion. Am I crazy to think that the ice dragon is in the wall? When Melisandre said she felt most powerful up at the wall and previous mentions of magic getting stronger since Danys dragons were born (house of the undying i believe?), i always thought that there was a dragon encased in the wall which would be released by someone or something that had the power to knock the wall down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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