rozemarijn Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I don't think Sheepstealer was that big honestly. But I like the idea of an ice dragon. It wasn't that big but it would have became very big over the years. Dragons don't stop growing as long as they have free range. That's why Drogon is the biggest one.I always (or since tpatq) thought Sheepstealer as the provider of Dany's eggs. After the dance it was the last dragon and it disappeared, but where did it go? I think the dragon in the north will be an ice dragon, while sheepstealer is fire. But Nettles may indeed have gone to Asshai, and there lay some eggs over time. ( Nettles may even have been pregnant...) Sheepstealer will not play an important role but behind the scenes it may be how Martin sees it. It may not be important to know where the eggs come from but my guess is he does have a background story, and why not Nettles and Sheepstealer? It seems much more fit the eggs have a story and Targaryen link in contrary to 'some random' eggs from a dragon long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GERM Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 It wasn't that big but it would have became very big over the years. Dragons don't stop growing as long as they have free range. That's why Drogon is the biggest one.I always (or since tpatq) thought Sheepstealer as the provider of Dany's eggs. After the dance it was the last dragon and it disappeared, but where did it go? I think the dragon in the north will be an ice dragon, while sheepstealer is fire. But Nettles may indeed have gone to Asshai, and there lay some eggs over time. ( Nettles may even have been pregnant...) Sheepstealer will not play an important role but behind the scenes it may be how Martin sees it. It may not be important to know where the eggs come from but my guess is he does have a background story, and why not Nettles and Sheepstealer? It seems much more fit the eggs have a story and Targaryen link in contrary to 'some random' eggs from a dragon long ago. How do you explain the return of magic? Martin has connected magic with the return of dragons in the story, at least in regards to the fire god. It seems to me that this wouldn't be an issue if there were still living dragons in Asshai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofSquirrels Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Am I crazy to think that the ice dragon is in the wall? When Melisandre said she felt most powerful up at the wall and previous mentions of magic getting stronger since Danys dragons were born (house of the undying i believe?), i always thought that there was a dragon encased in the wall which would be released by someone or something that had the power to knock the wall down. This would make total sense!!! What if the "king's blood" that is sacrificed to wake a "stone dragon" is Jon's, and the stone dragon is a dragon in the wall??? When Jon is being stabbed, his attackers keep on repeating "for the wall." That sounds like a sacrifice if ever I've heard one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grrrod Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 It wasn't that big but it would have became very big over the years. Dragons don't stop growing as long as they have free range. That's why Drogon is the biggest one.I always (or since tpatq) thought Sheepstealer as the provider of Dany's eggs. After the dance it was the last dragon and it disappeared, but where did it go? I think the dragon in the north will be an ice dragon, while sheepstealer is fire. But Nettles may indeed have gone to Asshai, and there lay some eggs over time. ( Nettles may even have been pregnant...) Sheepstealer will not play an important role but behind the scenes it may be how Martin sees it. It may not be important to know where the eggs come from but my guess is he does have a background story, and why not Nettles and Sheepstealer? It seems much more fit the eggs have a story and Targaryen link in contrary to 'some random' eggs from a dragon long ago. I thought Cannibal was unaccounted for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GERM Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I thought Cannibal was unaccounted for? If Martin writes dragons being alive in the world, he screws up his magic system; there wasn't "fire" magic until Daenry's dragons were born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 How do you explain the return of magic? Martin has connected magic with the return of dragons in the story, at least in regards to the fire god. It seems to me that this wouldn't be an issue if there were still living dragons in Asshai. I think he was talking about the 'birth' of the dragons that didn't happen since many years ago. How would he explain that Bran's vision in aGoT while he was seeing everything real-time but not the dragons in Asshai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GERM Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I think he was talking about the 'birth' of the dragons that didn't happen since many years ago. How would he explain that Bran's vision in aGoT while he was seeing everything real-time but not the dragons in Asshai? You're referring to this quote right? "He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise." -AGOT Chapter 18 I always read the end to be connected to the beginning like the following: "He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise." I never connected the last to Asshai. I never saw a reason too. If it was meant that way, likely Martin planned to take the story there and it never made it. Dragons have been seen, or should be seen, in all of those places listed in that sentence (except Asshai) by the time Daenry's leaves for Westeros. There is nothing there to suggest anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApKing06 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Old Nan has never been heard actually say it. "The wind was gusting, cold as the breath of the ice dragon in the tales Old Nan had told when Jon was a boy" -ADWD Chapter 35 "The wind was blowing from the east along the Wall, cold as the breath of the ice dragon in the tales Old Nan used to tell." -ADWD Chapter 49 "The road beneath the Wall was as dark and cold as the belly of an ice dragon and as twisty as a serpent." -ADWD Chapter 39 Despite what has been communicated in the thread, there haven't been references or allusions throughout the series, but I think GRRM sent a clear message in these last few chapters of ADWD. If you combine that with the knowledge we were given about how you bind dragons to a horn (or at least Dragonbinder), it can be supposed by someone that they're all connected and Martin has either revealed an old plan or a newly devised one. If you include the fact that all of this came to us in the last 15% of ADWD, the case grows even stronger. What do we know? "I am Dragonbinder, No Mortal man should sound me and live, Blood for Fire, Fire for Blood" Moqorro says that if anyone can sound the horn, but any dragon that hears will obey the horn's master. He further explains that Victarion must become the horn's master by claiming it with blood. We know that there is talk of a Horn that will bring down the wall. We know that the wall was built with powerful magic. We have seen that most magic in GRRM's world revolved around dragons (or at least their presence in the world). Now, I hadn't given this subject much thought (none actually) before reading this topic. However, if a dragon was bound to, and inside of, the Wall in order to bolster its magical defense, it can be said that someone who sounds a dragon horn (maybe the only horn with specific glyphs tailored to an Ice Dragon) they have claim too within earshot of the dragon inside the wall, that it would bring the dragon forth and essentially bring the wall down. Just a thought. Heres another thought would being in earshot of the horn be necessary if blown by someone who has mastered a dragon horn, i wonder? Im thinking a scenario where someone who has mastered Victarions horn (or Tourmond isnt lying and the horn of jouramon is still out there), blows it to control Danys dragons and unknowingly brings down the wall by waking the dragon inside leaving Westeros defenseless against the others. If that was to happen then Dany would have reason to come West and not wait around anymore. or im way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabrecmc Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Now, I hadn't given this subject much thought (none actually) before reading this topic. However, if a dragon was bound to, and inside of, the Wall in order to bolster its magical defense, it can be said that someone who sounds a dragon horn (maybe the only horn with specific glyphs tailored to an Ice Dragon) they have claim too within earshot of the dragon inside the wall, that it would bring the dragon forth and essentially bring the wall down. Just a thought. I have no idea what an ice dragon would be like (would it spew ice? that makes no sense), but the idea of a dragon being a part of the Wall, a sacrifice to bind the magic or something, and its horn being blown to wake it is kind of awesome. You can just see it in your head...the Wall slowly melting from the inside as the dragon wakes...I mean, I have no idea how that would fit in the story, but the imagery is freaking epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GERM Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Heres another thought would being in earshot of the horn be necessary if blown by someone who has mastered a dragon horn, i wonder? Im thinking a scenario where someone who has mastered Victarions horn (or Tourmond isnt lying and the horn of jouramon is still out there), blows it to control Danys dragons and unknowingly brings down the wall by waking the dragon inside leaving Westeros defenseless against the others. If that was to happen then Dany would have reason to come West and not wait around anymore. or im way off. All we can go off of is what information is given to us in the books. Whether that is accurate or not is another matter. I would lean towards "yes" in this regard. In chapter 63 of ADWD Moqorro states that "...whoever blows the horn will die but any dragons that hear will obey the horn's master." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupo Storm Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 What if Brandon,The Builder warged in to the ice dragon and build the wall with it's icy breath,and in the end he somehow managed to freeze the dragon within the wall? D: About Brann's vision,is it really safe to asure that Bran saw a dragon or just he assume there(East) are dragons? loving this topic :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJD Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 How do you explain the return of magic? Martin has connected magic with the return of dragons in the story, at least in regards to the fire god. It seems to me that this wouldn't be an issue if there were still living dragons in Asshai. It's possible that magic is proportional to the number of dragons. There is some magic prior to Dany's dragons, it's just very weak. If there's 1 dragon and all of a sudden 3 more are born, magic is increased 3 fold. I'm not saying I buy the idea that there was another dragon still alive, but it still fits with the increase in magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 GRRM says that in the world of his story, dragons once were everywhere, kind of like dinosaurs were in our world and once in a while, something is found that was though to be extince. Ice preserves, Maeister Aemon and Jon both make that assessment and it keeps things for vast amounts of time. It is possible that a dragon exists north of the wall, possibly one that helped make it is burried underneath to enchant the spell that raised the wall itself. GRRM says that dragons act like batteries of magic instead of batteries of electricity so, Mel mentions that there is powerful magic near the wall and she can do great things there. Why do you supposed that is? Dragons are near and I do not mean Maester Aemon and Jon, Dragons I mean. Real dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coluber Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 It would be very interesting if there was indeed an Ice Dragon north of the wall, especially if it were tied somehow to the Others and their agenda, whatever it may be (there's a part of me that wants to see a talking dragon á lá Smaug in the books, that would be interesting). If there is an Ice Dragon, either Jon, or Bran will be involved in its awakening.And if there aren't any Ice Dragons, it would be nice if there existed a creature of ice that was a counterpart to the dragons, something like an Arabic anqa (which from what I've read, is an Ice Phoenix).But I do hope that there are Ice Dragons, just to see the look on Daenerys' face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'mnoLady Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 This would make total sense!!! What if the "king's blood" that is sacrificed to wake a "stone dragon" is Jon's, and the stone dragon is a dragon in the wall??? When Jon is being stabbed, his attackers keep on repeating "for the wall." That sounds like a sacrifice if ever I've heard one! Great, never thought about that Martin could have caricatured Mel's obsession with "King's blood" in this way! Very good idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 But all this time (maybe 8000 years), Jon will be the first "king's blood" that ever died at the Wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'mnoLady Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 But all this time (maybe 8000 years), Jon will be the first "king's blood" that ever died at the Wall? It seems, that the time of dragons had to reconvene before it is possible imho. The glass candles etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 But all this time (maybe 8000 years), Jon will be the first "king's blood" that ever died at the Wall? Doubt it... their have been many battles at the Wall during its existence, and many Starks (when they were kings) manned the Wall, it's strongly possible that one of them died there but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Targaryen Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 But all this time (maybe 8000 years), Jon will be the first "king's blood" that ever died at the Wall? Maybe the first one who was sacrificed "for the Watch". Not killed in battle, etc. ETA: didn't Mel said that 2 kings are needed to wake the stone dragon? Jon may be the first one who has two kings' blood in him (Stark, Targ), or, actually the third one as well: Bael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeppelincheetah Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 How do you explain the return of magic? Martin has connected magic with the return of dragons in the story, at least in regards to the fire god. It seems to me that this wouldn't be an issue if there were still living dragons in Asshai. This made me think of what Melisandre said, "She was stronger at the Wall, stronger even than in Asshai." - Page 411 of the hardback of ADWD. Maybe this is proof that there is indeed an ice dragon within the wall. Edit: Lord Damian beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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