A few things to consider

[Kyotsyu]

Hello everyone, this is my very first topic around here with a bunch of crackpot theories that popped in my mind while re-reading some parts of the book.

First:

Why the name Winterfell? I tried looking around the forum using the search but didn't find anyone talking about this. Could this mean that the Battle for Dawn took place where Winterfell now stands? Bran the Builder, rumoured to be the first Stark, could have been there and built his castle right where the Others fell with some sort of magic, that'd give a reason for the commonly known phrase "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell", just so the magic is kept alive. Bran the Builder could then build the Wall leagues away from Winterfell and leave the castle as a second-line defense.

Second:

Why are the crypts of Winterfell built upwards, starting from below? The first tombs being below? Is there something down there? What if there's something in the lower levels that could be used as a weapon against the Others? The crypts are a good bottle-neck point for defenders against an onslaught. The castle is said to always be warm, can there be anything that is so hot down there it could be used to defeat the dead?

Third:

We haven't been given information on how the Valyrians controlled their dragons. What if the magic-horn Euron found is nothing at all? What if Dragons are controlled by their riders by skinchanging or something akin to warg powers? That'd explain how one rider can only control one dragon, them being such powerful beings would rip the conscience who tried to control two dragons apart. Even Aegon only tried mounting Balerion, never the lesser dragons of his sisters. Why? Is there a deeper connection between rider and dragons besides a mind-bending horn?

Sorry if any of these questions has been answered before, I didn't find it.

And this is just food for thought, discuss away. ^_^

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Well, as to the crypts, I think it's just for practical reasons. If you start at the bottom and keep going up, you'll reach a point where you're out of room.. going from top to below, you won't have that problem.

[Kyotsyu]

Well, as to the crypts, I think it's just for practical reasons. If you start at the bottom and keep going up, you'll reach a point where you're out of room.. going from top to below, you won't have that problem.

Sorry, I expressed myself in the wrong way. From the text we are told that the Winterfell crypts are build from below, meaning the oldest tombs are at the bottom levels and the newer near the entrance.

[The Poster Who Was Promisd]

That bothered me, too. If you work downwards, you can keep adding crypts as necessary. Working upwards gives you an endpoint. I'm not sure if this is significant or not.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Sorry, I expressed myself in the wrong way. From the text we are told that the Winterfell crypts are build from below, meaning the oldest tombs are at the bottom levels and the newer near the entrance.

In that case, I have no idea

[Twatbeards conspiracy]

Hello everyone, this is my very first topic around here with a bunch of crackpot theories that popped in my mind while re-reading some parts of the book.

First:

Why the name Winterfell? I tried looking around the forum using the search but didn't find anyone talking about this. Could this mean that the Battle for Dawn took place where Winterfell now stands? Bran the Builder, rumoured to be the first Stark, could have been there and built his castle right where the Others fell with some sort of magic, that'd give a reason for the commonly known phrase "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell", just so the magic is kept alive. Bran the Builder could then build the Wall leagues away from Winterfell and leave the castle as a second-line defense.

Second:

Why are the crypts of Winterfell built upwards, starting from below? The first tombs being below? Is there something down there? What if there's something in the lower levels that could be used as a weapon against the Others? The crypts are a good bottle-neck point for defenders against an onslaught. The castle is said to always be warm, can there be anything that is so hot down there it could be used to defeat the dead?

Third:

We haven't been given information on how the Valyrians controlled their dragons. What if the magic-horn Euron found is nothing at all? What if Dragons are controlled by their riders by skinchanging or something akin to warg powers? That'd explain how one rider can only control one dragon, them being such powerful beings would rip the conscience who tried to control two dragons apart. Even Aegon only tried mounting Balerion, never the lesser dragons of his sisters. Why? Is there a deeper connection between rider and dragons besides a mind-bending horn?

Sorry if any of these questions has been answered before, I didn't find it.

And this is just food for thought, discuss away. ^_^

Well all those have been speculated on in one form or another in various threads, you can try a google search to yield some results.

[Masha's apron]

Winterfell, in Northern England, would mean Winter Mountains or Winter Hills -- coming from the old Norse word -- and Winterfell is just south of the Northern Mountains, so this would make sense.

The crypt thing interests me as well. I can't help feeling the slanted "nuclear bunker style" door and stairs to them is a bit odd; it doesn't seem like a typical entrance to a mausoleum. Again, the crypts are said to be cold, but the castle is built on natural hot springs and the crypts are inside the external walls and very near the first keep. And then there is the practice of burying from the lower reaches upwards.

But all this makes sense if the crypts were never built to be crypts, but instead a route out of the castle if either it or the surrounding countryside was under attack. I have a sneaky feeling that those crypts do indeed have something down there -- it is a passage out of the castle to *somewhere*.

This would then make sense in terms of the tombs. Using the passage as "crypts" then stops a lot of people nosing around and provides a cover for the slanted door in the ground. You also have the superstitious factor in case anyone finds their way in from the other side. It also allows you to use the space for a long time without digging downwards etc.

And part of me thinks that the crypts passage way could very well lead to the Wall.

[Blue_Bard]

"Fell" is also an archaic word meaning "Deadly." So Winterfell might be rendered as "the castle in the land of deadly winters"

[Prince of the North]

"Fell" is also an archaic word meaning "Deadly." So Winterfell might be rendered as "the castle in the land of deadly winters"

Yes, but Winterfell could also mean "place that is deadly to winter" or "home of those who are deadly to winter". Remember, the Stark words are a reminder to always be vigilant against the coming of winter ;)

[Pengwin7]

My thoughts:

re: "Winterfell".

It's in the north. Writers choose names for characters & places to give the reader an immediate identity.

Somebody would read the name Winterfell and think "cold".

As for the "fell", it could just be the point at which travelers starting to "feel"... or could just be where people from the south believe Winter might fall, around this location and north.

Also consider there is the location "Summerhall", to the south.

re: Crypts.

Again, I see it more as a writer reference.

GRRM uses it incredibly early in the story to convey Robert's memory of Lyanna - that he would want to pay homage to her tomb... even in such an undesireable location.

With the carving of the tomb, it gives GRRM the opportunity for Robert to recall on her beauty (vs. tomb carving).

And GRRM uses it in CoK w/Bran & Co.

I (personally) think this is the function of the "crypts" and need not serve any greater function.

re: Dragons.

I view them simply as a being to ride with a loyalty beyond that of a dog.

I don't feel any need for GRRM to give us any greater understanding of the person-dragon relationship & command-truths.

Great discussion points.

[JoeyBanana]

Why not, with the story revolving around undead, to keep the dead from leaving the crypts?

[Bridgeburners]

I always figured that the horn Euron found is like a sort of doggie whistle. It plays a sound at a frequency they're especially sensitive to. The whole part about it killing the blower might just be that if the dragon doesn't like you and you blow it, you're annoying it and it kills you. That might not apply to, say, someone to whom the dragon is loyal. Of course that's not entirely consistent with what we've heard explained, but those are all loosely interpreted versions of people who lived 300 years since the last dragon, so it's likely that what we've heard is not entirely right.

[natty bumppo]

Something is obviously up with the crypts. GRRM wouldn't introduce that particular detail about the order of the graves if there wasn't some significance to it. And it is hinted at in the books that it doesn't really matter whether the castleabove the ground is broken as long as the crypts are intact.

[Alia Atreides]

I would have to look regarding the Dragons as I am not sure if I read it here, on another forum or in the books but I believe with the Dragons; they only bond to one person once they are bonded to that person only they may ride them. Like with Dany and Drogon :)

[Kyotsyu]

I would have to look regarding the Dragons as I am not sure if I read it here, on another forum or in the books but I believe with the Dragons; they only bond to one person once they are bonded to that person only they may ride them. Like with Dany and Drogon :)

Indeed, and we also have knowledge of Dragons picking their own riders, even outside of House Targaryen.

Four people eventually succeeded: Vermithor was claimed by Hugh Hammer, Silverwing by Ulf the White, Seasmoke by Addam of Hull, and Sheepstealer by a girl named Nettles.

This happened during the Dance of the Dragons.

I really doubt an horn can bend a Dragon's willpower and force him to choose a rider, so I don't believe either Victarion or Euron will have much success with the horn.

[Ser Hodor Hodor of Hodor]

I always figured that the horn Euron found is like a sort of doggie whistle. It plays a sound at a frequency they're especially sensitive to. The whole part about it killing the blower might just be that if the dragon doesn't like you and you blow it, you're annoying it and it kills you. That might not apply to, say, someone to whom the dragon is loyal. Of course that's not entirely consistent with what we've heard explained, but those are all loosely interpreted versions of people who lived 300 years since the last dragon, so it's likely that what we've heard is not entirely right.

i think the horn killing the blower is a form of sacrifice, so the horns function probably has something to do with (blood-)magic. we know valyrians practiced magic, so it would make sense to use some when taming dragons.

but back to winterfell:

i think the name has some deeper meaning, but i don't think grrm would use some refrence to old languags none of his readers speaks. i'm pretty sure it will make perfect sense when it is revealed, but for now it is pure speculationwhat it could mean exactly.

the thingabout the crypts is strange. i tend to believe they were not build after the castle, but rather at the same time or even before. bran the builder wouldn't need to dig deep tunnels as a crypt whe he was the founder of the house, it probably just became the crypts when people forgot its real purpose. so it is not unlikely that it has somthing to do with the others.

it is also intersting that there seem to be some volcanic activities, similar to valyria, which might indicate that it could have to do with magic too. it also might b the reason someone started to dig there (this was done in valyria too)

[Kyotsyu]

i think the horn killing the blower is a form of sacrifice, so the horns function probably has something to do with (blood-)magic. we know valyrians practiced magic, so it would make sense to use some when taming dragons.

but back to winterfell:

i think the name has some deeper meaning, but i don't think grrm would use some refrence to old languags none of his readers speaks. i'm pretty sure it will make perfect sense when it is revealed, but for now it is pure speculationwhat it could mean exactly.

the thingabout the crypts is strange. i tend to believe they were not build after the castle, but rather at the same time or even before. bran the builder wouldn't need to dig deep tunnels as a crypt whe he was the founder of the house, it probably just became the crypts when people forgot its real purpose. so it is not unlikely that it has somthing to do with the others.

it is also intersting that there seem to be some volcanic activities, similar to valyria, which might indicate that it could have to do with magic too. it also might b the reason someone started to dig there (this was done in valyria too)

I think the valyrians dug huge mines for gold. The Winterfell Crypts sound more like a defensive structure to me. If the castle was under siege by enemy forces, be it living or dead, they could, incase the walls fall, hold for a LONG time in there going lower and lower. As someone said earlier, it might have a tunnel leading somewhere too. Maybe the crypt was built hugely to discourage anyone from going to the lower levels, where something was hidden until this day.