Comics X: The Great Ten

[Serious Callers Only]

I'd prefer vertigo/image continuing being vertigo/image instead of their talent and ideas being wasted on the superhero universes.

Yes, i'm being snobby about comics, i feel entitled.

Did you see what they did to Constantine? Justice League Dark ffs.

Can't wait until Axis ends so I can go back to (hopefully) reading a great Magneto title.

The first 7 or 8 issues of the title were really, really fantastic. Then it had to start tying into Axis, and while Bunn has done an admirable job of trying to make it interesting, it's just not. I'm so fucking tired of events killing the momentum of interesting titles. Magneto was a freight train of terror and intensity and then Marvel did what Marvel can't help but do.

Agree completely. Shared universes ruin comics. Screw your nerd hoarding instinct, it's just bad. Most the good subversions come from mocking this, like the mentioned superior foes of spider man, where he doesn't appear.

[red snow]

I'd say that many of Marvel's best and best-known ladies are X-Ladies, and they've been pretty reluctant to solo any of them (Storm's current solo? her first). G. Willow Wilson taking over Adjectiveless is a good sign. Captain Marvel has the noisy Carol Corps, but as the A. V. Club says today in the "Save She-Hulk" article, "It’s become clear that online buzz doesn’t translate to print sales, and because digital sales numbers are kept a secret, there’s no way of gauging whether or not social media fervor has any impact on digital sales." Ms. Marvel sells well digitally--no numbers, but it's in the Top Ten on Comixology via that sidebar--but Captain...Marvel wants a Wonder Woman that they own for movies, and they want it badly.

I think all the minis are sold as ongoings now as they realised people are even more likley to skim a mini-series. The only minis we get now are crossover lynchpins so I'm utterly convince most of these lower tier books are meant to be just that a trade.

You nail Marvel's female dilemma on the head. Their best and most prominent female characters are X-men and they aren't supposed to promote Fox products. I suspect a lot of these "ongoings" will disappear come the next X-men film if they haven't already been cancelled.

Carol Danvers is an interesting character but she doesn't really work that well as a Wonder Woman analogue. Then again, I'm not sure you'd want to be a Wonder Woman given the success of that character of late.

Can't wait until Axis ends so I can go back to (hopefully) reading a great Magneto title.

The first 7 or 8 issues of the title were really, really fantastic. Then it had to start tying into Axis, and while Bunn has done an admirable job of trying to make it interesting, it's just not. I'm so fucking tired of events killing the momentum of interesting titles. Magneto was a freight train of terror and intensity and then Marvel did what Marvel can't help but do.

Well, they probably got a sales bump for the tie-in which will only last while the tie-in occurs. In the meantime they lose regular readers resulting in lower sales after the event. Then Marvel scratches its head and concludes "we need to tie it into another event". You can see how the flawed logic works and leads to a spiral where everything is always tied into an event. Going back to the original point it's also likely they only commissioned a second arc of magneto late in the day meaning issues 7 onwards were rushed.

I'm sure as soon as Axis ends - we'll get 2 months of "Axis aftermath" followed by "prelude to secret wars" and then we'll have "secret wars" and what looks like a shit-ton of every event Marvel has ever done as spin offs. Sucks to be a magneto/marvel fan.

[red snow]

I'd prefer vertigo/image continuing being vertigo/image instead of their talent and ideas being wasted on the superhero universes.

Yes, i'm being snobby about comics, i feel entitled.

Did you see what they did to Constantine? Justice League Dark ffs.

The fact you refer to them now as vertigo/image shows how far the imprint has fallen. Image is Vertigo now and that's where all the vertigo style creators go. The deals are far, far better and there's enough hype around the imprint that they probably make as much as they would have under the vertigo umbrella of old.

I'd argue the new Batman editor was being wasted at vertigo as there is F-all for him to do there now no-one wants to pitch to them. It's sadly the equivalent of Marvel's epic line. Having him over in DC means he can actually use his talents. Who knows, maybe he'll get his hands on Constantine and Swamp thing and work some of the old vertigo magic there?

I don't really begrudge DC taking back characters that were originally DC characters until they wound up in Vertigo. I much prefer their vertigo versions but I guess there may have been folk who liked them pre-vertigo too. I'd be more upset when Sandman becomes part of DC (which i know is sort of how he started but he quickly became part of his own universe) or Preacher (that would almost be worth it just to see the train-wreck interpretation)

[Serious Callers Only]

I agree image is really hitting it out of the park lately, from the ones i've read. Except Morning Glories, which is a repugnant edgy Lost clone (just the last makes it automatically bad).

Fatale is great, Saga is great, the Fuse is great, Velvet is great, Sex Criminals is ok, Trees is ok, Rocket Girl is ok, Thief of Thieves is ok.

I disagree that Vertigo characters will fare better in the main DC universe, ofc, this is my religion. Even with the best of intentions it will turn to shit. Storylines will interact which have no business doing so, references to inane events will be penned, guest characters will appear to teamup, retcons du jour will crap on continuity and epicness will happen to ruin good things.

_{Not to mention i don't really like superhero comics anymore}

[red snow]

I agree image is really hitting it out of the park lately, from the ones i've read. Except Morning Glories, which is a repugnant edgy Lost clone (just the last makes it automatically bad).

Fatale is great, Saga is great, the Fuse is great, Velvet is great, Sex Criminals is ok, Trees is ok, Rocket Girl is ok, Thief of Thieves is ok.

I disagree that Vertigo characters will fare better in the main DC universe, ofc, this is my religion. Even with the best of intentions it will turn to shit. Storylines will interact which have no business doing so, references to inane events will be penned, guest characters will appear to teamup, retcons du jour will crap on continuity and epicness will happen to ruin good things.

_{Not to mention i don't really like superhero comics anymore}

The great thing about Image is the variety, there's something for everyone. If you read marvel and dc you have to like superheroes (DC maybe dabbles in horror but under the guise of superheroes).

I didn't mean to sound like I think the Vertigo characters will work better at DC - merely that some of them were initially DC characters so it's within their right to do so. It would never happen but it would be like Batman being part of vertigo and then never being allowed back,

With the watered down TV shows popping up it's understandable that these properties are being brought back into the general DCU in an attempt to give all groups a chance to read about the character. When vertigo books start winding up on cable where they can be "adult" then I'd hope they push said characters in a vertigo book

[Serious Callers Only]

Eh, Batman exclusively vertigo would be something apocalyptic to the fans of the universe. It would be very amusing. And yes, the most that attracts me to the 'adult' imprints is the kind of stories the superhero universes are ill-equipped to handle. Most of the rest is the intensely annoying feeling that a superpowered character with a massive storyline distorting history will parachute in any day now to help out, even if the story protagonist is not one.

Last superhero comic i thought combined horror semi-successfully with a main line hero was Illyanna and the X-men, but of course i can't take it seriously when i think about the other Belasco/X-men stories i've seen over the years.

I forgot to mention Powers as a exception from my superhero hate even though it's a massive brand new superpowered universe - i think its MO of being a police procedural saves it a bit.

Smaller publishers are putting out good stuff too.

Queen & Country is pretty good, Rachel Rising was amusing.

[red snow]

Eh, Batman exclusively vertigo would be something apocalyptic to the fans of the universe. It would be very amusing. And yes, the most that attracts me to the 'adult' imprints is the kind of stories the superhero universes are ill-equipped to handle. Most of the rest is the intensely annoying feeling that a superpowered character with a massive storyline distorting history will parachute in any day now to help out, even if the story protagonist is not one.

Last superhero comic i thought combined horror semi-successfully with a main line hero was Illyanna and the X-men, but of course i can't take it seriously when i think about the other Belasco stories i've seen over the years.

Animal Man wasn't so bad after the DC relaunch but it wasn't really superhero at all.

Batman would have to fail spectacularly to wind up at vertigo. As a rule you only wind up their if you have constantly failed to catch on,

[Little Valkyrie]

Carol Danvers is an interesting character but she doesn't really work that well as a Wonder Woman analogue. Then again, I'm not sure you'd want to be a Wonder Woman given the success of that character of late.

The annoying thing to me is that KSD has taken all of the interest OUT of Carol Danvers by how she's set her up. Carol is now somehow the premiere female hero in the Marvel Universe, with legions of fangirls...and we never got to see any of that happen. She was more interesting back in the days of Busiek, where she was something of a fuck-up trying to make good, not sure where she fit in. I can never quite get that Bendis-written panel of her with the "KILL YOURSELF" thought bubble out of my mind.

I like shared universes in comics. It's just hard to do when it's event after event, and when some writers don't play well with others.

[Lady Octarina]

I think all the minis are sold as ongoings now as they realised people are even more likley to skim a mini-series. The only minis we get now are crossover lynchpins so I'm utterly convince most of these lower tier books are meant to be just that a trade.

Except for Longshot Saves the Marvel U and All-New Doop, that I can remember, but I think that was a case of "nobody will believe these are ongoings anyway, so why bother tricking them?"; plus, their being part of the X-Men universe. Otherwise, they would have admitted that books like Iron Patriot were just limited series, or the upcoming Squirrel Girl (still hard to believe that's actually a thing).

You nail Marvel's female dilemma on the head. Their best and most prominent female characters are X-men and they aren't supposed to promote Fox products. I suspect a lot of these "ongoings" will disappear come the next X-men film if they haven't already been cancelled.

Carol Danvers is an interesting character but she doesn't really work that well as a Wonder Woman analogue. Then again, I'm not sure you'd want to be a Wonder Woman given the success of that character of late.

Sadly true. The only Marvel character who could believably become Marvel's Wonder Woman is Storm, but, as you said, her being an X-Man means they will never bother investing enough on promoting the character to make that happen (plus, how her marriage to Black Panther made her a lot less relevant in their universe for almost a decade, and a lot of new readers can't see how amazing she is because of that). So why not a character that carries "Marvel" on her name, and also serves to annoy DC, right?

Regardless of all that, I'm still happy to live at a time when Kamala Khan is among their most popular characters (and probably one of their best-selling solo series as a whole), and even has a chance of starring her own movie or TV show (I'd say TV - or Netflix, actually - would work better for her, more freedom and an easier way to connect with the generation that sees itself on her).

I'd be more upset when Sandman becomes part of DC (which i know is sort of how he started but he quickly became part of his own universe) or Preacher (that would almost be worth it just to see the train-wreck interpretation)

:rofl:

Well, it would be almost worth it just for the Cassidy/Harley Quinn crossover.

The annoying thing to me is that KSD has taken all of the interest OUT of Carol Danvers by how she's set her up. Carol is now somehow the premiere female hero in the Marvel Universe, with legions of fangirls...and we never got to see any of that happen. She was more interesting back in the days of Busiek, where she was something of a fuck-up trying to make good, not sure where she fit in. I can never quite get that Bendis-written panel of her with the "KILL YOURSELF" thought bubble out of my mind.

:agree:

[Little Valkyrie]

I don't really begrudge DC taking back characters that were originally DC characters until they wound up in Vertigo. I much prefer their vertigo versions but I guess there may have been folk who liked them pre-vertigo too. I'd be more upset when Sandman becomes part of DC (which i know is sort of how he started but he quickly became part of his own universe) or Preacher (that would almost be worth it just to see the train-wreck interpretation)

Hah, and here I've always had a grudge against what Neil Gaiman did in Sandman for what he did to Lyta Hall.

[red snow]

:rofl:

Well, it would be almost worth it just for the Cassidy/Harley Quinn crossover.

:agree:

They could both play Wil E coyote style pranks on Herr Starr. Imagine the retcon potential Preacher could have too.

[GallowKnight]

They could both play Wil E coyote style pranks on Herr Starr. Imagine the retcon potential Preacher could have too.

I wonder if we'd get The Saint of Killers kills the DC Universe(all of them)?

[Little Valkyrie]

Every time I think I can't dislike Bendis any more than I already do, he pushes it just that little bit further.

[Sci-2]

Every time I think I can't dislike Bendis any more than I already do, he pushes it just that little bit further.

?

[Little Valkyrie]

?

Guardians of the Galaxy reveal of how Star-Lord is alive. It's one thing to fudge and play with continuity when you're picking up something that's been sitting fallow for a long time, it's another thing to write a DIRECT SEQUEL to something that came out in 2010 and not even try to line up events, causalities, characterization, and then to do it all in three horribly decompressed issues of "whack the cosmic cube".

[Nictarion]

Saga #24 was really good. Best issue in a while. Sucks it's going on hiatus again. It's hands down my favorite title right now.

Black Science #10 was pretty good too. Just when I was thinking about dropping it, we get an issue that cleared some stuff up, and was actually possible to follow. I think I'll stay with it for now.

[Bastard of Boston]

I finally got around to reading Fraction's Hawkeye to the current issue. People weren't bullshitting. This series is so much fun. I hope Lemire can maintain the magic.

I am finding Axis to be ridiculous so far. In general, I have not liked Remender's take on the Avengers characters. Loved him on Uncanny X-Force, so really disappointing. I hated Original Sin, and this is shaping up to be another dud.

[red snow]

Black Science #10 was pretty good too. Just when I was thinking about dropping it, we get an issue that cleared some stuff up, and was actually possible to follow. I think I'll stay with it for now.

Perfect timing as this was the make or break issue for me. I agree it was actually coherent enough to follow in terms of who, what and where. The bits that I couldn't follow I liked as a mystery eg all the versions of the dad (I assume?)

I finally got around to reading Fraction's Hawkeye to the current issue. People weren't bullshitting. This series is so much fun. I hope Lemire can maintain the magic.

It really is -although I can see how the mindnumbing slowness in terms of plot and publication have worn folk out, I've been on board since August last year and have given up,waiting for the arc to finish before continuing.

I hope Lemire can keep to a schedule but more importantly keep the style, I find it funny he's just finished writing Green Arrow though,

[Jon AS]

It really is -although I can see how the mindnumbing slowness in terms of plot and publication have worn folk out, I've been on board since August last year and have given up,waiting for the arc to finish before continuing.

I hope Lemire can keep to a schedule but more importantly keep the style, I find it funny he's just finished writing Green Arrow though,

I've been wondering what happened to this, it was the one ongoing series I'd decided to stick with and then it just seemed to stop a few months ago. So it wasn't cancelled, but Fraction dropped it and somebody else is picking it up?

[Little Valkyrie]

I've been wondering what happened to this, it was the one ongoing series I'd decided to stick with and then it just seemed to stop a few months ago. So it wasn't cancelled, but Fraction dropped it and somebody else is picking it up?

Massive delays with Fraction or Aja or both; it's ending, and being relaunched with Lemire/Perez as the creative team.