The House of Pahl Poisoned the Honeyed Locusts for Strong Belwas

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

So, did you make the youtube video, or just copy everything from it?

If you did make it, good work you are a goddamned genius.

Yeah, that's mine.

I like bouncing ideas off the community before I make videos.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

There is an alternative explanation as to what drew Drogon back to Meereen:

I believe he was responding to Dany's inner conflict.

Drogon's bond to her:

She had not yet ridden Drogon but the two were still bonded somehow with him being the one dragon who had always been closest to her, ridden on her shoulder, accompanied her to the House of the Undying, saved her there, burned several of her enemies etc.

Also his name suggests this, deriving from her lover Khal Drogo.

Dany's conflict:

Dany has two sides: She is a conqueror, but she is also a saviour.

The Meereenese knot is about Danys 2 sides conflicting with each other. She has conquered and now her saviour side come to the fore, tempting her to sacrifice herself - or rather sacrificing her conqueror side - in the sake of compromise for the best of her people.

But this went against her own instincts. The Meereenese chapters make it clear how much she hated having to make all these compromises instead of going the 'conqueror's' way - the violent way. She constantly had to persuade herself the peace she was achieving was worth all the sacrifices she made. Still she obviously hated it.

Now it all culminated in the wedding ceremony and the reopening of the fighting pits. The awful scenes going on there nearly pushed her over the edge. She actually stopped some performances because they demanded too much (compromise) from her. Still on her own she didn't have it in her to resolve the conflict. She was trapped in it.

The resolution:

In this kind of showdown-situation her dragon comes and rescues her. Carries her out of the catch-22 trap she was in, away from the people and their demands on her, keeps her from sacrificing herself.

And in the end we see her returning to her other - violent - side, symbolized by her dragon and incorporated by the words of her house: Fire and blood. And we hear 'The dragon plants no trees'.

Whether this resolution is a good or a bad thing is arguable and this thread isn't the place for that. I leave that open.

I think we see this resolution foreshadowed in the House of the Undying: Dany has the vision of 10.000 slaves of Yunkai calling her mother and grabbing her - and then it turns out they aren't just cherishing her - they are draining her, trying to take her fire for themselves, forcing her to sacrifice herself to them (in the shape of the Undying). And there already Drogon - her violent side - comes forth and rescues her.

The same repeats in the pits of Meereen.

The poor pig - and the pit-fighter- were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The dragon was coming anyway (subconsciously called by Dany) and couldn't resist when he noticed the blood in the pit.

That's certainly possible. I just like searching for non-magical explanations first. Dany definitely feels weird in the pit.

That said, so much time is put into describing the dragon's feeding patterns and their taste. Why did drogon go for pork? Why did strong belwas go for locusts. Tastes are a theme and this was the best explanation I could come up with.

But the info we are given is sparse. Someone could have just cast a spell. Or dany could have just "spoke" to drogon.

[cocoalover1956]

2. The Pale Mare

Next we have the Pale Mare.

He came out of the morning mists, a rider on a pale horse, dying. His mare was staggering as she approached the city gates, her sides pink with blood and lather, her eyes rolling with terror. Her rider called out, She is burning, she is burning, and fell from the saddle. This one was sent for, and gave orders that the rider be brought to the Blue Graces. When your servants carried him inside the gates, he cried out again, She is burning. Under his tokar he was a skeleton, all bones and fevered flesh. (Daenerys V, ADwD)

Now, the Blue Graces say the man comes from Astapor.

She is burning, Daenerys repeated. Who is she?

Astapor, Your Radiance, said another of the Blue Graces. He said it, once. He said Astapor is burning. (Daenerys V, ADwD)

And we are led to believe that this man is from Astapor because Quentyn and Windblown talk about a flux and refugees:

What Astapori still survive have come creeping from their hidey-holes, it seems. Theres nothing left in Astapor but corpses, so theyre pouring out into the countryside, hundreds of them, maybe thousands, all starved and sick. The Yunkaii dont want them near their Yellow City. Weve been commanded to hunt them down and turn them, drive them back to Astapor or north to Meereen. If the dragon queen wants to take them in, shes welcome to them. Half of them have the bloody flux, and even the healthy ones are mouths to feed. (The Windblown, ADwD)

Except, the Blue Graces are lying. He's not from Astapor.

He wears a tokar.

Under his tokar he was a skeleton (Daenerys V, ADwD)

Tokars are an upper-class grament and incredibly impractical.

Walking in a tokar demanded small, mincing steps and exquisite balance, lest one tread upon those heavy trailing fringes. It was not a garment meant for any man who had to work.The tokar was a masters garment, a sign of wealth and power. (Daenerys I, ADwD)

And we know the fate of the upper class of Astapor. They were enslaved.

The Butcher King had restored slavery to Astapor, the only change being that the former slaves were now the masters and the former masters were now the slaves. (Daenerys I, ADwD)

So, an Astapori in a tokar makes no sense. A master-turned-slave would not be able to work in a tokar. And a slave-turned-master would not have the practice to function in a tokar and find it chaffing.

"She is burning." is not referring to Astapor. It's something else.

Now, what is interesting is that the colors of the man are pink and white:

He came out of the morning mists, a rider on a pale horse, dying. His mare was staggering as she approached the city gates, her sides pink with blood and lather" (Daenerys V, ADwD)

These are the colors of House Pahl:

Pahl were striped in pink and white (Daenerys IX, ADwD)

So, we have some big questions here too:

1) Now, if not Astapor, what is burning? It evokes the dragons, but how?

2) Why were the Blue Graces lying?

3) If the pale male isn't related to the plague, what was Quaithe warning Dany about?

[bemused]

In my opinion , the locusts weren't intended to kill anyone. No one would have assumed that one person would eat the whole bowlful. I think they were an abortifacient, to insure that Dany would not be bearing a child of Daario's. Anyone who wasn't pregnant would still have nausea, bad stomach cramps and diarrhea.. but they would just think it was food poisoning - it was a hot day , after all. These are the symptoms Belwas had..but big time , because of the amount he consumed. They are also the symptoms Dany had after eating the green berries ..and voila! she also started her menses ,which seems to have been late ... or she miscarried. Dany hadn't been paying strict attention to her cycle because she believed she couldn't get pregnant ( see MMD ).

In fact , they probably hoped a number of people would try the locusts.. it would all seem more innocent.. just unfortunate, not aimed at anyone.

Hizdar says on their wedding night that he hopes he and Dany will conceive that night . This isn't true , because of her affair with Daario. ...Remember,they tried to get Dany to subject herself to an examination by the Graces and Hizdahr's female relations ,and eat the special cake that only women could eat ( which may have had the same effect as the locusts ). When she refuses, they have no way of even guessing whether she might be pregnant or not.. and so a secret abortifacient is in order. It certainly would be true that he would hope they would conceive soon after the locusts had done their work.

It's the same old story ; they want an heir from Dany. Hizdahr is not just a consort, but has enviegled his way to being recognised as co -ruler. Dany's life would surely be in danger once an heir was provided. They ( Loraq, the GG , and no doubt the other great families) would then kill the dragons , and hope to control Dany's followers through her child. ( So sad that she died soon after giving birth .)

[Ulthosian Stark]

That's certainly possible. I just like searching for non-magical explanations first. Dany definitely feels weird in the pit.

That said, so much time is put into describing the dragon's feeding patterns and their taste. Why did drogon go for pork? Why did strong belwas go for locusts. Tastes are a theme and this was the best explanation I could come up with.

But the info we are given is sparse. Someone could have just cast a spell. Or dany could have just "spoke" to drogon.

Isn't saying "someone could have just cast a spell" a very magical (and broad) explanation? Lol just saying, she for sure has a bond with Drogon more so then the others, I've thought it was their connection that made him return, and the roast pork was just a "right place right time" situation.

Drogon feels Dany is in distress, comes, notices a nice looking meal in a bloody arena, takes it out real quick, etc

Other then that though I do LOVE your theory on House Pahl being behind the poison. It does make sense in a good and very ASOIAF way, especially seeing as most of the men of the family who could have fought SB are dead. A man like Belwas would be accustomed to going for the meaty snacks (insects are like the beef jerky of where they are traditionally eaten in the real world, think chapulines in Mexico) and expected to, over fiddling around with fruit

[Nictarion]

The OP makes a strong case. I won't say I'm totally convinced, but it makes rethink things a bit.

Another bit of evidence I didn't see in your post that could go with your theory is that we're told in the books that poison is a woman's weapon (except Oberyn). And the Pahls are a "House of Women" now.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

The OP makes a strong case. I won't say I'm totally convinced, but it makes rethink things a bit.

Another bit of evidence I didn't see in your post that could go with your theory is that we're told in the books that poison is a woman's weapon (except Oberyn). And the Pahls are a "House of Women" now.

That was the first thing that came to my mind when I found out about the poison, my first suspect was the Green Grace, but since the Pahls are all women it makes sense they are responsible.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

I thought about this and was going to make a thread about it! Good to know it already exists.

I always wondered why did George always mentioned how all the Pahls are women and bitter and vengeful. I think they have to serve a purpose after all these foreshadowing and I agree that the poisoning of the locusts was their deed but I'm not sure if it was for Dany or Belwas, both makes sense.

And I don't really hate Hizdarh. I genuinely believe that he and GG wants peace and are trying to create a new Meereen with a changed culture . I'm not sure if they want to continue to be slavers (I guess they do), but they want to do it in a different Meereen. As Hizdarh said, Dany awaked Meereenese with fire and blood and it's time to change. Change is not always evil or something and that's why I believe that GRRM will solve Meereenese knot in a perfect way, I don't think she will just abondon it or burn in to the ground.

[Mithras]

The revelation that Lysa was the poisoner of Jon Arryn shocked many of us, though the evidences were there: Tears of Lys vs. Lysa. Only one less than a man use poison. Alyssa’s tears etc.

That is why I can buy this theory or the abortifacient theory of bemused, though for the case of abortion, I think they could have chosen a better time. As I wrote in the other thread, I think Shavepate poisoned the locusts with mild nightshade enough to make a nasty diarrhea but not meant to kill.

[Ygritte]

snip

I really like this theory! I did wonder why there was the random stop in the road, and this makes perfect sense. Especially since Dany chose Belwas specifically to be an embarrassment to the slavers if he won. Good job.

[bemused]

The revelation that Lysa was the poisoner of Jon Arryn shocked many of us, though the evidences were there: Tears of Lys vs. Lysa. Only one less than a man use poison. Alyssa’s tears etc.

That is why I can buy this theory or the abortifacient theory of bemused, though for the case of abortion, I think they could have chosen a better time. As I wrote in the other thread, I think Shavepate poisoned the locusts with mild nightshade enough to make a nasty diarrhea but not meant to kill.

In regard to the timing , don't forget that they wouldn't have expected Dany, the Queen, to pig out on them in public, like Belwas.. she would have daintily nibbled a few through the afternoon and aborted later..not right there in the arena.

[Hupo Storm]

Sweetrobin,i love your videos(theories),man.

I agree with this theory,the locusts were for Belwas.

About the Drogon part i have to say i was really surprised when it appeared in the pit.After several chapters missing,it appears in a fateful moment,we have to admit it looks really suspicious.

[Ghosts Lunch]

Me neither, just that I found Hizdahr's actions suspicious. Maybe he didn't intend to kill Dany, but there is something fishy about him.

The Mountain vs House Martell was the first thing that came to my mind while reading the original post. Maybe the news of Oberyn poisoning Mountain even reached the Pahls, who might have liked the idea.

Dany may have considered him dispensable, but given how they admire pitfighting, Meereenese people must have viewed Strong Belwas as a valuable ally of Dany who had to be removed. What I like best about your theory is it is really smart, proving everyone wrong, since most people naturally assumes it was meant to poison Dany. If OP is right, the poisoning was a double bluff.

He is suspicious, I believe that could be explained by him being one of the main people behind the Sons of the Harpy but much of his power in the new order is derived from dany

Interestingly though, Quaithe tells Dany trust none of a variety of characters from pale mare, Kraken (Victarion), Black Flame (Moqorro), Lion (Tyrion - which won't please a number of people I'd imagine), the Griffin (Jon Connington), Suns son (Quentyn) and Mummers Dragon (fAegon)

But mentions nothing of Hizdahr specifically, there is the 'beware perfumed seneschal' but Reznak could be undermining Hizdahr just as much as Dany, namely Hizdahr has mentioned a desire for sweeping away the old order, but what the Shavepate is accusing Hizdahr of re killing the Dragons and allowing the Yunkai'i in could actually really be applied to the Shavepate

Some great research by the OP, nearly poisoning the monarchs seems a bit of a stretch just to get at an old Pit Fighter one would think but they certainly have a motive after the way he humiliated their champion

[Ghosts Lunch]

The OP makes a strong case. I won't say I'm totally convinced, but it makes rethink things a bit.

Another bit of evidence I didn't see in your post that could go with your theory is that we're told in the books that poison is a woman's weapon (except Oberyn). And the Pahls are a "House of Women" now.

Oberyn put his poison on the end of a spear though, tbf to him /uselessfact

3) If the pale male isn't related to the plague, what was Quaithe warning Dany about?

She would be warning her about the plague, delivered on the pale mare, but what is behind the Pale Mare/plague may not be as it seems, eg if some of the old order of Mereen like the Pahls know the Yunkai are set to sack their city, it could be they want to undermine the besieging Yunkai armies just as much as Dany

[Direwolf Blitzer]

Who poisoned the honeyed locusts? The Shavepate claims Hizdahr tried to poison Dany. However, Hizdahr really lacks a motive for that. So, others have theorized that the Shavepate was trying to poison Hizdahr.

<snip>

Selmy is pretty convinced that Hizdahr is the Harpy himself. And if he's not the Harpy, he certainly has a lot of pull with the Harpy. (He does seem to get them to stop their killings long enough for Dany to assent to the pits being reopened).

No, I think Hizdahr has plenty of motive. He wants Dany and the dragons dead, and he wants Meereen to return to a peaceful, stable, slavery-loving place, over which he will preside as King.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

Oberyn put his poison on the end of a spear though, tbf to him /uselessfact

She would be warning her about the plague, delivered on the pale mare, but what is behind the Pale Mare/plague may not be as it seems, eg if some of the old order of Mereen like the Pahls know the Yunkai are set to sack their city, it could be they want to undermine the besieging Yunkai armies just as much as Dany

The man on the pale mare did not come from astapor, so he couldn't have had the plague. He wore a tokar and was days ahead of the other refugees.

I think quaithe is trying to build Dany's trust by "prophesizing" things.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

Selmy is pretty convinced that Hizdahr is the Harpy himself. And if he's not the Harpy, he certainly has a lot of pull with the Harpy. (He does seem to get them to stop their killings long enough for Dany to assent to the pits being reopened).

No, I think Hizdahr has plenty of motive. He wants Dany and the dragons dead, and he wants Meereen to return to a peaceful, stable, slavery-loving place, over which he will preside as King.

Hizdahr's only trusted allies in the city are freedmen. There is no way he wants slavery back.

[Hos the Hostage]

OP: A really detailed analysis, kudos. The "women do not forget" part from Dany POV struck me as important, so you may be upto something.

But, I posted this in a thread on the future of Arch and Drink: Why couldn't it be Gerris who did the posioning? Quentyn's ultimate goal appears to be to gain control over dragons("She is not the ends, but the means to the end"), but Gerris was always concerned about getting Dany to marry Quentyn.

[Arya Weinergaryen]

I cannot say I am totally convinced, but your evidence is very well presented and quite compelling. I will have to think on this some. The idea of the locusts being intended to ensure Dany was not carrying a child from previous dalliances is also intriguing.

[HexMachina]

Hizdahr's only trusted allies in the city are freedmen. There is no way he wants slavery back.

His only true allies are the Pit Fighters. The Companies of Freedmen are Dany's, as are the Unsullied. The Shavepate controls the Brazen Beasts, even when Marghaz is put in.charge.