*POSSIBLE SPOILERS* - A Theory regarding Jon Snow

[Orson Iceheart]

While watching some of the older episodes, I realized that the issue of Jon Snow's parentage has not come up in some time. However, a few ideas about the topic have come to mind, and I wnodered if I might get a bit of feedback on the matter. I should point out that I only recently joined the forums, so I have no idea whether my idea may have been previously discussed. If so, please let me know... politely.

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All we know about Jon Snow's parentage is that Jon Snow was brought to Winterfell by Eddard (Ned) Stark, after returning from helping win Robert's Rebellion. Ned claimed the boy as his own, although because he was not born of his wife, Katelynn (Kat), Jon had to remain "Jon Snow" and not "Jon Stark". We know that Kat resented Jon's existence ever since Jon's arrival in Winterfell, seeing him as proof of Ned's infidelity.

However... what if Jon Snow isn't proof of infidelity, because he wasn't Ned's son at all? What if Jon Snow is actually the son of Ned's dead sister, Lyanna, and her kidnapper, Rhaegar Targaryen?

HISTORY - Robert's Rebellion against King Aegon (the Mad King) was due to Rhaegar's impassioned kidnapping of Ned's sister, who was betrothed to Robert Baratheon. During all of the Rebellion, Lyanna was hidden away. But, after the fall of King's Landing and the purging of the Targaryens and their supporters, Ned tracks Lyanna down to the Tower of Joy in Dorne, where Ned and five retainers (of which only one - Howland Reed - survived) fought & defeated three loyal knights. When the victorious Ned entered the tower, he found Lyanna in a "bed of blood". The dying Lyanna then extracts a mysterious promise from Ned before she dies. After Lyanna's death, Ned returns to Winterfell, suddenly accompanied by a small baby.

THEORY - When he entered the tower, Ned found Lyanna in the process of giving birth to Jon, a birth Lyanna did not survive; she did, however, live long enough to make Ned promise to take care of the boy. So why did Ned name Jon as his bastard and not his sister's? Because of who the father had to have been: Rhaegar Targaryen. Remember that Ned Stark had come to the tower from the Sacking of King's Landing. He had just seen the entire Targaryen family wiped out, even to the point of killing babies, so as to prevent future claimants vying for the throne. (Only the pregnant Queen Rhaella and her son Viserys managed to escape.) Therefore, Ned knew that if the child's true heritage were ever discovered, he would surely be killed in order to protect the new Baratheon dynasty. Given his lack of reaction at the slaughter of the Targaryen babies, Robert would surely have killed Rhaegar's son, even if it was also the issue of the woman he loved. Knowing all that, Ned Stark would surely have assumed the claim of fatherhood by an unknown mother, no matter how it affected Kat.

CLUES:

- Any resemblance of Jon to Ned. Of course, he may well be the uncle, not the father, but some resemblance might still be there.

- Ned cannot remember the events at the tower in Dorne; all he can remember is that he made his sister a promise.

- During the last time they would ever talk, Ned promised that he would tell Jon about his sister. Did Ned judge that Jon had become mature enough to be able to deal with his dangerous parentage? Or is it that, when they next met, Jon would have officially joined the Night's Watch, thereby permanently forfeiting any blood claim to the Iron Throne?

-.It's funny, though, that in all their years together, Ned never said a word to Jon about his mother, even to make a claim about who she was or what she did.

- There is only one other person who could know what happened at the Tower of Joy that day: Stark's surviving bannerman, Howland Reed, someone we have yet to see directly in either the books or the television show. Could it be a convenient absence?

- While Howland Reed does not appear, his children, Meera and Jojen, give aid to Bran Stark. When the families' shared history is mentioned, Jojen reveals that his father NEVER talked about the Rebellion, Not even to his own son? Now that is loyalty and discretion... not to mention some very powerful secret may be hidden in Howland's memories.

[Mladen]

Welcome to the forums, Orson...

I totally buy this... Well done... However, R+L=J

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Mind = blown

ETA: Seriously though, kudos for working this out by yourself if you did. Most of us aren't so perceptive.

[Nic.]

Quite glad to see another person get to this theory on their own by watching the show and reading the books congrats. You can find more info from the R + L = J thread though.

[Kienn]

Pretty ridiculous, if this were true then we would know by now.

[Bael's Bastard]

Jon Snow was born to midichlorians and an axlotl tank. It is known.

[Red Wedding Cake]

Season 1 Episode 1: Jon is leaving for the Nights Watch and asks Ned about his mother. Ned tears up, says another time and "you may not have my name, but you have my blood."

It also puts Neds defense of Daenerys in a different light.

[oursisthefury69]

I'm pretty sure its physically impossible to not see this theory before making an account and thread on here. "If so please let me know..... politely" certainly implies a previous knowledge of predictable reactions, and overall knowledge that its been discussed before

[TheHouseHB]

:cheers:

[WalkerDragon]

I'm pretty sure its physically impossible to not see this theory before making an account and thread on here. "If so please let me know..... politely" certainly implies a previous knowledge of predictable reactions, and overall knowledge that its been discussed before

I kinda agree. I've seen 3 or four of these "I found a new theory R+L=J".

Maybe the OP actually figured it out by himself but after the other 3 people i'm skeptical

[Sword of the Morgan]

This is a very well-established theory, but nice job if you came up with it on your own.

[The Santa of House Claus]

First welcome to the Forum, but sadly you are a little behind the times with that theory, it is one of the more easy to deduce theories out there (many seem to regard it as fact, it has been kicked around so much), but kudos for thinking it through like you did. Though, and I may be wrong here, but didn't Ned have 6 companions, it was 7 on 3? And I thought it was Ned that never talked of the Rebellion, Howland had talked to his kids about it? I may be wrong on both accounts, I have a few other books I want to read before rereading ASOIAF again.

Second, I would like to point out how polite most of the people are on here, welcoming new members and not taking him to task for posting a theory that has pretty much been beaten to death here. I know of several other forums where those kinds of manners are lost (cough, Star Wars, cough).

Third, to run down some of the more talked about Jon's parentage theories:

R+L=J - they ran away together, Song of Ice and Fire is fulfilled in Jon

R+L=J - R kidnapped L either because he is the crown prince and can get away with it, or because he saw L as Ice to his Fire

N+A=J - which is why Ashara Dayne killed herself, because the father of her child killed her brother

N+W=J - which is just the simplest theory, that Ned was telling the truth mostly, that he broke his vow to Cat and slept with some fisherman's daughter.

B+A=J - Brandon, Ned's older and bolder brother, slept with Ashara at the Tourny at Harrenhal, and is the Stark brother that Barristan thought dishonored Ashara.

I think I have seen a few incest theories, but those are so ridiculous that they are really not worth mentioning.

[Mladen]

Third, to run down some of the more talked about Jon's parentage theories:

R+L=J - they ran away together, Song of Ice and Fire is fulfilled in Jon

R+L=J - R kidnapped L either because he is the crown prince and can get away with it, or because he saw L as Ice to his Fire

N+A=J - which is why Ashara Dayne killed herself, because the father of her child killed her brother

N+W=J - which is just the simplest theory, that Ned was telling the truth mostly, that he broke his vow to Cat and slept with some fisherman's daughter.

B+A=J - Brandon, Ned's older and bolder brother, slept with Ashara at the Tourny at Harrenhal, and is the Stark brother that Barristan thought dishonored Ashara.

All of these are plausible except the bolded. Brandon died long before Jon was conceived. I have little doubts that Ashara slept with Brandon, but that child wasn't Jon, that is for sure.

[The Santa of House Claus]

All of these are plausible except the bolded. Brandon died long before Jon was conceived. I have little doubts that Ashara slept with Brandon, but that child wasn't Jon, that is for sure.

Agreed, but it is a theory that is out there. Personally, I do believe in R+L=J, I am just not sold on the idea that they ran off together because I am not sold on Rheagar being Westeros' Prince Charming, given that really all we know of him comes from memories of people that liked him. They would naturally remember him in a much more noble light.

Of course, I would also laugh hysterically if, in WOW, we find out that Jon is really just Ned's bastards, totally crushing all these theories. Also if the books opening sentence is "And Jon Snow died, never knowing his true parentage. The mystery will die with him."

[Mladen]

Agreed, but it is a theory that is out there. Personally, I do believe in R+L=J, I am just not sold on the idea that they ran off together because I am not sold on Rheagar being Westeros' Prince Charming, given that really all we know of him comes from memories of people that liked him. They would naturally remember him in a much more noble light.

Theory or not, it is false due to contriving facts. As for Rhaegar being Prince Charming, look it the other way around. Look it from Lyanna perspective.

[The Santa of House Claus]

Theory or not, it is false due to contriving facts. As for Rhaegar being Prince Charming, look it the other way around. Look it from Lyanna perspective.

Lyanna was not wild about marrying Robert because of his sleeping around, but as far as I know, she did not have an opinion of Rhaegar that is recorded anyway. She could have loved him like Cersie did, or though he was an arrogant, self important prick (i.e. Lilly Potter's early opinion of James Potter)

[Mladen]

Lyanna was not wild about marrying Robert because of his sleeping around, but as far as I know, she did not have an opinion of Rhaegar that is recorded anyway. She could have loved him like Cersie did, or though he was an arrogant, self important prick (i.e. Lilly Potter's early opinion of James Potter)

Or she could have thought of him as the way out from the role that is expected from her. Think more of Eowyn/Aragorn dynamics... Paralleling Eowyn, I think Lyanna saw Rhaegar first as Aragorn, and later as Faramir.

[Lord Flashheart]

I actually created this theory after watching episode one of GOT. Psh you had to read to figure this out? Catch up.

[The Kinkslayer]

SPOILER ALERT

SERIOUS SPOILER BELOW

DON'T CLICK THE SPOILER BUTTON

Jon Snow is not related to Ramsey Snow

[Orson Iceheart]

<sighs> For the record, it is not only possible, but it is what happened. I was not on the forums prior to coming up with my theory; as such, I never saw any of the R+L-J threads. Naturally, I started reading other messages AFTER I made my first post, and that particular thread was the third one I read, making me feel foolish.

As for the "respectful" comment, I made that because, while I have never posted or read these forums before today, I have seen far too many instances in other online forums of people making what they believe to be original observations, only to be subjected to heaps of insulting and demeaning abuse, rather than simply pointing out existing information on the theories in question. (Thank you to those who did provide the links while keeping it civil.)

And as for the point about "If it were true, we should have found out about it by now", I have to point out that of all the people who were at the Tower of Joy that day, only two adults left alive. Now, there is only one person who knows the truth, and he's not talking to anyone.