Robb's Will- Does it matter?

[ToTheWolves]

Question say if the will surfaces and becomes known knowledge to the north or even westeros(don't ask how) that Robb legitimized him making him jon stark while jon is "dead" ...meanwhile in Jon's coma or somewhere else it also becomes known that he is the son of rhaegar and lyanna but say if they never married, making Jon still a bastard... Does the will still count in that equation? Or is jon just a fancy bastard? Lol

[Bael's Bastard]

And the Lords in the North will never support a bastard with Ned's Trueborn sons known to be alive

But none of the bannermen knew Rickon and Bran were alive...There isn't any Lord that would support Jon with Rickon and Bran known to be alive..Because that's the only motive for Robb to legitimize him Rickon and Bran beying supposebly dead

You are just making assumptions. It remains to be seen how the northern lords would act if Robb's will survives and is made public. I am not sure Jon would accept being king of the north or lord of Winterfell But the will almost certainly legitimizes and makes Jon Robb's chosen heir. The rest is much more speculative.

[LordQorgyle]

You are making stuff up. Sansa was known to be alive, and yet he made Jon his heir over Ned and Cat's second eldest child. If the will exists, it puts Jon ahead of his half-siblings (really cousins).

The will was only made because Sansa was married with a Lannister, and the others were probably dead.So probably that will isn't valable...And i repeat a boy comes always before a girl Bran and Rickon come always before Sansa

[FireAndBlood.]

If Stannis would not have imposed him those conditions about to burn down the weirwood, I think he could have accepted Winterfell

We suppose that he is not Eddard's son but we do suppose that he is Rhaegar's son, so based in this theory he has Stark blood to reclaim Winterfell and The North as his "mother" was Lyanna Stark

He might have accepted then (and I believe if he had he would have felt hella guilty and changed his mind), but I don't think he would accept it now. To me, the whole point of him rejecting Winterfell was him coming to terms with the fact that it's just not his to take, and he has since pushed the point that it belongs to Sansa (since Bran and Rickon are "dead"). And if he ended up Lord of Winterfell if he's released from his vows somehow and she (or any other Stark child) turned up pushing their rightful claim to Winterfell, I don't see how he would ever view turning them away, regardless of the status of his legitimisation, as anything close to honourable.

EDIT: And you're right, as Lyanna's son he has Stark blood in him. But as Lyanna's son, he comes last after all of Ned's children.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

The will was only made because Sansa was married with a Lannister, and the others were probably dead.So probably that will isn't valable...And i repeat a boy comes always before a girl Bran and Rickon come always before Sansa

Unless Jon says no to the Will, every Stark Bannerman that still supports the Starks would call him their Liege Lord.

Robb made him his Heir and legitimized him as a True born son of Ned Stark. It does not matter if Bran or Rickon are not dead.

[Bael's Bastard]

The will was only made because Sansa was married with a Lannister, and the others were probably dead.So probably that will isn't valable...And i repeat a boy comes always before a girl Bran and Rickon come always before Sansa

You argued a legitimized bastard would come after Ned and Cat's children. Robb explicitly argued to make Jon his heir over their second eldest child after Robb. Sansa shows your assertion is baseless. He may have done it believing Bran and Rickon to be dead, and because Sansa was marrying a Lannister, but he demonstrated that a legitimized bastard could be made his heir over his legitimate, living siblings. Whether Jon or lords will accept it is speculation. But it wasn't done with a clause of unless Bran and Rickon are alive.

[UnmaskedLurker]

If Robb's will did not matter, then I doubt GRRM would have bothered putting it in the book. Bran is not coming back from that tree, I don't think. While Jon might prefer for Rickon to rule rather than himself, Davos might not be comes back with Rickon before the will is revealed. It certainly seems possible that Jon will become KitN under the Will and later, when he finds out that Rickon is alive, agree to become his regent in favor of Rickon. But we don't know for sure how GRRM will take the story in this regard--I don't think he has given us enough clues. What does seem apparent is that the will must be used for some purpose or it was pointless to add it to the story in the first place. That would be a fairly annoying red herring if it is not important on some level.

[sj4iy]

The will was only made because Sansa was married with a Lannister, and the others were probably dead.So probably that will isn't valable...And i repeat a boy comes always before a girl Bran and Rickon come always before Sansa

The will is valuable in that it legitimizes Jon as a Stark and a trueborn son of Ned Stark. That's really where the value is contained, whether or not Jon would ever press his claim for Winterfell (which we know he wouldn't if he found out his brothers were alive). By proclaiming Jon as his heir, he has given Jon the tools to rally the North behind him in whatever conquest he chooses. THAT'S the value of that will. Jon would never take Winterfell from any of his siblings if they pressed their claim, but Rickon is not old enough to do anything for Winterfell, Arya was never going to be a Lady and certainly won't be now, Bran is now a tree and will not return and Sansa will probably marry and stake a claim somewhere else. Jon could be a regent in Rickon's stead. But Jon is the one the most pressing need of the North's support, since he is trying to fight the real enemy. If the will has any importance in the story, then that's how Jon would use it.

[LordQorgyle]

Unless Jon says no to the Will, every Stark Bannerman that still supports the Starks would call him their Liege Lord.

Robb made him his Heir and legitimized him as a True born son of Ned Stark. It does not matter if Bran or Rickon are not dead.

Who said that?For the Lords it certainly matter, for you maybe not but that is crucial factor, what you don't understand is that the only motive that the will was made was that Robb real heir's were dead now Rickon is coming back that changes everything...For you if the Westerling girl was pregnant with Robb's child Jon come first too? That doesn't make any sense

[UnmaskedLurker]

The will is valuable in that it legitimizes Jon as a Stark and a trueborn son of Ned Stark. That's really where the value is contained, whether or not Jon would ever press his claim for Winterfell (which we know he wouldn't if he found out his brothers were alive). By proclaiming Jon as an heir, whatever his rank among his siblings, he has given Jon the tools to rally the North behind him in whatever conquest he chooses. THAT'S the value of that will.

Yes, that is the point I was trying to make, but I think you are making it clearer. Rickon may not even be around when the will is revealed and Bran almost certainly will be in that tree. So the will gives Jon the ability to rally the North--exactly. The will has to be important because GRRM introduced it--and this analysis is the best explanation for how it will be important. Whether Jon eventually gives up his claim to the North to Rickon (which I suspect he will do) is almost irrelevant.

[Alex21]

He might have accepted then (and I believe if he had he would have felt hella guilty and changed his mind), but I don't think he would accept it now. To me, the whole point of him rejecting Winterfell was him coming to terms with the fact that it's just not his to take, and he has since pushed the point that it belongs to Sansa (since Bran and Rickon are "dead"). And if he ended up Lord of Winterfell if he's released from his vows somehow and she (or any other Stark child) turned up pushing their rightful claim to Winterfell, I don't see how he would ever view turning them away, regardless of the status of his legitimisation, as anything close to honourable.

EDIT: And you're right, as Lyanna's son he has Stark blood in him. But as Lyanna's son, he comes last after all of Ned's children.

Me neither, but I do see him ruling or carrying the titles until Bran and Rickon grow up and then give the crown to one of them. Or at least be their regent.

Exactly, and all of them are believed dead, and he was (or at least we believe that) legitimized by Robb.

[UnmaskedLurker]

Who said that?For the Lords it certainly matter, for you maybe not but that is crucial factor, what you don't understand is that the only motive that the will was made was that Robb real heir's were dead now Rickon is coming back that changes everything...For you if the Westerling girl was pregnant with Robb's child Jon come first too? That doesn't make any sense

I think it would become a question that some kind of great council would have to decide among the conflicting claims, given the "mistake of fact" that Robb was under when making the will. Certainly if Robb knew that Bran and Rickon were alive and Jayne were pregnant, he theoretically still could have named Jon his heir and it probably would be honored, but not necessarily.

But that is likely to be irrelevant for how the story unfolds. Bran and Rickon are likely to be nowhere to be found when the will is unveiled. As sj4iy pointed out, it will be used to give Jon the leadership of the North and rally the people to do what needs to be done (put down the Freys and Boltons; fight against the Others; whatever). Whether Jon gives up his claim when Rickon returns is sort of a side point. I suspect Jon would abdicate in favor of Rickon, but perhaps agree to stay as regent. Who knows? These issues are side issues and not critical to determining the in-story importance of the will.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Who said that?For the Lords it certainly matter, for you maybe not but that is crucial factor, what you don't understand is that the only motive that the will was made was that Robb real heir's were dead now Rickon is coming back that changes everything...For you if the Westerling girl was pregnant with Robb's child Jon come first too? That doesn't make any sense

He named Jon his Heir, what about that doesn't make sense?

According to Robb's Will, Jon is now Jon Stark true born son of Ned Stark and heir to the Crown of Winter, King in the North and Lord of Winterfell.

Everything else is ifs ands or buts. It doesn't matter.

I don't think it means anything thought because I don't see Jon taking it. BUT if he were to claim Robb's will. He would be the King in the North and could rally the North.

[LordQorgyle]

Only if Rickon and Bran were

He named Jon his Heir, what about that doesn't make sense?

According to Robb's Will, Jon is now Jon Stark true born son of Ned Stark and heir to the Crown of Winter, King in the North and Lord of Winterfell.

Everything else is ifs ands or buts. It doesn't matter.

I don't think it means anything thought because I don't see Jon taking it. BUT if he were to claim Robb's will. He would be the King in the North and could rally the North.

Only if Rickon, Bran or ,Jeine's son weren´t there.If the 2 Stark boys were there or Jeyne had a son of Robb, that was in the North the Lords will always chose the direct descendence its obvious

[Minstral]

Question say if the will surfaces and becomes known knowledge to the north or even westeros(don't ask how) that Robb legitimized him making him jon stark while jon is "dead" ...meanwhile in Jon's coma or somewhere else it also becomes known that he is the son of rhaegar and lyanna but say if they never married, making Jon still a bastard... Does the will still count in that equation? Or is jon just a fancy bastard? Lol

Didn't Robb send a copy to oldtown for whatever reason?

[Amber W]

I think the will definitely matters. The Northern lords seem to be acting upon it already; I think they are 'supporting' Stannis until he recaptures Winterfell, only to make Jon their new King as soon as the North is rid of Boltons.

To Jon, Rob offering him Winterfell would be very different from Stannis proposing the same, as he would feel Stannis was offering something that wasn't his to give. He always dreamt of inheriting Winterfell, not stealing it away from his siblings; if Robb named Jon his heir and a legitimate son of Ned Stark, that gives him precedent over all the other Stark children, regardless of the fact that they were not really dead at the time the will was made. Furthermore, by the time the will turns up the Night's Watch might no longer exist, or the Others might have become such a threat that accepting the title and becoming a rallying point for the North and possibly Riverlands would be the only ethical thing to do.

Basically, when Stannis offered Jon the thing he always wanted, the 'how' and 'when' weren't right, so Jon refused. If Robb offers the same and Jon learns of it after his vows have ceased to matter, everything will fit, and he would feel like he could accept it.

[LordQorgyle]

The Riverlands will never support Jon even the Blackfish said it

[chrisdaw]

They will, like yielding RR it will be Edmure's decision in the end.

[Amber W]

Only if Rickon and Bran were

Only if Rickon, Bran or ,Jeine's son weren´t there.If the 2 Stark boys were there or Jeyne had a son of Robb, that was in the North the Lords will always chose the direct descendence its obvious

I don't think it would be up to the Northern lords though, seeing as there is a will. If Robb hadn't written a will or nobody would know about it, the Northern Lords would be obliged to root out Bran or Rickon, or Sansa if they didn't know either of them was still alive, and any of them would take precedent over Jon. But there was a will, and it named Jon as heir - the fact that Robb didn't know about Bran and Rickon doesn't matter.

Many Northern lords might think it would be fairer for Rickon or Sansa to inherit the title, seeing as Robb didn't have all the facts, but their opinions don't matter - even if they could be 100% sure Robb would have preferred Bran or Rickon over Jon, they would still be obliged to act on what Robb put down.

[Alex21]

We have to think how Robb could have written the Will, in some point he could have written some like:

I Robb of the House Stark, King in The North, and Lord of Winterfell, legitimate Jon Snow, my father's natural son and my brother as Jon Stark and I name him as my Heir if I do not have any son... or all the rest of my heirs die.

what do you think?