Colonel Green Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Yeah, I assumed he was either Ormund's uncle or great-uncle (I don't believe Otto's age is given, but he must have been sixtyish by 129). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Ormund was Otto's nephew, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Ah, cool, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 That works pretty well. Could be that Otto's older brother had daughters before he finally fathered his son, Ormund. Or the fact that Otto already has a bunch of grown-up grandchildren - and three great-grandchildren - is due to the fact that both his daughter Alicent and Aegon and Helaena married rather early. By the way, Ran: Have you caught that discrepancy in the ages of Rhaenyra's children between TRP and TPatQ. Apparently Jace can't be 15 in 129 at the beginning of the Dance when he truly is born in the year TRP states. I'm not sure who has brought that up - it wasn't me ;-). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Tze brought it up I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Well, that wouldn't surprise me. The thing could then be corrected either in a republication of TPatQ, TRP, or, especially, in 'Fire and Blood'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 If Mhysaria was extracted out of Lys before Daemon showed his colours, where was she extracted to? Daemon was expressly ordered to send Mhysaria "away" and return to his wife. Sailing to Essos for war rather than fucking sheep at Runestone was literally contrary to his express orders, but making himself useful in a war against acknowledged foreign enemy was excusable. Leaving the Lady of Runestone at her seat rather than hauling her to war camps was also reasonable. But Mhysaria? Whether he returned her to Westeros or carried her to his camp in Runestone, he was in flagrant violation of his orders. So screwed either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good King Daemon Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 If Mhysaria was extracted out of Lys before Daemon showed his colours, where was she extracted to? Daemon was expressly ordered to send Mhysaria "away" and return to his wife. Sailing to Essos for war rather than fucking sheep at Runestone was literally contrary to his express orders, but making himself useful in a war against acknowledged foreign enemy was excusable. Leaving the Lady of Runestone at her seat rather than hauling her to war camps was also reasonable. But Mhysaria? Whether he returned her to Westeros or carried her to his camp in Runestone, he was in flagrant violation of his orders. So screwed either way. I doubt a lyseni whore was ever presented at court or anything. It mightn't have been hard for daemon to hide her away in the city. Also he mightn't have brought her back for several years so Viserys might have just forgotten about her and even if he did remember he was always forgiving his brother for his previous transgressions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 . Also he mightn't have brought her back for several years so Viserys might have just forgotten about her and even if he did remember he was always forgiving his brother for his previous transgressions. He had to bring her out of Lys in a few months, before he showed his colours. He had to bring her somewhere, or sacrifice her as a hostage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Jaak, I guess Mysaria could take care of herself. With her child by Daemon dead, there is a good chance that they were not exactly best buddies when he began his campaign against the Three Daughters, so it would even be possible that she actively helped war against him. We have no inclination how influential she was in Lys, after all. In the end, they could have reconciled later on, perhaps only when Laena and he made their tour through the Free Cities. It seems as if they did not have a relationship afterwards (Daemon was with Laena, Rhaenyra, and then Nettles), but were still fond of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Let me preface by saying I loved the story, and GRRM's writing, but perhaps its my own personal bias about wanting a quiet, peaceful life in the country had I been around then, but the more I read about them, the more I'm with Lady Olenna, (though I believe she was the one dumped), and that you would have had to chase me down with a crazy net before I'd marry into that family. :ph34r: I did love Mushroom however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor227 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 There are other such poor islands. Bear Isle, Iron Islands, Greenstone, Tarth, Dragonstone, Three Sisters and Skagos are all poor, and all governed by Iron Throne, directly or through Lords Paramount. Iron Islands and Three Sisters are also known for blatant piracy.Agreed. That´s what he was doing till 109.But he took the crown in the first place.It was unprecedented. No Andal had taken a crown since Aegon the Conqueror declared there would be only one king, and crushed all others.When Balon of Iron Islands took crown, everyone agreed it was a rebellion, each time. Ok, how about this then. It's mentioned in the text that Viserys was offering financial support and assistance to Daemon when he was fighting to conquer the Stepstones! He even has a line about letting him play at war, as it keeps him out of trouble. The Iron Throne was actively supporting and condoning Daemon's initiative. If the Stepstones were considered subjects of the Iron Throne, it would have been an act of war to invade them. As Daemon's campaign was an independent joint venture with Driftmark to end the Three Sisters' tyrannical rule over the shipping lanes, I would submit that the Stepstones were not territory of the Iron Throne. And besides, he does not present himself to his brother when he comes home as the King of the Narrow Sea. In an act of filial fealty he immediately surrenders the crown that was forged for him as a gift. He's not asked to do so. He comes home, and he sets aside the foreign crown he created and won. It doesn't get less rebellious than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 Jaak, I guess Mysaria could take care of herself. With her child by Daemon dead, there is a good chance that they were not exactly best buddies when he began his campaign against the Three Daughters, so it would even be possible that she actively helped war against him. Good chance. But a lot of it would have been between the two, and the rest in his heart, neither of which the Lyseni had access to. There might be a possibility that he does not care, there might be a possibility that he did. The Lyseni had little to lose by abusing a whore he did not care about, and a lot to gain by holding a hostage in case he did care. And yes, there was the possibility that she would actively help, by squealing everything she could against Daemon. What she knew might be little use in war, or the Lyseni might distrust what she had to say in case she was still loyal to him and lying in his interest, but if she was a heartlessly deserted hostage then eager cooperation to save her own skin and get back at Daemon for abandonment was a plausible move. So one OBVIOUS reason to try and save her if he could have done so easily. Another is the morale of his soldiers. If Daemon had a reputation for abandoning a woman hostage he could easily have saved, every man facing an enemy and a possibility of capture would be hesitant about the prospect of Daemon coming to save him, and would consider fleeing or yielding before he angers the enemy. Oh and then there is whatever conscience Daemon may have had, and any affection for Mhysaria he may still have had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 So question if anyone can answer. How long were the Targaryens officially kings of Westeros? What year did their dragons die? And why did it say in AGOT that the dragons had been dead 300yrs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 AGoT doesn't say they died 300 years ago. The TV show said it, but the TV show is occasionally extremely ignorant about the setting. For the rest, see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 AGoT doesn't say they died 300 years ago. The TV show said it, but the TV show is occasionally extremely ignorant about the setting.For the rest, see here.Okay thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabellaVidal Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Let me preface by saying I loved the story, and GRRM's writing, but perhaps its my own personal bias about wanting a quiet, peaceful life in the country had I been around then, but the more I read about them, the more I'm with Lady Olenna, (though I believe she was the one dumped), and that you would have had to chase me down with a crazy net before I'd marry into that family. :ph34r: Not even if it was for the greater good?Sounds of chanting, "The Greater Good! The Greater Good!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 So question if anyone can answer.How long were the Targaryens officially kings of Westeros?What year did their dragons die?And why did it say in AGOT that the dragons had been dead 300yrs? They were kings of Westeros for three hundred years, and I think the dragons died off gradually with Rhaenyras son poisoning the lot of them due to being so traumatized by her death I believe. I think also that Daemon letting Nettles escape was also partly a nod to Mysaria as much as genuine love for her. Not even if it was for the greater good?Sounds of chanting, "The Greater Good! The Greater Good!" :laugh: I don't think me marrying one of them would end up for the greatear good, lol, as I would eventually check out of " Hotel Death" under the cover of night, (much like Lysa did, though I DON'T want to compare myself to her :wacko: ). The Red Keep- you check in, but you don't check out. I'm reminded of a historical parallel about a European Princess that Henry VIII was eyeing up for another wife, and she basically said no thanks, that she liked her head just the way it was. In all seriousness though, I suppose I was never one to seek that kind of ambition. Even at work, I don't try to get in good with the corporate bosses because while I want to be known for my hard work and competency, the problem with getting in with those at the top is that while you get close to them, they get close to you as well, and all your vulnerabilities. I've seen "schmoozers" go down very quickly like that. Best to keep a safe and admirable distance. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 Ok, how about this then. It's mentioned in the text that Viserys was offering financial support and assistance to Daemon when he was fighting to conquer the Stepstones! He even has a line about letting him play at war, as it keeps him out of trouble. The Iron Throne was actively supporting and condoning Daemon's initiative. Yes - (mentioned) before Daemon assumed the crown. Which makes Daemon´s assumption of the crown even more ungrateful and treacherous. He was embezzling a kingdom he had conquered for the money the King had entrusted to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I have an honest question regarding Cole.I get that he was initially, seemingly outraged that Raenerya challenged his vows and that he is supposedly honorable.But on the second go round she finally gets the message and apparently moves on.What is his outrage now that he goes to the other side?That she takes a lover?It's not like she would be the first Targ. to take a paramour. Aegons 2nd wife, Rhaenys did.Are we sure he didn't enjoy her chasing after him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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