Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Thanks. Only the sale of Rhaella's crown is mentioned in the books Then perhaps they used her crown for Viserys? With the promise of getting him his own crown when they returned to KL (which they never did)? I can't imagine that there would be a spare crown at Dragonstone.. from The Princess and the Queen I got the idea that the crowns were all kept in a vault at the Red Keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Yeah that makes sense. Or maybe they just declared him king and didn't bother with a coronation ceremony and crown? Edit: I love that so far this entire thread is off topic, talking mostly about the last story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The App confirms that Viserys III was crowned on Dragonstone. But then, Viserys is still called 'Prince' occasionally, but it makes sense that Rhaella would do that - and they could indeed have used her crown for the whole thing. Talking about crowns: By the time of Aerys II the Targaryens should have lost the Conqueror's crown (with Daeron I in Dorne), the Conciliator's crown (sold by Rhaenyra to get a passage back to Dragonstone), and the Dragonbane's crown (the simply golden band, reused by Egg - should have been ruined/melted down at Summerhall). They should still have: - Aenys' elaborate golden crown - the Unworthy's crown (Daeron II, Aerys I, and Aerys II wore it) - Maekar's crown (Maekar and Jaehaerys II wore it - the latter most likely because his Egg's crown was lost) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Re: LordVarys' question of why Daemon would even need to kill Vhagar if Aemond was already sitting there dead? I think he may have had a logistical problem otherwise. He'd have two dragons on hand, and he can't just "upgrade" to riding Vhagar from then on, so he'd have to kill the enemy dragon because it'd be a liability otherwise. The Greens could recover the dragon and re-ride it into the war again. Can't allow that to happen because it'd undo all the progress he just made. Also, by killing both dragon assets, that removes the main motive anyone would have to launch a big manhunt to find him. It allows him to just fade away unsought by history. If he'd ridden off on an official Targ dragon there'd be an ongoing issue with the crown. His wife turned against him, so he turned away in turn, surrendering his company vehicle but only after making sure to do his part for queen and country in the war effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The App confirms that Viserys III was crowned on Dragonstone. But then, Viserys is still called 'Prince' occasionally, but it makes sense that Rhaella would do that - and they could indeed have used her crown for the whole thing. Talking about crowns: By the time of Aerys II the Targaryens should have lost the Conqueror's crown (with Daeron I in Dorne), the Conciliator's crown (sold by Rhaenyra to get a passage back to Dragonstone), and the Dragonbane's crown (the simply golden band, reused by Egg - should have been ruined/melted down at Summerhall). They should still have: - Aenys' elaborate golden crown - the Unworthy's crown (Daeron II, Aerys I, and Aerys II wore it) - Maekar's crown (Maekar and Jaehaerys II wore it - the latter most likely because his Egg's crown was lost) I guess that Aerys' crown (and thus also the crown of Daeron II, Aerys I and Aegon IV) came into Robert's possession after the Sack. Pretty good chance that it was destroyed then. Possibly that's the fate that the other crowns, if they were indeed kept in the vault in the Red Keep, met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 TMoTO, come on, who in the world would try to claim Vhagar?! No one in his right mind, especially no Green, since they were all more or less dead by this point, or had already dragons of their own. More importantly, Daemon's own dragonless children (Aegon the Younger or Rhaena of Pentos) could claim Vhagar for the Black side. That would have made a huge difference. The chances that the Greens should find a successful dragonseed are very bad - there are not exactly many people in the Riverlands, I guess, who may believe they have dragonblood. When Jace went looking for 'dragonseeds', they were on Dragonstone - the very place the Targaryens had lived and ruled for nearly 250 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Re: LordVarys' question of why Daemon would even need to kill Vhagar if Aemond was already sitting there dead? I think he may have had a logistical problem otherwise. He'd have two dragons on hand, and he can't just "upgrade" to riding Vhagar from then on, so he'd have to kill the enemy dragon because it'd be a liability otherwise. The Greens could recover the dragon and re-ride it into the war again. Can't allow that to happen because it'd undo all the progress he just made. Also, by killing both dragon assets, that removes the main motive anyone would have to launch a big manhunt to find him. It allows him to just fade away unsought by history. If he'd ridden off on an official Targ dragon there'd be an ongoing issue with the crown. His wife turned against him, so he turned away in turn, surrendering his company vehicle but only after making sure to do his part for queen and country in the war effort. This line of tpatq comes to mind: "Kill the rider and the dragon will depart" Without a rider, Vhagar would have been a lot less dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 This line of tpatq comes to mind: Without a rider, Vhagar would have been a lot less dangerous.Daemon is also able to get Vhagar to fly with him when Laena returns to Driftmark by sea rather than Dragonback. Obviously the situations are ever somewhat different but, you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 For all those interested, who haven't seen it yet, I've made a thread to take a closer look at the deaths of Harwin and Lyonel Strong, and Laenor Velaryon. Though Gyldayn lists a few suspects as culprits for the deaths, I felt like he might have left out a rather important group. Daemon is also able to get Vhagar to fly with him when Laena returns to Driftmark by sea rather than Dragonback. Obviously the situations are ever somewhat different but, you know...True, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 TMoTO, come on, who in the world would try to claim Vhagar?! No one in his right mind, especially no Green, since they were all more or less dead by this point, or had already dragons of their own. More importantly, Daemon's own dragonless children (Aegon the Younger or Rhaena of Pentos) could claim Vhagar for the Black side. That would have made a huge difference. The chances that the Greens should find a successful dragonseed are very bad - there are not exactly many people in the Riverlands, I guess, who may believe they have dragonblood. When Jace went looking for 'dragonseeds', they were on Dragonstone - the very place the Targaryens had lived and ruled for nearly 250 years... Didn't Aegon the Elder have bastard sons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Yap. I was going to mention that, but forgot it. Considering Aegon II's age, they would have to be small children during the Dance, though. 'King Trystane' could be a possible dragonrider, though. But then, does anyone actually believe that he was Viserys' bastard? I don't think so - he is about 15 in 130 AC, right? That would mean Viserys would have fathered him around the same time as Daeron the Daring - I don't think he entertained any lovers at this time. He seems to be - more or less - a faithful guy, not counting the rumor that he had already an affair with Alicent while Aemma was still alive. But the latter could be 'true love' on his part - Aemma was an arranged match (he seemed to like her and all, but this was most likely not 'true love'), and thus a notable exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 Talking about crowns: By the time of Aerys II the Targaryens should have lost the Conqueror's crown (with Daeron I in Dorne), the Conciliator's crown (sold by Rhaenyra to get a passage back to Dragonstone), and the Dragonbane's crown (the simply golden band, reused by Egg - should have been ruined/melted down at Summerhall). When Rhaenyra set sail for Dragonstone, she was bankrupt, but the Greens were not - they held the quarters of money sent to Storm´s End and to Casterly Rock. And after the war, Aegon III ruled. Did the buyers of Rhaenyra´s crown melt it down, or hold it and offer to sell it back to Aegon III after the war? Simply saying it held some curio/historic value... were there any rich buyers in Essos who´d have liked to show a genuine Crown of Westeros in their possession (even if they did not wear it) and buy it for price above that of gold and gems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 When Rhaenyra set sail for Dragonstone, she was bankrupt, but the Greens were not - they held the quarters of money sent to Storm´s End and to Casterly Rock. And after the war, Aegon III ruled. Did the buyers of Rhaenyra´s crown melt it down, or hold it and offer to sell it back to Aegon III after the war? Simply saying it held some curio/historic value... were there any rich buyers in Essos who´d have liked to show a genuine Crown of Westeros in their possession (even if they did not wear it) and buy it for price above that of gold and gems? Well, there were Essosi willing to buy Rhaella's crown from Viserys :) However, I think its not necessarily the fact that its a Targaryen crown as the precious metals and gems which are surely worth a lot. Depends on who bought the crown from Rhaenyra imo, as to whether it wpuld be sold back. If it was a Westerosi, whether noble or merchant, they are more likely to save the crown and offer it back to the Greens (or Aegon III) in.order to.ingratiate themselves with them. Whereas an Essosi is more likely to just have it melted down for the valuables. Just my.opinion anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 What is the distance between King´s Landing and Dragonstone, again? Who normally won the races - Syrax and Rhaenyra (then 14, a rider since she was 7, on her own named dragon), or Caraxes and Daemon (then 30)? And what was the winning time - one way, and there and back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 What is the distance between King´s Landing and Dragonstone, again? The distance should be 450 miles, as the raven flies, between KL and Dragonstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 The distance should be 450 miles, as the raven flies, between KL and Dragonstone.At average speeds of a homing pigeon, around 50 miles per hour, sounds like 9 hours one way. "Daily" would mean one day there, the other day back, or something? Racing there and back would be 18 hours, some of them at nigt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 At average speeds of a homing pigeon, around 50 miles per hour, sounds like 9 hours one way."Daily" would mean one day there, the other day back, or something? Racing there and back would be 18 hours, some of them at nigt.Wouldn't dragons be able to fly faster than pigeons? In that case perhaps they might fly there and get back in one day. Otherwise, they might indeed just stay in the castle overnight and race back the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 How did King Daemon I go about "abandoning" his Kingdom of Narrow Seas? He had been away from his Kingdom before - he showed up, with his crown, at King´s Landing in 111 AC and stayed for half a year, sitting in the Small Council. How did he arrange for the rule of the Kingdom of Narrow Seas in his absence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 The 14 year old Princess used to race with King of Narrow Seas to Dragonstone and back. Dragonstone to Bloodstone is slightly longer... couple of days. But still...How would Alicent and Lord Lyonel Strong have reacted if Rhaenyra had paid a visit to Kingdom of Narrow Seas without asking Viserys in advance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 As for dragon carrying capacity: it is now not just Vhagar (over 50) who is confirmed to have carried passengers. For Caraxes bore Daemon, then 25, with Mysaria to Dragonstone. It was at that time that Viserys threatened Daemon with being attainted as a traitor. How? Three grown dragons were in Dragonstone archipelago - Laena on Vhagar, Rhaenys on Meleys, Daemon on Caraxes. The royal dragons... King was dragonless, Rhaenyra was a rider but she was 8 and Syrax her own named hatchling. And Driftmark had Laenor on Seasmoke, too. Well, Helaena was yet unbegotten - did Dreamfyre have a rider? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.