Tyrion's relationships with the the remaining Targaryens

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

I have been listening to the Audio books lately (first time listening to them, pretty good) and the relationships that Tyrion has with all of the Targaryens that he meets through out his Journeys amazed me (this assumes the R+L=J).

And to my knowledge Tyrion is the only one who has met, conversed with and befriended all (most) of the Targaryens that are currently in ASoIaF.

Jon:

Meets Jon at Winterfell when the King went to ask Ned to be Hand. At first Jon was very unsure about the Imp but later realized that Tyrion was the only person who told him the truth about the Night's Watch.

The night before Tyrion left the Wall, he took one last look atop the Wall and ran into Jon and Ghost, after a touching conversation where Jon asked Tyrion to help Bran, shook hands and called each other friends.

Aemon:

Meets Aemon while at the Wall and while they don't share a lot of time together it is interesting what Aemon says about Tyrion from listening to his conversations while at dinner with Lord Commander Mormont:

"Oh, I think that Lord Tyrion is quite a large man," Master Aemon said from the far end of the table. He spoke softly, yet the high officers of the Night's Watch all fell quiet, the better to hear what the ancient had to say. "I think he is a giant come among us, here at the end of the world."

This actually touched Tyrion and he was at a loss for words.

Aegon (fAegon):

Meets (f)Aegon while he is still posing as Young Griff and travels with him a short time by boat on their way to Volantis. Tyrion gives advice to young boy that Aegon actually repeats back when he is changing the plans that had been set up by Illyrio and Jon Connington:

"Why should I go running to my Aunt as if I were a beggar? My claim is better than her own. Let her come to me … in Westeros."

Tyrion and Aegon are not friends, but by actually following his advise Aegon shows that he at least respects Tyrion's intellect and could see value in him as an adviser.

Daenerys:

This will happen most likely in The Winds of Winter (Tyrion is outside of Merreen in proximity of Daenery's forces), so it has not been seen how Tyrion and Daenerys will get along. I would assume it will be tumultuous at first to say the least, especially with him being besides Jorah, but given the way that Tyrion is able to talk his way in and out of trouble and the way he has shown to interact well with the other Targaryens that he has encountered we can at least guess he will be able to win the favors of Daenerys.

Varys (possible Blackfyre/Targaryen):

Also of note is The connection that Varys (a rumored/ theorized Blackfyre/ Targaryen & puppet master of Aegon) and Tyrion share. Varys helped Tyrion defend King's Landing during the Battle of Blackwater Bay and helped Tyrion escape after he was sentenced to die by Tywin.

Varys also thought enough of him to not only send him to Essos to escape but then connected him with Illyrio and Griff (Varys most secret plot).

Even if Varys has no blood connection to the Targaryens, his ties with (f)Aegon could matter in relationship to Tyrion later.

Blood Raven:

The only real Targaryen (bastard) that I can see that Tyrion has not encountered is Blood Raven Brynden Rivers, whether that may or may not happen is anyone's guess, but at this point its my feeling that Brynden is more the Three Eyed Crow and less the Targaryen at this point.

Now I am not sure what this points to but I think that it does highlight some underlying overall big picture in GRRM's story:

Does it strengthen the theory that Tyrion is a secret Targaryen by way of Aerys raping Joanna at some point in King's Landing?

Does it show a way that some sort of alliance could made between Jon, Aegon & Daenerys forces?

Does it point to Tyrion being one of the Three Heads of the Dragon (regardless if he is a Targaryen or not)

I found this aspect of the story fascinating and I just wanted to point out these relationships for further discussion, even if I am not 100% sure what it all means

[Ice Turtle]

I think that it's interesting in relation to two other relationships between Lannister and Targ.

The most important is troubled friendship between Tywin and Aerys. By befriending Jon Tyrion unknowingly follows his father's footsteps. If the outcome will be different is yet to be seen.

There is also Rhaegar and Jaime. Rhaegar is one of very few (probably only two counting Arthur) people Jaime ever really respected and admired and he is still haunted when it comes to failure to protect his children.

I also believe Tyrion he will be key figure in the next Dance of Dragons.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

I think that it's interesting in relation to two other relationships between Lannister and Targ.

The most important is troubled friendship between Tywin and Aerys. By befriending Jon Tyrion unknowingly follows his father's footsteps. If the outcome will be different is yet to be seen.

There is also Rhaegar and Jaime. Rhaegar is one of very few (probably only two counting Arthur) people Jaime ever really respected and admired and he is still haunted when it comes to failure to protect his children.

I also believe Tyrion he will be key figure in the next Dance of Dragons.

Has it ever said how Tywin and Aerys' relationship started?

Was there some sort of friendship before Aerys was King and Tywin Hand? I always assumed that Tywin became Hand because of his Money and influence so Aerys tapped him for the position of Hand to use those attributes to his gain. But I really don't know the story behind that.

[Ice Turtle]

Has it ever said how Tywin and Aerys' relationship started?

Was there some sort of friendship before Aerys was King and Tywin Hand? I always assumed that Tywin became Hand because of his Money and influence so Aerys tapped him for the position of Hand to use those attributes to his gain. But I really don't know the story behind that.

A very anxious king, who did not wholly trust his son, nor his wife, nor his Hand, a friend of his youth who had grown arrogant and overproud. I do believe that you know the rest of this tale, is that not so?

ADwD

[RumHam]

The report on the History of the Westerlands said that Tywin was a cup-bearer for Aegon V. However Ran has said that that report had a few mistakes in it.

[UnmaskedLurker]

Now I am not sure what this points to but I think that it does highlight some underlying overall big picture in GRRM's story:

Does it strengthen the theory that Tyrion is a secret Targaryen by way of Aerys raping Joanna at some point in King's Landing?

Does it show a way that some sort of alliance could made between Jon, Aegon & Daenerys forces?

Does it point to Tyrion being one of the Three Heads of the Dragon (regardless if he is a Targaryen or not)

I found this aspect of the story fascinating and I just wanted to point out these relationships for further discussion, even if I am not 100% sure what it all means

I think you might be able to guess my view on the answers to these questions:

YES

HELL YES

DOUBLE HELL YES

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

The report on the History of the Westerlands said that Tywin was a cup-bearer for Aegon V. However Ran has said that that report had a few mistakes in it.

Interesting.

Thanks!

[HannibalStark]

maybe RLJ is just being assumed true from now on as fact? At this point Jon is much more Stark than Targ (he was raised 100% Stark and still has Stark blood regardless of whether he might be half Targ) I viewed Jon as the only Stark that Tyrion got along with (or really has much contact with for that matter besides Cat, Robb and Bran...plus he manages to turn both Robb and Bran, and even begins to make Cat question why she captured him) Are you saying Jon and Tyrion only get along because he may be a Targ bastard?

I like the idea of Tyrion getting along with Targs....but I am sure there are many more in Westeros with Targ/Valeryian blood...does this mean he only gets along with people because they have Targ blood?

Doesn't he get along with Brown Ben?, who has a drop of Valeryian blood and gets along with Dany's dragons to boot.

IMO I don't think that Targs have anything to do with who Tyrion gets along with. I think Tyrion gets along with most people eventually because he is so god damned clever, even when you don't like him, he is smart enough to play to their strengths/weaknesses until they eventually do like him. Jon and FAegon are perfect examples, not because they are possible Targs, but because they are easy for Tyrion to get into their heads. (but with Jon, he has Ned's voice constantly ringing in his head whether he was his bio father, he was the father that raised him and Ned's influence and him being raised in the North I think would account for what Jon does or who he gets along with much more than his possible half Targ blood ever could. Same with FAegon, he was raised believing he was a Targ, but not as a typical Targ. Maybe there is something to be said for those with Targ blood not being raised as royal Targs though. (Dany also for example never saw KL as her brother did, so maybe she also applies?)

Im not just trying to poo poo on your thread....I think that limiting Tyrion to getting along with Targs, for the sake of them being Targs diminishes what he has been able to do and what he is capable of. Drawing that conclusion would also mean then you would have to assume that any Targ-Lannister alliance Tyrion creates would being inevitably doomed, wouldn't it?

Tyrion is clever and he sees what people want, in general and from him, and he gives it to them. He is skilled at manipulation. Unless you are thinking that Targs are more prone to manipulation

[UnmaskedLurker]

Im not just trying to poo poo on your thread....I think that limiting Tyrion to getting along with Targs, for the sake of them being Targs diminishes what he has been able to do and what he is capable of. Drawing that conclusion would also mean then you would have to assume that any Targ-Lannister alliance Tyrion creates would being inevitably doomed, wouldn't it?

Tyrion is clever and he sees what people want, in general and from him, and he gives it to them. He is skilled at manipulation. Unless you are thinking that Targs are more prone to manipulation

I don't think the point is that Tyrion gets along with Targs because he and they are both Targs per se. I think the point is that GRRM likes to drop clues in the text, and an observant reader (like Amonra) may start to notice that Tyrion has an affinity for people who seem to have Targ ancestry. Gee, is that because Tyrion also has Targ ancestry? Again, not that Tryion only gets along with Targs or that he automatically gets along with them because they are Targs. Rather, it is merely a subtle clue in the text that Tryion is a hidden Targ (maybe).

[the Scorpion Knight]

now that you mention it:

what I find funny the impression tyrion makes on a targ gets worse from targ to targ: from genuine friendship(jon) over respect(aemon),to begrudig respect(aegon)

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

I don't think the point is that Tyrion gets along with Targs because he and they are both Targs per se. I think the point is that GRRM likes to drop clues in the text, and an observant reader (like Amonra) may start to notice that Tyrion has an affinity for people who seem to have Targ ancestry. Gee, is that because Tyrion also has Targ ancestry? Again, not that Tryion only gets along with Targs or that he automatically gets along with them because they are Targs. Rather, it is merely a subtle clue in the text that Tryion is a hidden Targ (maybe).

This.

I am not trying to say that Tyrion is a like a Dragon and you have to be Targaryen to get along with him...lol

Its just really interesting to me that Tyrion has met all/ most of the Targaryens and seemingly gets along with all of them.

With the chance that some or maybe even all these Targaryens could end up at each others throats it seems to me that Tyrion might be the spoke that ties all of them in a wheel.

Obviously that is by GRRM's design, but the question is why. What does that say about Tyrion's future? Does it say anything about his past?

[chrisdaw]

The relationship with Jon will come full circle at the end when KITN Jon will march South to meet the King on the IT Tyrion to make peace and combine against the Others. Jon will essentially need Tyrion to "help" Bran, as it'll all be Bran's plan. Bran will likely also need something specific from Tyrion like a dragon.

"You're asking a lame man to teach a cripple how to dance. However sincere the lesson, the result is likely to be grotesque. Still I know what it is to love a brother, Lord Snow. I will give Bran whatever small help is in my power."

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

The relationship with Jon will come full circle at the end when KITN Jon will march South to meet the King on the IT Tyrion to make peace and combine against the Others. Jon will essentially need Tyrion to "help" Bran, as it'll all be Bran's plan. Bran will likely also need something specific from Tyrion like a dragon.

This is the first time I have seen someone say Tyrion would end up on the Iron Throne.

I admit that I am a Tyrion fan but that is some serious fanning right there. Bravo Sir.

[chrisdaw]

I'm no Tyrion fan, but can only think it a testament to GRRM that he can say Hugor Hill is his favourite character, give him the most content out of any character, conspire to marry him to the younger more beautiful queen and give him the Kingmaker as brother only to have people balk at the notion he'll become king.

[HannibalStark]

I don't think the point is that Tyrion gets along with Targs because he and they are both Targs per se. I think the point is that GRRM likes to drop clues in the text, and an observant reader (like Amonra) may start to notice that Tyrion has an affinity for people who seem to have Targ ancestry. Gee, is that because Tyrion also has Targ ancestry? Again, not that Tryion only gets along with Targs or that he automatically gets along with them because they are Targs. Rather, it is merely a subtle clue in the text that Tryion is a hidden Targ (maybe).

while Tyrion is/was often called Lord Tywin's shame....I don't think this was because he was a Targ Kings bastard...there have been many threads on this. Tywin only keeps Tyrion because he is a Lannister or so he claims...he wouldn't be a Lannister and given the coolness between Tywin and Aerys I'm not so sure he would have kept Tyrion if he COULD have shown he was not really his child.

There are so many gods damned "secret" Targs its literally getting ridiculous. Not counting Tyrion this thread, the OP already assumes way too many IMO, secret Targs. If there were going to be Lannister/Targs, I would think it would be Jaimie and Cersei.....I always thought the irony and the best part of Tyrion is that Tyrion is truly and without a doubt Lord Tywin's TRUE son and heir. Tyrion is very much his fathers son, which makes Tywin's rejection of him so much more effed up.

But seriously...can't we just appreciate Tyrion as a Lannister dwarf rather than another Targ bastard?

[UnmaskedLurker]

You are absolutely correct that no one in-story would ever consider that Tyrion is not the true-born son of Tywin--why would they? So any in-story shame to this point would be about Tyrion's physical characteristics and not any issues of his father's identity. We have some indication that maybe Tywin has some suspicion, but clearly if he has such a suspicion, it is only that--Tywin certainly cannot "prove" that Tyrion is not Tywin's (but he goes to great lengths to keep Tyrion from getting CR). I agree that there have been many discussions of this issue. The best is probably the original (now locked) A+J=T thread (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/75441-a-j-t/). If you want my extended thoughts on why I think it likely you can go to a thread I started (which admittedly did not get much traction) in which I explain why another Targ is necessary and likely Tyrion ().

Basically, if we need to have Targs to have dragon riders, then there needs to be more Targs. More to the point of Tyrion, I believe that the dragon has three heads requires three Targs to be the main heroes of the series. We have Jon and Dany--there must be one more. The only realistic candidate is Tyrion. He is the other main character and the only one that really could be the third head and have Targ blood. I understand your statement about C/J being the secret Targs, but that development does not really do anything for the story. I certainly cannot see Cersei or Jaime being the third head of the dragon. Tryion being a Targ become important if we need Three Heads of the Dragon to be Three Targs. As to irony, I think that the fact that the child most like Tywin is the one that is not even his is quite an irony. Plus the irony of Tyrion killing Jaime's father and Jaime killing Tyrion's father. But I admit that I could be misinterpreting the three heads prophesy.

Just to be clear, I am not suggesting Tyrion as a Targ bastard because I "like the idea" or want to come up with "secret Targs" for the sake of it. I follow the clues where they take me. The story simply demands more Targs and demands a third head of the dragon. If it turns out I am wrong and Tyrion is just a Lannister dwarf then yes, I will just appreciate that he was just a Lannister dwarf. But GRRM is spending a lot of time writing extra books about the Targ dynasty. Isn't that also a clue that there will be more Targs in the story?

[RavenKing23]

Kindling don't have relationships

[shadowofasshai]

Tyrion could be the one who redesigns the dragon harness after a hundred and fifty years, enabling Dany to control Drogon and fly to Westeros with him as a passenger.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Tyrion could be the one who redesigns the dragon harness after a hundred and fifty years, enabling Dany to control Drogon and fly to Westeros with him as a passenger.

I definitely see Tyrion being some sort of use when to riding/ taming the Dragons. Whether its making a saddle or something he learned in one his books.

The combination of his wealth giving him access to many different sources of books and his interest in Dragons could have exposed him to knowledge that not a lot of other people will not have.

When he was in Winterfell he pointed out the Steward in the Library about how some of the books that the Starks had were the best and most complete version of certain books that he had come across.

He obviously has had access to some info that will prove valuable.

[Mladen]

I don't think the point is that Tyrion gets along with Targs because he and they are both Targs per se. I think the point is that GRRM likes to drop clues in the text, and an observant reader (like Amonra) may start to notice that Tyrion has an affinity for people who seem to have Targ ancestry. Gee, is that because Tyrion also has Targ ancestry? Again, not that Tryion only gets along with Targs or that he automatically gets along with them because they are Targs. Rather, it is merely a subtle clue in the text that Tryion is a hidden Targ (maybe).

Because Targs adore each other and have strong family connections? Oh, wait... :)

This simply can't pass as an argument that Tyrion is a Targaryen, not even as subtlest of subtle clues. His interaction with Daenerys won't be automatically nice, nor is he liking her because she is Targaryen, but because she can restore him to the place he wants.

Basically, if we need to have Targs to have dragon riders, then there needs to be more Targs.

Well, GRRM has said in one of SSMs that "third head doesn't have to be Targaryen"