The Jon and Dany are Twins Theory

[Lord Lyman]

What known family members?

It was Rhaegar's children who are related to the Dornish royal family, not Dany and Viserys.

The Martells, They would be considered extended family through marraige.

Also Doran had made a marraige pact to wed Viserys and Arianne and later sent Quentyn after Dany. I do believe he would have taken them in if he knew they on the run in Dorne.

[HexMachina]

One flaw I am surprised hasn't been brought up yet is why Viserys would never mention to Dany that they weren't brother and sister. I'm pretty sure he would remember that his mother didn't give birth to Dany, or that she was never pregnant. And since both of them remember fleeing Braavos...

[sj4iy]

One flaw I am surprised hasn't been brought up yet is why Viserys would never mention to Dany that they weren't brother and sister. I'm pretty sure he would remember that his mother didn't give birth to Dany, or that she was never pregnant. And since both of them remember fleeing Braavos...

Well, I did mentioned that Viserys holds it against Dany that her birth caused his mother's dead...something I don't think he would have done if she were not his real sister.

[jet199]

Well, I did mentioned that Viserys holds it against Dany that her birth caused his mother's dead...something I don't think he would have done if she were not his real sister.

Easy problem to solve. Just add magic.

There was an original Dany but she died so the FM took of her face and stuck it on a substitute child.

[sj4iy]

Easy problem to solve. Just add magic.

There was an original Dany but she died so the FM took of her face and stuck it on a substitute child.

Of course! Why didn't I think of that? XD

[Bael's Bastard]

GRRM has already stated Dany was born eight or nine months after Jon, and the book states she was born nine moons after the flight from KL (which was in the two weeks between the burning death of Chelsted and sack of KL). I think there's no chance they are the same age or have the same parents.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Dany is 99% likely to not be Jon's twin. But, if you want to make this work...

Ashara is known to have had a child, who supposedly died. So no she doesn't have to disappear to hide the fact that she isn't pregnant. However, she could be entrusted to take baby R+L to Dragonstone in secret. Best way to be able to do that? Fake death. If her own child's birth/death was recent she might even be able to act as wetnurse.

Once on Dragonstone, Ashara and Rhaegar's daughter are hidden. There have to be other babies there, so the crying and things are easily explained away. Queen Rhaella of course knows the whole thing. Months later she goes into labor with her own child. The child is born dead. Rhaella didn't die until after her child's birth (that's actually a fact) so she would have had time to tell Willem Darry and whoever else to substitute Rhaegar's child for hers. Of course everyone is sworn to secrecy.

Why doesn't Viserys tell Dany that she's not really his sister? Simple: he doesn't know. For one thing he was eight years old. What eight year old boy knows how babies look at birth or how they develop? For another, he was already showing some signs of Aerys-like tendencies at that point (per the wiki), so his connection to reality may or may not have been the best. Third, as he got older, unelss he had children of his own, and as far as we know he didn't, he would not be likely to pay much attention to such things--he was too wrapped up in survival and in himself, and he probably would have considered that kind of thing the purview of women anyway.

Her looking like Rhaegar while Jon looks like Lyanna is not a problem. Fraternal twins do not have to look alike. There are plenty of daughters who take after their fathers and sons who take after their mothers in the looks department. The age is close enough that as the baby gets older, fewer and fewer people would question it.

What happened to Ashara? Well maybe she went to Asshai to study so that someday she could be of help to TDtwP whether it was Jon or Dany, or someone else. She was in the inner circle at court. Surely she knew about Rhaegar's prophecy fixation.

Even without being Jon's twin, it's possible that Dany spent some time in Dorne at some point. She and Viserys, and Ser Willem had to move around. There is actually a good argument for NOT telling the Martells they were there...the fewer people who know, the fewer who can get in trouble for protecting you, or betray you to your enemies. They had no way of knowing if Doran and company would welcome the siblings of the man who walked out on his sister.

Darkstar can still be "the most dangerous man in Dorne" if they were ever at High Hermitage, or if HE was at the ToJ. It's been suggested that he might have been cousin Arthur's squire.

[Kyoshi]

Dany is 99% likely to not be Jon's twin. But, if you want to make this work...

Ashara is known to have had a child, who supposedly died. So no she doesn't have to disappear to hide the fact that she isn't pregnant. However, she could be entrusted to take baby R+L to Dragonstone in secret. Best way to be able to do that? Fake death. If her own child's birth/death was recent she might even be able to act as wetnurse.

Once on Dragonstone, Ashara and Rhaegar's daughter are hidden. There have to be other babies there, so the crying and things are easily explained away. Queen Rhaella of course knows the whole thing. Months later she goes into labor with her own child. The child is born dead. Rhaella didn't die until after her child's birth (that's actually a fact) so she would have had time to tell Willem Darry and whoever else to substitute Rhaegar's child for hers. Of course everyone is sworn to secrecy.

Why doesn't Viserys tell Dany that she's not really his sister? Simple: he doesn't know. For one thing he was eight years old. What eight year old boy knows how babies look at birth or how they develop? For another, he was already showing some signs of Aerys-like tendencies at that point (per the wiki), so his connection to reality may or may not have been the best. Third, as he got older, unelss he had children of his own, and as far as we know he didn't, he would not be likely to pay much attention to such things--he was too wrapped up in survival and in himself, and he probably would have considered that kind of thing the purview of women anyway.

Her looking like Rhaegar while Jon looks like Lyanna is not a problem. Fraternal twins do not have to look alike. There are plenty of daughters who take after their fathers and sons who take after their mothers in the looks department. The age is close enough that as the baby gets older, fewer and fewer people would question it.

What happened to Ashara? Well maybe she went to Asshai to study so that someday she could be of help to TDtwP whether it was Jon or Dany, or someone else. She was in the inner circle at court. Surely she knew about Rhaegar's prophecy fixation.

Even without being Jon's twin, it's possible that Dany spent some time in Dorne at some point. She and Viserys, and Ser Willem had to move around. There is actually a good argument for NOT telling the Martells they were there...the fewer people who know, the fewer who can get in trouble for protecting you, or betray you to your enemies. They had no way of knowing if Doran and company would welcome the siblings of the man who walked out on his sister.

Darkstar can still be "the most dangerous man in Dorne" if they were ever at High Hermitage, or if HE was at the ToJ. It's been suggested that he might have been cousin Arthur's squire.

The biggest problem I have with your theory is that you present it so convincingly. But no, I don't think Dany and Jon are twins. This right here, is why we need the next book to be out.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

The biggest problem I have with your theory is that you present it so convincingly. But no, I don't think Dany and Jon are twins. This right here, is why we need the next book to be out.

I don't believe it either. I just like to show how things could maybe be possible without being totally nuts. Even theories that are wrong can be good theories. And yes, we really need TWoW. :D

[The Bastard of Walton]

I actually like the theory, but not sure. It's very "Star Wars" like, the whole Twin's kept apart. Viserys remembers Daenerys birth, I think he was eight or seven at the time & she remembers him with her in the House with the red door.

[The 999th Sword of Braavos]

kudos on a creative theory, and great catch on the lemon trees. but as many have mentioned, timeline didnt work out.

[The 999th Sword of Braavos]

also didnt someone in the Braavos storyline mention that braavosi had cut up all their trees, so now they specifically dont cut down their trees near the coast to protect against the winds and also because last trees on island. Because they had cut up all the trees in the city, they now have to import wood by barge. Conceviably, the lemon trees in Danys childhood were remnants of the trees in the city that the braavosi hadnt cut down yet but by the time we get to Arya being in Braavos all those trees have been cut down? Thus Arya not seeing lemon trees doesnt necessarily discount dany's childhood being in Braavos.

[Lord Damian]

no

[Lady Blizzardborn]

also didnt someone in the Braavos storyline mention that braavosi had cut up all their trees, so now they specifically dont cut down their trees near the coast to protect against the winds and also because last trees on island. Because they had cut up all the trees in the city, they now have to import wood by barge. Conceviably, the lemon trees in Danys childhood were remnants of the trees in the city that the braavosi hadnt cut down yet but by the time we get to Arya being in Braavos all those trees have been cut down? Thus Arya not seeing lemon trees doesnt necessarily discount dany's childhood being in Braavos.

Actually the text is that lemon trees won't grow that far north. It's not hot enough in Braavos for them. So either the Sealord's place has glass gardens and a source of heat, or Dany spent part of her childhood at least in Dorne.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

I've always found Rhaella's pregnancy with Dany to be suspicious. If Dany was conceived just before they fled to Dragonstone, then the true knowledge of her pregnancy would have been limited to a small household cut off from the mainland. In such a situation it would have been easy to swap babies, fake pregnancy, or some other ruse.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

If Dany is a Blackfyre or a Dayne and Aegon's the Targ, I quit. :)

[A Bastard Snow]

Actually the text is that lemon trees won't grow that far north. It's not hot enough in Braavos for them. So either the Sealord's place has glass gardens and a source of heat, or Dany spent part of her childhood at least in Dorne.

If the Starks could afford a glass garden the Sealord of Braavos could.

Also we are told (IIRC)) that Dorne couldnt take them in because if they did Robert would never rest until he killed them.Its the reason why Dorne has been so hush hush about everything cause if Robert even thought Dorne had some secret pact with the Dragonspawn he would invade them.

And as for the climate of Braavos GRRM meant it to have a...mediterranean climate but he placed it too far north and by the time he realized that it would not have a sub-tropical climate it was already too late to change it so he just went with it.

*Also children born 9 months apart (ish) at different places to different mothers can never be called twins*

[Lady Blizzardborn]

If Dany is a Blackfyre or a Dayne and Aegon's the Targ, I quit. :)

Nah. Dany is definitely a Targ. Aegon may be as well though.

If the Starks could afford a glass garden the Sealord of Braavos could.

Also we are told (IIRC)) that Dorne couldnt take them in because if they did Robert would never rest until he killed them.Its the reason why Dorne has been so hush hush about everything cause if Robert even thought Dorne had some secret pact with the Dragonspawn he would invade them.

<snip

Yes, I said that the Sealord could have a glass garden.

Just because Dorne couldn't take them in openly doesn't mean they couldn't have been hidden there for a while. The Martells wouldn't even have to have been involved. Could have been the Daynes, those Targ supporters.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

As far as I know it isn't possible for twins to be born 9 months apart.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

This. Specifically said by GRRM that they were born 8 to 9 months apart.

Also, this:

Is totally not how genetics works.

As to the lemon trees: they had money, and seem likely to have been protected by friendship with the Sealord of Braavos of that time. As rich people liked to do in history, placing pots with exotic plants (in this case the lemon tree) in your house, is completely normal. And so a lemon tree ended up in Braavos.

I completely agree Jon & Dany are not twins but I do think there may be something with the lemon tree. I don't buy that they were just rich & planted one. What is the point of even mentioning it then?