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The Nights King?


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#1 LordArryn

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 11:30 AM

I think it is pretty much confirmed that the Night's King was never killed just banished. In this last season, we see a white walker with a white crown, dressed all in black, with 12 other black robed white walkers behind him, before he touches craster's baby son.

 

This is the nights king of legend, I am almost certain of it. I know there are a lot of characters who are black and white in terms of morality, but I think its safe to say that after thousands of years of exile, and the atrocities he's committed when he was still human, the Night's King is pretty bad news.

 

I wonder though, just about his life. Was the beautiful white woman he fell in love with an actual female white walker? or are they genderless, and one just took the shape of a woman to seduce him?

 

What sort of atrocities did he commit? He sacrificed people I know, and it says he enslaved some. Enslaved them to do what? I am also surprised the King in the North of that time cared enough to stop him as well as the Wildling  King, unless of course his power was growing too great and he was becoming too monstrous..

 

Any thoughts on the once and future Nights' King?



#2 Lady Sansa Stark

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 11:40 AM

I have absolutely no idea, I usually let other people do the math for me. But, he does intrigue me, and of course he's bound to appear in the next two books. He committed atrocities, fell in love with a White Walker, and ruled like a true Night's King. The appearance in the series somewhat confused me, but I didn't really mind the possible spoilers. He's playing a game, and he is probably playing it well, but who he exactly is, what he wants to do, and how and when he is going to do it... No idea. I am sure the Heretics have some awesome theories about him though, you should look it up. :)



#3 LordArryn

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 11:41 AM

It seems like almost noone has talked about him or discussed in him in "Winds of Winter" threads.. Ill look it up though thanks!



#4 Lady Sansa Stark

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 11:45 AM

It seems like almost noone has talked about him or discussed in him in "Winds of Winter" threads.. Ill look it up though thanks!

I'm sure they've talked about him and possible spoilers in the tvseries-forum though; perhaps they didn't want to talk about him in the bookforum to keep books and tvseries separated. He appeared in the fourth episode, right? 



#5 RumHam

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 11:52 AM

I think it is pretty much confirmed that the Night's King was never killed just banished. In this last season, we see a white walker with a white crown, dressed all in black, with 12 other black robed white walkers behind him, before he touches craster's baby son.

 

That may have been the Night's King on the show, but we don't really know who called him that in the synopsis.  Most people assume it was removed because it was a spoiler, but it's equally possible it was removed because it was a mistake. It also could be the current "night's king" instead of the same man who was the thirteenth commander of the Night's Watch.   In any even the show is not the books, it's probably best not to draw conclusions about the book based on what happens on the show.



#6 A rose by any other name

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 12:01 PM

The "enslaved" people were probably killed and turned into Wights.

 

Why do you find it surprising that the King in the North and the King beyond the Wall would want to put a stop to him? They were both losing people to the Night's King and it was a danger to the integrity of the Nights Watch since the Night's King was once their Lord Commander. Also, The Night's King was the brother of the King in the North. If I were the King in the North, I wouldn't want anything to risk my family's name being associated with any of that. I'd take care of it as soon as I could.



#7 Twatbeards conspiracy

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 12:35 PM

I read in a thread when he first appeared that nights king may also have been the last hero, which I believe some have speculated may also have been a Stark, possibly even Brandon the Builder, also the last hero started off with 12 companions all who fell to the Others but its never said how, mayhaps they were the previous commanders of the NW whom were changed idk, but the number 13 appears significant in both stories we have read. Also Old Nan did say his name was Brandon Stark. Hurry up Grrm! Dammit think he just killed Arya lol

#8 eagleheart

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 02:17 PM

I think it is pretty much confirmed that the Night's King was never killed just banished. In this last season, we see a white walker with a white crown, dressed all in black, with 12 other black robed white walkers behind him, before he touches craster's baby son.

 

This is the nights king of legend, I am almost certain of it. I know there are a lot of characters who are black and white in terms of morality, but I think its safe to say that after thousands of years of exile, and the atrocities he's committed when he was still human, the Night's King is pretty bad news.

 

I wonder though, just about his life. Was the beautiful white woman he fell in love with an actual female white walker? or are they genderless, and one just took the shape of a woman to seduce him?

 

What sort of atrocities did he commit? He sacrificed people I know, and it says he enslaved some. Enslaved them to do what? I am also surprised the King in the North of that time cared enough to stop him as well as the Wildling  King, unless of course his power was growing too great and he was becoming too monstrous..

 

Any thoughts on the once and future Nights' King?

 

 

No atrocities are mentioned other than "sacrificing".   We saw what happens to sacrifices, their hearts aren't ripped out and eaten.  The sacrificee is merely turned into another White Walker.  The part about enslaving the Night's Watch sounds to me like how the victors of war would slander the losers like how Robert Baratheon would go around calling Rhaegar a monster while everyone else says he's a pretty cool dude.  



#9 eagleheart

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 02:18 PM

I read in a thread when he first appeared that nights king may also have been the last hero, which I believe some have speculated may also have been a Stark, possibly even Brandon the Builder, also the last hero started off with 12 companions all who fell to the Others but its never said how, mayhaps they were the previous commanders of the NW whom were changed idk, but the number 13 appears significant in both stories we have read. Also Old Nan did say his name was Brandon Stark. Hurry up Grrm! Dammit think he just killed Arya lol

 

Also the NK ruled for 13 yrs.



#10 Lady Blizzardborn

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 03:06 PM

Well Night's King, according to Old Nan

 

-was a Stark

-was a fearless warrior

-was LC of the Night's Watch (that's confirmed outside of Nan's story as well)

-fell in love with a woman whose description matches that of either an Other or a Wight

-married said woman, against his vows

-named himself king and his bride queen and took the Nightfort for their seat

-"when he gave her his seed, he gave her his soul" makes it sound like he was under her spell somehow, or wighted (note to self: should post Wighting Theory one of these days)

-was said to have committed atrocities, but no mention of what those atrocities were

-was a normal man by day and a monster by night, or something to that effect

-reigned for 13 years

-after he was defeated, Nan says it was found out he'd been sacrificing to the Others

 

We don't have any facts other than that.  The rest is conjecture until we get more.  So it's not confirmed that the one in the show was NK.  It's possible that he and his queen were both killed.  It's possible a new NK has risen up will rise up (Jon, Stannis, Gerold "of the night" Dayne).

 

Night's Queen is pretty much agreed to have been an Other.  There are theories about them lacking gender or them having no females, or only having one female, but again it's all conjecture.

 

As to enslaving people. I think that refers to the men of the Night's Watch being compelled to support his Kingship.  Granted at some point someone must have either left or someone outside the fort figured out something was going on and ratted out NK to KitN.

 

It's interesting that both KitN and KBtW worked together to end NK's reign.  Normally those two positions are enemies.  Of course we don't know for certain that the enmity was always the case between them.



#11 Roxy Carmichael

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 03:46 PM

Did I read somewhere that Ned's Valyrian steel blade is not the original "Ice" owned by the Starks?  If so, then maybe that's where the first Ice came from...

 

If the NK was a Stark, he may have been given a White Walker sword by his queen.  That would make it pretty easy to enslave men of the Night's Watch by turning them into wights.  Ice would certainly have been a fitting name, and the Starks of Winterfell would have gotten it after the NK's death.



#12 LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 04:01 PM

My crackpot take on this:

 

The Last Hero was Brandon Stark, the builder. Him and his twelve companions were the original founders of the NW, him being the 13th LC.. they traveled north to find the Children of the Forest..

 

The Children of the forest brokered a peace deal between both races, ending the Long Night. They built the wall as a way to separate the lands of the Others and those of the first men. The Last hero would marry an Other to seal the deal. He ruled for 13 years, in which he had twelve sons (those twelve Night´s watch others we saw in the TV show), and he crowned himself..and did all those terrible things.

 

His brother, the Stark of Winterfell took arms against him, and banished him north... he destroyed all records of his brother, ashamed of him, and changed the Nights wathc oath, so that no brother could marry, have children, take crowns, and win glory (the part of the oath that is missing in the Night´s gate oath)

 

The First Men broke the deal and for thousands of years the Others have been rising their army of sacrificed-babies turned into Others.

 

or not, and things just went the way we were told..



#13 Lady Blizzardborn

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 08:47 AM

My crackpot take on this:

 

The Last Hero was Brandon Stark, the builder. Him and his twelve companions were the original founders of the NW, him being the 13th LC.. they traveled north to find the Children of the Forest..

 

The Children of the forest brokered a peace deal between both races, ending the Long Night. They built the wall as a way to separate the lands of the Others and those of the first men. The Last hero would marry an Other to seal the deal. He ruled for 13 years, in which he had twelve sons (those twelve Night´s watch others we saw in the TV show), and he crowned himself..and did all those terrible things.

 

His brother, the Stark of Winterfell took arms against him, and banished him north... he destroyed all records of his brother, ashamed of him, and changed the Nights wathc oath, so that no brother could marry, have children, take crowns, and win glory (the part of the oath that is missing in the Night´s gate oath)

 

The First Men broke the deal and for thousands of years the Others have been rising their army of sacrificed-babies turned into Others.

 

or not, and things just went the way we were told..

A lot of us are connecting BtB as LH and/or NK lately.  I've been working on that for a while now.  The details vary.  I don't think the babies become full Others, just Otherized humans.  I'll try to get my Wighting Theory posted soon to explain my thoughts on this.



#14 Lady Blizzardborn

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 08:49 AM

Did I read somewhere that Ned's Valyrian steel blade is not the original "Ice" owned by the Starks?  If so, then maybe that's where the first Ice came from...

 

If the NK was a Stark, he may have been given a White Walker sword by his queen.  That would make it pretty easy to enslave men of the Night's Watch by turning them into wights.  Ice would certainly have been a fitting name, and the Starks of Winterfell would have gotten it after the NK's death.

Yes, you did.  The original Ice I think dates back to the Age of Heroes, which was before the Long Night we think.  The timeline gets fuzzy.  So it is possible that original Ice did come from the Other woman.



#15 The 999th Sword of Braavos

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:15 PM

The character shown with the crown touching craster's kid was in fact the Night's King. In fact HBO GO credited him as the Night's King. I will find an article if I can



#16 The 999th Sword of Braavos

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:17 PM

 

 

We don't have any facts other than that.  The rest is conjecture until we get more.  So it's not confirmed that the one in the show was NK.  

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/i8fQSMr.png HBO Description of the Episode



#17 Lady Blizzardborn

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:22 PM

The character shown with the crown touching craster's kid was in fact the Night's King. In fact HBO GO credited him as the Night's King. I will find an article if I can

 

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/i8fQSMr.png HBO Description of the Episode

I've seen that.  Even saw one that listed his name as Brandon Stark.  Score for Old Nan!

 

What we don't know is if that was really a big spoiler, or truly a mistake.  HBO has officially said that it was a mistake, not a spoiler--the difference being mistake = not true, and spoiler = true but we aren't supposed to know it yet.

 

Another thing we don't know is whether the show will mirror the books with regard to Night's King, or use their own take on it.  The books could have a new Night's King that the show doesn't use.  Could be a character they decided to cut becomes Night's King 2.0 so they decided to just bring back the first one.  Or it could be that the guy we saw was The Great Other, though admittedly he doesn't look like the Others.

 

So we're all pretty much just guessing for now.



#18 Marcus Agrippa

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:30 PM

Melisandre saw Blood raven and Bran (even if she didn't know it was them) as an enemy- It would be interesting if Blood raven was indeed working with the white walkers and the Night's King. The other side of story is that he is trying to crown Jon snow as king if you believe the raven was being warged by him the whole time. It creates a huge dilemma for us readers. Maybe he just wants to see the targs back in charge. I don't know. He might be one of the most puzzling people in the book. People did refer to him as a hero (or spoke decently of him at the very least) in the dunk and egg stories. As for the Night's King- I am not sure his idenity matters. Much like the pink lettter really. It's more of the conquences of his coming and goings will cause.



#19 RoamingRonin

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:50 PM

Any Lost fans here? Remember when Jacob's brother was listed as "Esau" on some TV guides and the internet exploded? Turns out it was a mistake, someone was just going off the biblical Jacob and Esau story and the internet ran with it.

Same thing happening here, I think.

Regardless, at least we got to see what happens to Craster's kids. I think we all knew but we just needed confirmation.

#20 Black Crow

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:51 PM

A lot of us are connecting BtB as LH and/or NK lately.  I've been working on that for a while now.  The details vary. 

 

The story of Brandon the Builder and the Last Hero are quite separate:

 

“I could tell you the story about Brandon the Builder,” Old Nan said. “That was always your favorite.”
Thousands and thousands of years ago, Brandon the Builder had raised Winterfell, and some said the Wall. Bran knew the story, but it had never been his favorite. 

 

But no, he wants a different story.

 

Incidentally its interesting that Bran knows him as the man who built Winterfell, "and some said the Wall". Its interesting because Bran himself clearly doesn't link his most famous ancestor with building the most famous structure in Westeros.