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Why the Lord of Harrenhal is not the most powerful in the riverlands ?


voltron

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The region seems heavily populated and fertile, and there's a town near the castle, Harrentown. It's hard to believe that a lord who control a town and a big castle who was owned by a king can't fielded more men than the Freys or the Tullys.

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I'd say the constant changing of lords has something to do with it, plus the cost to maintain the castle.



We don't know how many men they can field because in the series they were taken out of the war really early.


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I know but House frey can gather 5000 men with just a castle with no town, but Harrenhal can't do that, mathematically that's impossible.

House Frey has pretty extensive lands. They also have House Charlton, House Haigh and House Erenford sworn to them, all lordly houses if I'm not mistaken.

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The position of Lord of Harrenhal is a big one indeed. The attendant lands are large and fertile, as the castle basically commands everything around the God's Eye. It commands a central position in Westeros, overlooking major river crossings and the crossroads between the Vale, North, Westerlands, and Crownlands.



In the end though, you have to remember how feudalism works. The only people who fight for you are the ones who believe they have to, or want to. It's a seat just as strong, if not stronger, than the Twins, with good lands besides, but the houses that have commanded it in recent times have all been very weak. Around the time of the Dance of the Dragons, the Strongs of Harrenhal were in a big position, with some serious pull and push in the realm, but a seat is only as strong as its lord. No one wanted to fight for an old done Lady Whent.



Likewise, we do have an example that the Whents were rich in their heyday, what with the Tournament at Harrenhall being the biggest event of a generation.



So right, Harrenhal. Awesome seat, wealthy and powerful, but kiiiiinda cursed, and a dying house is a weak house.


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it is still a very valuable and prestigious seat but Harrenhal is a ruin and expensive to maintain. Lady Whent only used a very small portion for her household if I recall. That's what puts Riverrun and the Twins above it. If someone was willing to invest in the castle to restore it I'm sure it would become more influential.


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The region seems heavily populated and fertile, and there's a town near the castle, Harrentown. It's hard to believe that a lord who control a town and a big castle who was owned by a king can't fielded more men than the Freys or the Tullys.

It is possible that the Tully and Frey lands are just as large, if not bigger. We know that there are villages on the Blue Fork that are under Frey control. That is a huge tract of land.

Stability seems to be a problem as I'm sure that the Strongs seemed to be one of the most powerful Families during the time of Jaehaerys and Viserys. But maintaining that strength needs strong leadership.

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Because the Houses whp owned Harrenhal all were on a rollercoaster of influence and prosperity, with the current Lady Whent being on the downswing.





I know but House frey can gather 5000 men with just a castle with no town, but Harrenhal can't do that, mathematically that's impossible.




Doesn't matter one whiff if there is a town about or not. Land, people and income matter, but a town, a town wouldn't even yield 50 men. More like 15 and that's already a sizeable town.


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Harrenhal at it´s height of glory could field a lot I´m sure. Even more than the Tullys possibly at some point, it´s not that uncommon for a bannerman to be able to gather a larger host than his liegelord, although of course he´d have to fight for his lord.


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I have always considered the Lord of Harrenhal to be automatically the second most powerful lord after the Lord of Riverrun in the Riverlands.. I mean, pass holders of the castle and its lands have all been very powerful lords in their prime.. House Harroway when it ruled Harrenhal produced a Hand of the King and a Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, House Strong when it ruled Harrenhal was a powerful force to reckon with during the Dance of the Dragons and that their wealth was "not-inconsiderable" according to Archmaester Gyldayn.. House Lothson during their tenure as Lords of Harrenhal was among the most powerful lords in Westeros and have forever made their mark in the history and myths of the Seven Kingdoms.. During the peak of their wealth and prestige, House Whent who then ruled Harrenhal was considered the most powerful vassal of House Tully who displayed their wealth and power by holding the Tourney at Harrenhal, said to be the great tourney in the history of the Seven Kingdoms..



But what makes the rulers who Harrenhal great lords is also what makes them fall overtime.. The castle itself is impossibly expensive to maintain and even a very wealthy house would one day find itself at the very end of its means to maintain it (probably unless you control a gold or silver mine or you have your own city which produces lucrative amount of money in a stable manner)..


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I'd say the constant changing of lords has something to do with it, plus the cost to maintain the castle.

We don't know how many men they can field because in the series they were taken out of the war really early.

And the fact that every Lord who has held Harrenhal has been killed and his line died out completely, except for Littlefinger who hasn't died yet (hopefully Sansa will take care of that )

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I agree with other posters that it is the cost to maintain the castle along with the curse.

:agree: I'd agree with the poster that agrees with the other posters :P . But seriously its the cost of the upkeep of the castle plus the influence of the lord themselves in this lady whent. The curse has nothing to do with how many troops that house can field.

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And the fact that every Lord who has held Harrenhal has been killed and his line died out completely, except for Littlefinger who hasn't died yet (hopefully Sansa will take care of that )

Janos Slynt's son is still alive and a squire at the Red Keep, so that line hasn't died out yet. If the curse applies only to people who actually take possession of the castle, then Littlefinger's safe.

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The Princess and the Queen implies that they were the de facto rulers of the Riverlands, at least under House Strong.




Which left only the riverlords, a notoriously quarrelsome lot ruled over, in name at least, by House Tully of Riverrun.


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1.) It was built as the seat of an extinct house that was disliked by the Riverlanders



2.) While it has a strong legacy, it's a heap of rubble of little real worth



3.) Its owners keep meeting disaster



The real question is how Riverrun usurped the Twins, when the Freys had far more valuable land.


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The Princess and the Queen implies that they were the de facto rulers of the Riverlands, at least under House Strong.

I didn't read that as the Riverlands being de facto under House Strong, just a confirmation that coordinating the riverlords was like herding cats. Not too unlike the current situation.

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I didn't read that as the Riverlands being de facto under House Strong, just a confirmation that coordinating the riverlords was like herding cats. Not too unlike the current situation.

GRRM also said the Whents were the wealthiest and most powerful of Tully's bannermen.

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I didn't read that as the Riverlands being de facto under House Strong, just a confirmation that coordinating the riverlords was like herding cats. Not too unlike the current situation.

Yeah, that is a possibility. Given Harrenhal's presence the story (holding it seems to equal "holding the Riverlands" at least symbolically) I think my interpretation is the correct one. But then I guess just about everybody thinks their interpretation is the correct one.

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