RumHam Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Lord Edmyn Tully led a successful rebellion against Harren the Black way before Harren lost against Aegon. Indeed, it was this very rebellion that forced Harren to retreat into his castle, with Aegon only needing to burn him out. Lord Edmyn Tully made himself the Lord of the native Riverlanders. Aegon just rubberstamped it. That's the reason the Tullys are more respected than the Tyrells, by the way. That makes sense. I think that the Tullys were never stewards is also probably part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 The region seems heavily populated and fertile, and there's a town near the castle, Harrentown. It's hard to believe that a lord who control a town and a big castle who was owned by a king can't fielded more men than the Freys or the Tullys. The Lord who had the resources to build Harrenhal, of course, would be the most powerful Lord in the riverlands, but the Lords who was granted the debris of the Harrenhal do not necessary have this kind of resources, hence, they are not the most powerful Lords in the riverland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willofDorne Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 If it were run by a great House with a long tradition and many lords who would swear fealty, yes. But as we've seen, proximity to a castle doesn't guarantee fealty from a lord. It's possible someone like Littlefinger could raise Harrenhal into a great castle as his own House gains influence, but who knows. It might be a job better suited to some other House with more tradition. In any event, that castle has been cursed since the day it was completed and is not likely to be of any consequence other than the sort of exchanges we've seen so far. Even Littlefinger seems more wont to cast aside this ambitious task and marry into Winterfell, possibly even pawning off Harrenhal on someone else in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Harrenhal might make an excellent place for a regional capital, but for the matter of a curse and royal favour going to the Tullys and therefore Riverrun.However, in terms of economics, remember that the rivers are probably where most trade happens. Harrenhal is at the edge of the God's Eye, and Riverrun dominates the western Riverlands. The Twins are important, but more like for choking things off near The Neck (no doubt they have a long rivalry with Seagard and Greywater Watch). The best place to rule the Trident & Riverlands from around Lord Harroway's Town, which I suppose Harrenhal might have been in a position to control. However, the fortress itself is too big to be a mere lord's seat - nothing less then the overlord of a kingdom or even a king makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Harrenhal has been a power player at some times but not others. The Strongs were very important during the time of Viserys I, and the Whents were big enough to throw the greatest tourney ever in 281 AC and were probably the most powerful Tully bannermen at the time Hoster Tully wed Minisa Whent, but between 281 and 298 the curse kicked in and the family dwindled down to Lady Shella, who was forced to yield the castle when Tywin came knocking and later died in exile. Most of the men sworn to Harrenhal were likely killed in the early stages of the Wot5K as Tywin swept through their lands and Jaime chewed through the Tully host in the battles of the Golden Tooth and Riverrun. In AFFC Jaime notes that the lands of the brothers Wode, two landed knights sworn to Harrenhal, have been despoiled and their halls burned to the ground by his father's men. The area around the God's Eye, which is ruled by Harrenhal, was wholly despoiled by Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Not That Littlefinger Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 i think it has a lot to do with the families controlling it. if a strong, able lord was there, he would do a better job of controlling his people and lands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Very interesting! Source? I know the wiki is not canon. It was from the WoIAF spoilers released last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 If I were Lord I would just start tearing the castle down and sell the stones I don't need to build a more maintainable keep. If I were the next King, I would tear Harrenhal down and use the stone to erect a new city, perhaps without a lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KING-OF-WINTERFELL Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 If I were Lord I would just start tearing the castle down and sell the stones I don't need to build a more maintainable keep. If I were the next King, I would tear Harrenhal down and use the stone to erect a new city, perhaps without a lord. Actually I think it is maintainable, I think it's outer wall is about the size of Malbork's and that was maintainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Actually I think it is maintainable, I think it's outer wall is about the size of Malbork's and that was maintainable. I wouldn't know ;) But in the world of the books it certainly isn't maintainable, the cost of the wood to warm the great hall alone already puts a serious strain on a Lord's finances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KING-OF-WINTERFELL Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Sorry veltiger but I have to send this via mobile, anyway you're probably right there is a difference between real world and asoiaf world realism cause I had imagine the great hall of her rental to be Westminster baby size... maybe a small Lord won't though I can't help but think a king or LP might be able to afford it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I wouldn't know ;) But in the world of the books it certainly isn't maintainable, the cost of the wood to warm the great hall alone already puts a serious strain on a Lord's finances. Not to mention the cost for maintenance and repairs. Actually I think it is maintainable, I think it's outer wall is about the size of Malbork's and that was maintainable. Malbork was originally not the domain of a single lord, but the Order of Teutonic Knights who had access to resources from outside the manor to maintain the castle as well as a monopoly on the amber trade and tolls on river traffic. I think we must remember Harrenhal was not meant to be the seat of single lord, but a king who had the resources of the Iron Isles and the riverlands to maintain and garrison it. The resources of the lands directly under the dominion of Harrenhal aren't enough to sustain the castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KING-OF-WINTERFELL Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Not to mention the cost for maintenance and repairs. Malbork was originally not the domain of a single lord, but the Order of Teutonic Knights who had access to resources from outside the manor to maintain the castle as well as a monopoly on the amber trade and tolls on river traffic. I think we must remember Harrenhal was not meant to be the seat of single lord, but a king who had the resources of the Iron Isles and the riverlands to maintain and garrison it. The resources of the lands directly under the dominion of Harrenhal aren't enough to sustain the castle. You right about the TK and malbork, but a LP of the Riverlands only will be able to maintain to its full extent, or a king would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae Boleyn Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 The real Harrenhal question is, why in the name of the gods did they not tear the damn thing down and rebuild it? The cost of that would be high, but less than the upkeep over time, I'd imagine. With a little less to maintain, then maybe the lords could have gained and kept more power in the Riverlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Because everyone has been dumb enough to live in Harrenhal. Though Littlefinger seem to have a better idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bedding Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 If the curse applies only to people who actually take possession of the castle, then Littlefinger's safe.Did Slynt take possession of the castle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor227 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Did Slynt take possession of the castle? No, but at the same time, he still has a living son, so his line is currently continuing. Come to think of it, he has two sons. His death seemed more like 'death by being an idiot', not 'death by some kind of freaky ghost-accident', like the mystery fire that damaged House Strong at Harrenhal. Also, Tywin Lannister was never Lord of Harrenhal in title, likewise with Lorch. They died after taking possession of the castle though. Alternatively, the whole thing is superstition, and going through all of six houses in three-hundred years isn't really that bad. It's not exactly the thousand-plus year dynasties of the Starks/Arryns/Lannisters/Martells, but at the same time, the Gardeners died out pretty easily. A plague at the wrong time and a house goes extinct, it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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